[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Brother Aiwass]

Then it's FW fault for saying thing and making the rules opposite.

[Kol Saresk]

Except they didn't make the rules opposite. They made a specific Rite of War which is completely optional, and depending on the points level or how the list is made, useless since a ten-man Terror Squad will only get the +1W if it attacks a squad that is neither Bulky nor Very Bulky that has been severely depleted. The RoW is there so if we want to, we can go the extra mile in making a fluffy army. We still have every option available to do things from an all Jump Pack army to an armoured claw to basically whatever we want depending on the FOC we decide to use and whatever RoW we decide to use, if we even decide to use a RoW. Honestly, I don't see the point to binding ourselves to one specific core list when we have so many options and it is so easy to make them fluffy and effective. This is Forgeworld's Horus Heresy, not Codex: Chaos Space Marines 3.5.

[Verity]

I don't know why it took me so long to clock onto that being a fair point, lol. The Rite of War is just a particular way of doing things...And a fairly restrictive one. It only reflects one facet of the Legion's methodology in regards to waging war, and our Legion would have a damned massive spectrum in ways of waging war.

 

Strangely liberating, that.

 

EDIT: Please note I'm not saying that the Rite of War is useless, and we should all abandon it. Indeed, I'll probably build a Rite of War force in addition to my own seperate force, as I actually quite like what it represents in terms of tactics and strategy...Just that for some reason, my mind was taking it as the only way to go.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Verity

[Kol Saresk]

Look at the Legiones Astartes(Night Lords) rules. The only tactic they favor is overrunning the enemy with numbers. Not exactly Night Lord-ish. Heresy-era Night Lords are about overwhelming force through precision and the reveling in orchestrating and using that force to utterly dominate an opponent. As long as that method of warfare is achieved, it can be done through armored assault, terror tactics, or even setting up ambush points to funnel the enemy into predetermined kill-zones to be crushed by artillery bombardment.

 

EDIT: On the topic of tactics, what are the pluses and drawbacks of the rotor cannons? And what about Tarantula Sentry Guns? Are they an option? Could Javelin Attack Speeders with Cyclone missiles and a Multi-Melta be of any use? I ask out of ignorance of playing the game, but each of these seem like they could have strengths in places, so if possible, i would like to learn where those places are.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Flint13

[AfroCampbell]

yes, let me clarify that I didn't mean we dont have melta, but ranged Anti-armour is wat i meant is lacking :)

I like the idea of using the tarantulas actually.... 

hmmm someone with a book, (mine is in the mail atm) how much for them with lascannons and is it elite slot or fortification or what?

[Kais Klip]

 

See I'd say the outnumbering tactic is more at home with the Luna Wolves; the benefits from their traits increase inline with by how much their outnumber the enemy. The night lords, on the other hand, simply need to outnumber the enemy by one man to get their bonus. So what they are about is strategic allocation of resources; just enough to get the bonus/brutha but not so much you are outnumbered elsewhere/attract the five-o. Going back to your point, the night lords aren't for loosing ten battle brothers on a lone legionarie to tear him apart and guarantee a kill, but rather only sending two so that one holds him in place while the other drives the shiv in.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Flint13

[depthcharge12]

I think the whole talent for murder thing just tries to represent the gangland aspect instead of large numbers.

 

 

I mean come on....the night lords are not the most lion hearted and would rather attack small groups in hit and run attacks rather than stand and fight situations.

 

I believe thats what the rule is supposed to represent - picking on relatively smaller squads.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Flint13

[Verity]

Brain's a tad sluggish at the moment as it's late, but the Javelin Attack Speeders could actually be quite nice, now that I think about it. Outflanking them'll give your enemy something nasty to deal with on their flank, and we do have a HQ who helps Outlflankers...For anyone that doesn't know, incidentally, Javelin Attack Speeders do have their rules out on Forgeworld's website.

 

We can take the Book 1 Rites of War, am I correct?

[TheForgottenAngel]

Do terror squads and raptors have hit and run? I could see that being a really cool representation of the night lords tactics.

[Kol Saresk]

Not that I've heard.

 

Brain's a tad sluggish at the moment as it's late, but the Javelin Attack Speeders could actually be quite nice, now that I think about it. Outflanking them'll give your enemy something nasty to deal with on their flank, and we do have a HQ who helps Outlflankers...For anyone that doesn't know, incidentally, Javelin Attack Speeders do have their rules out on Forgeworld's website.

 

We can take the Book 1 Rites of War, am I correct?

Yes.

[AfroCampbell]

the only thing is the price of those speeders. I don't complain about the pricing of ANYTHING, in fact i think its kinda good at encouraging just the hardcores... except the price of a Javelin i will complain. It is the same price as a land raider in New Zealand almost (very close).

[TheForgottenAngel]

But the Landspeeder is just so darn good looking! I almost bought one to convert into a Landspeeder Vengeance.

[GhostMalone]

I wanted 3.... Have to wait some time till that happens

[Kol Saresk]

So yeah, anybody remember what they said about negating the -1 modifiers and saves that the Iron Hands and Salamanders have?

[Brother Aiwass]

I was doing the numbers for a 10 man terror squad equiped with 10
volkite chargers and taking in account regular power armor saves. I'm
not a math person so please, if you find anything wrong I'll appreciate
if you point it/correct it.

Volk Charger, assault 2.
10 marines firing

Shots - 20
hits - 13,33333
PE hits - 4.44444
total hits - 17.77777
wounds - 11.85184
PE wounds - 3.95062
total wounds - 15.80246
saved wounds - 10.53497
unsaved wounds - 5.26749
deflagrate hits (auto) - 5.26749
deflagrate wounds - 3.51166
saved DW - 2.3411
unsaved DW - 1.17056
total unsaved/models killed - 6.43805

So
that's 90,1327 points back, and 6-7 marines dead in a turn plus a
panic/morale test. That's 90% efficiency (if I did well, and I'm also
aware that points back means nothing, but it is for number pourposes) in
getting points back and 32% efficiency in killing MEQ.

Then the quesition -if I did well, ofc- is: As expensive as is the VC, it's worth the points in a mathhammer/competitive point of view?

[Verity]

So yeah, anybody remember what they said about negating the -1 modifiers and saves that the Iron Hands and Salamanders have?

I think there was something about Close Combat and weapons with high enough strength that they don't matter?

[Kais Klip]

Trust me when I say that I, too, want to see it in action...Above everything, effectiveness, efficiency etc...The idea of playing a full out Night Lord force just appeals to me so much. VIII Legion is just so damn attractive.

 

Also, anyone know whether Night Lords have a preference to Cataphractii or standard TDA?

If you're looking for some fluff back up, one of the Massacre NL page backgrounds has a very nice bare face photoshopped onto Cataphractii armour. One with a burning background I believe. Not that that helps.

[depthcharge12]

If I were to drop some terror squads with volkite chargers, which would you guys recommend?

 

 

Are dreadclaws or drop pods better?

[Elazar The Glorified]

Drop Pods for the Drop pod assault rule so you can be getting some on the board and shooting asap. I'm unconvinced by the Dreadclaws as like a Storm Eagle etc you're talking about Turn 3 assaults minimim and the risk of vector lock etc but without the guns to make it useful earlier so you might as well stick to the safety of a regular pod to my mind

[Balthamal]

For the terror squads you've got infiltrate to fall back on as well remember

[Verity]

Can we talk a bit more about the Primarch and best usage of him? He seems like he could do well so long as you pick your targets well - his ranged weapon especially seems like it could be good for picking off a HQ before moving in for the bodyguard, or a good invulnerable save squad. He lost a bit of ranking in my eyes from the fact that it is possible to lock him down in combat - his armour only grants him Hit and Run when he charges from my reading of it, although you can mitigate this effect with the Angel's Wrath Rite of War...

 

Thoughts? Seems like it'd be prudent to keep him clear from most enemy Primarchs unless you're going in with an advantage (how very thematic...), but he does have amazing abilities for infantry and HQs...

 

 

EDIT: Also, am I the only one compelled to give all my Night Lords bizarre little titles, after reading Massacre? I quite like the idea that they all did that as one of their weird little quirks...

Edited October 28, 2013 by Verity

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, for the most part, I see sticking Curze with a CC-support squad and then using him as a linebreaker, targeting ICs and then mowing down the rest. When going against other Primarchs or even serious HQ units, bring in support.

 

EDIT: Nope. Definitely calling my guy the Headsman.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Kol_Saresk

[Elazar The Glorified]

Konrad doesn't have grenades I noticed too so he's definitely his sons' father and needs to pick the unfair fights where possible. I'm finding it tempting to run him solo as a big scary distraction for my opponent turn 1 and then bounce him between easy combats around the centre their battleline to try and get the most out of all his AOE psychology shenanigans too

[Verity]

 

Aye, that is a factor I keep forgetting to put in - his ability to make many units Fall Back, even if unlikely at times, still represents good disruption potential. In 30k, Fear at -3 isn't quite something to laugh at, either.

 

Damn Salamanders and their lack of Fear, though...

 

Also, the Headsman is a cool name. Quite like Terror Squads model names in general, actually.

 

Has anyone thought about the potential of dropping RoW altogether and running an allied detachment at all? Or is that just a bit too unecessary?

 

Also, the Pride of the Legion RoW...anyone feel like running that with Sevatar at the head?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Verity

[Kol Saresk]

I almost have to wonder what a jump pack list with allied Ashen Circle or Death Guard units would be like. Or maybe something with a Mechanicum detachment. Get hose Castellax in there!