[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Bat33.1]

Did the VIII legion get any extra RoW from book 6?

 

How do you use your terror squads in a TA list are they able to infiltrate or are they purely a drop podding list alternative build? I seem to recall something saying they can infiltrate or am I mistaken?

[Terminus]

Yes, they got the generic Drop Assault Vanguard, which works great with their rules.

 

For unique rite they got Horror Cult, which is raptors as troops IIRC.

 

Terror squads can infiltrate which precludes joining independent characters to them. Although it's still a strong rule and does give you the option of transporting them around in a Rhino instead of a Pod, which could take some anti tank weapons.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Terminus

[Bat33.1]

Yes, they got the generic Drop Assault Vanguard, which works great with their rules.

 

For unique rite they got Horror Cult, which is raptors as troops IIRC.

 

Terror squads can infiltrate which precludes joining independent characters to them. Although it's still a strong rule and does give you the option of transporting them around in a Rhino instead of a Pod, which could take some anti tank weapons.

 

Thanks Terminus. I have the new red books but the legion one is the digital version and I don't find them as easy to look through. I couldn't find a refrence to taking Rhino's in that for the terror squads, it says dreadclaws and legion drop pods as part of the TA are DDT but maybe I missed something?

[Terminus]

Ah to be completely honest I don't recall off the top of my head their default options other than dreadclaws. If they don't have Rhinos as an option, then scratch what I said! It's suboptimal anyway. There's actually a good discussion going on about pods in the list subforum.

[helterskelter]

Horror cult get kharybdis as a dedicated transport for units of 10 or more

Terror assault get regular drop pods and dread claw for terror squads, vets, and tactical (provided the unit size matches capacity)

[SchultzChaos]

Glaives are a trap on a unit with one attack base. Just sprinkle in a couple of axes or swords, give the Sgt the standard power fist. The attached apothecary can carry a sword too.

 

Has FW errated Night Raptors so the Huntmaster can take a power fist now?

[Terminus]

 

Glaives are a trap on a unit with one attack base. Just sprinkle in a couple of axes or swords, give the Sgt the standard power fist. The attached apothecary can carry a sword too.

 

Has FW errated Night Raptors so the Huntmaster can take a power fist now?

LOL, that's strike two against me for Night Lord special units. First Terror Squad transports, now Raptor options. Shows how often I looked at this unit after the first read, though. Eesh, they are worse than I thought.  Just use the cool models as Assault Marines in Drop Assault Vanguard!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Raptors are definitely worse than normal Assault marines now, but because I love me some over priced deathstars, here's a list for everyone 

 

+++ New Roster (2982pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Age of Darkness) (2982pts) ++

 

+ HQ (447pts) +

 

Flaymaster Mawdrym Llansahai (135pts)

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Centurion (177pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Nostraman Chainglaive, 3x Phosphex Bombs, Teleportation Transponder, Volkite Charger]

····Consul [siege Breaker]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Centurion (135pts) [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Thunder Hammer]

····Consul

········Herald

············Rite of Command [Master of the Legion]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Troops (910pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (280pts) [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade, Trophies of Judgement]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad (215pts) [4x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns, Trophies of Judgement]

····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Night Raptor Squad (415pts) [9x Night Raptor, 4x Nostraman Chainglaive, 5x Pair of Lightning Claws]

····Huntmaster [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Nostraman Chainglaive]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Elites (520pts) +

 

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (270pts) [Phosphex Canister Shot, Shatter Shell]

····Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Terminator Squad (250pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 4x Combi-Weapon, 4x Legion Terminators, Teleportation Transponder, Trophies of Judgement]

····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Heavy Support (670pts) +

 

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship (230pts) [Four Hellstrike Missiles, Reaper Autocannon battery]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (440pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Traitor, VIII: Night Lords]

 

+ Lord of War (435pts) +

 

Konrad Curze (435pts) [Primarch]

····Master of the Legion [Horror Cult]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Pretty nice win; would have been 10-0 if my 3 terminators hadn't lost combat to 4 vets but oh well, 9-3 is still fairly comprehensive.

 

The leviathan is still incredibly hard to kill even with shooting into the pod and facings (how we're playing it anyways) and put enough pressure to make half the enemy army irrelevant. Curze and the boys are really hard to kill without a lot of Ignores Cover and they pretty much rampaged up and held an objective at the end. Quad mortars, plasma support and fire raptor was enough to hold the other half of the board 

[SchultzChaos]

Okay okay. After some tinkering. Should I maybe switch the Night Raptors for a Command Squad for the Jump Pack Praetor and the Librarian? 

What units should I focus on for a Terror Assault (except for Terror Squads) to work? I don't play with Primarchs, so Curze is a no no.

Right now I got a Leviathan kitted for cc in a drop pod, a veteran squad in a drop pod with meltas and tank hunter, three Terror Squads (10x2 and one unit of 5).

[Terminus]

Jump pack command squad way too expensive. They end up like 50+ points a guy.

[Charlo]

15 points a pack is just silly. I could stomach 10.

 

Same as how jetbikes are 35 when they already have a 2+....

[SchultzChaos]

No Command Squad then.

What should I take? Some Tacticals to hog objectives? Should I get pods for all of the Terror Squads? Should I drop the melta-kit on Veterans and go full Close Combat?

Oh yeah! I'm also assembling 10 Terminators (5x2) for teleportation with the pods.

[SkimaskMohawk]

If you have a levi and drop vets only get 1 terror marine pod. The levi should probably have grav bombard and Siege drill at the very least; pure melee is a waste for such strong shooting potential.

[Terminus]

All the terror squads should ideally be in a pod. You could put a minimum sized squad on foot to benefit from a 4+ cover save or better if you play it as "at any time if no models = game ends", but otherwise I prefer my units to not be in the open during the first exchange of firepower (unless again they are surgically delivered to key targets). Outflanking for a 6" move with 12" guns is not advisable.

 

Shame they can't take a rhino, but another way Terror Assault is better than Orbital Assault is that you can take a Damocles and put them in there (although then you can't infiltrate).

[SkimaskMohawk]

Why skew the ratio to have to bring a unit in turn 1? If the point of them is purely to survive and grab objectives just throw the other two in Reserve or outflank. There's no reason to put all three in pods if you don't need the ratio at 7

[helterskelter]

You don't have to pod the terror squads at all. The only thing that worries them T1 is a typhon and even then if you go first that lev in a pod can come down and blow it apart.

Cover plus cover of darkness, which you can see in by the way, gives us terror assault players a nice little advantage we should make the most of

[Terminus]

I already covered why you don't want to put functional units into reserves without a pod, their threat range is too short from the board edge. Whatever the special rules attached, relying on footslogging and infiltrate to get to your target with 12" guns is a fool's errand.  Under no circumstances do I want to expose my squishy power armoured units to enemy fire before I get a chance to shoot or stab them first (the latter may not be an option if they down your Dreadclaw).  A 4+ cover save still means you lose half the guys. A phosphex or scorpius volley will reap a heavy toll regardless. 

[helterskelter]

Why wouldn't I want my troop killing troop choice on the board, available to kill troops once I'd used my armour killing stuff to reveal gooey centres.

Sicaran, dual kheres contemptor and 5 grav speeders can easily be in range T1 given there's a 2 foot gap between deployment zones in most cases, I'm gonna say I could probably write off at least 1 rhino, get my troops into a position to claim any early VPs and make the opponent rethink what's going on.

Your way of playing isn't by any means the only way to play, and sure it might be effective for you because that's how you've perfected your play style, but this is a tactics thread and multiple options with their pros and cons should be established to give people a more balanced view.

I prefer to footslog/infiltrate. You gave the cons, let's discuss the pro points because it isn't wrong and it won't auto lose you matches.

[Terminus]

You don't want them on the board because they will die. You don't want them on the table because they may not reach the target. You only have 1 heavy support unit, so there aren't too many other big scary things to distract enemy firepower. :P

 

I don't understand why you are taking such a hostile and defensive tone, I didn't poop in your cornflakes. By all means, discuss the pros if there any beyond a 35-point saving per unit, but all you've offered is "yeah, but that's just like, your opinion man". Yes, yes it is. An opinion on a forum, imagine that. Take it as you will, it's nothing more beyond that.

[helterskelter]

You took a fair bit out of a blank, unaccentuated wall of text...

Opinion on a forum man.

 

Let's see why we should have Terror Squads on the board:

If you infiltrate you've got 15 to 30 s5 2 shot guns 18 inches away from any given enemy, given they deploy last, and can take advantage of the fact, and minimum the squad needs to move to be in range to shoot is 3 inches.

If that's an infantry choice you're facing down (which preferably it should be, however high shot volume does not exclude the unit from attempting to glance light armour to death) preferred enemy means more shots are connecting so on an so forth and a threat can be eliminated before it can do anything.

Put apothecaries with them with augury scanners for intercept and fnp on top of the cover saves, more survive being shot at.

Utilised tactically you can also force your opponent into situations, having up to 3 squads(assuming you haven't bought more) in his or her face so early that have a modicum of survivability, might have them change tack.

Of course you run the risk of being shot at, not every army contains scorpius, phosphex or typhon however, and you can adapt to suit given outflank is an option.

And yeah you save up to 105 point's not buying pods. So that's your apothecaries nearly paid for.

[Terminus]

I judge a list by what I would be bringing with another army and whether I would find the new list threatening.

 

1. Other things can infiltrate and seize the initiative is a thing. My Alphas out infiltrate, my Reductor blocks with Thallax. Without a transport or adaptive scout move, you could well start the game 18" away from enemy guns.

i

2. Preferred enemy has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

3. 15" guns that are S5 do not make for good intercepting platform but pod squads can also take apothecaries.

4. If a list doesn't have a template/volume component, it's not a take all comer list. You need it for dealing with massed bodies and for spot removal. Terror assaults are ironically partially in this category, although the volkite deals with volume quite well, it doesn't have spot removal capability without pods. I guess at least bring some quad mortars.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Flint13
Keep it classy plz

[Bat33.1]

You took a fair bit out of a blank, unaccentuated wall of text...

Opinion on a forum man.

 

Let's see why we should have Terror Squads on the board:

If you infiltrate you've got 15 to 30 s5 2 shot guns 18 inches away from any given enemy, given they deploy last, and can take advantage of the fact, and minimum the squad needs to move to be in range to shoot is 3 inches.

If that's an infantry choice you're facing down (which preferably it should be, however high shot volume does not exclude the unit from attempting to glance light armour to death) preferred enemy means more shots are connecting so on an so forth and a threat can be eliminated before it can do anything.

Put apothecaries with them with augury scanners for intercept and fnp on top of the cover saves, more survive being shot at.

Utilised tactically you can also force your opponent into situations, having up to 3 squads(assuming you haven't bought more) in his or her face so early that have a modicum of survivability, might have them change tack.

Of course you run the risk of being shot at, not every army contains scorpius, phosphex or typhon however, and you can adapt to suit given outflank is an option.

And yeah you save up to 105 point's not buying pods. So that's your apothecaries nearly paid for.

 

Interesting stuff  for a neophyte like me helterskelter and alternative ideas from Terminus - thanks. Can I just clear up something with you? Apothecries are fine for attaching to units and picking up special rules, infiltrate for example, but IC's cannot do the same?

 

Does Severtar have a role in TA or is a generic IC a better HQ option? As Severtar cannot infiltrate how do you prevent him getting shot off the board without being able to skulk with a terror squad?

[helterskelter]

I judge a list by what I would be bringing with another army and whether I would find the new list threatening.

 

1. Other things can infiltrate and seize the initiative is a thing. My Alphas out infiltrate, my Reductor cockblocks wirh Thallax. Without a transport or adaptive scout move, you could well start the game 18" away from enemy guns. Also didn't the rules forum determine 18" away is not the same thing as within 18", so you can't shoot them after moving first turn.

 

2. Preferred enemy has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

3. 12" guns that are S5 do not make for good intercepting platform but pod squads can also take apothecaries.

1) true but by your previous statements why would they be on the table ;)

 

2) it's a pro to having terror squads on the table, so it does

 

3) 15" range on those guns

 

Edit: pj apothecaries have a special ruleset allowing them to join squads so that's why they can do it (unless you took a vigilator in scout armour of course)

Edited September 2, 2016 by helterskelter

[Terminus]

Caught my error about range above. PE applies any time they are attacking, it is irrelevant when discussing delivery methods.

 

As for why they are on the table, Alphas infiltrate with terminators, artillery and transports. Thallax are T5 with 3 wounds. They aren't as threatened by phosphex or scorpius missiles.

 

You seem to be conflating my argument to "anything that is deployed will die", while I'm specifically talking about powered armoured T4 infantry (I.e. Fodder), in this case with 15" guns and costing 25+ points per model.

 

So to summarize pod benefits:

1. Alpha strike

2. Facilitate podded dreadnoughts and dreadclaw combat units

3. Big intervening model to provide cover and divide enemy forces.

 

To summarize walking benefits:

You save 35 points.

You get 10 guys plus apothecary instead of 9 guys plus apothecary.

 

My only wish is that their infiltrate worked like the Headhunters', and went away if they took a dedicated transport.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Terminus