[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Erren]

I'm kind of waiting to see the actual rules, not just a summary. Are Gal Vorbak compulsory? Are they scoring? Can other troops still be taken? Do the Gal Vorbak have to take a pod, or can they use their natural DS rule? Still some answers I haven't seen consistently answered, but hopefully that will be cleared up over the next couple weeks.

 

Also, the XVII Legion doesn't seem that popular. I really loved ADB's books on them and they were one of my first interests when I started 40k, but hadn't gotten around to starting them until BaC came out.

[depthcharge12]

Honestly you might be able to do a wombo combo with that RoW and the diabolist special character.

 

Do your two ashen circle squads with dark channeling and some Gal Vorbak with him attached in a Dreadclaw or something :)

[Terminus]

I feel the Word Bearers' main popularity issue is that people who play a Legion in 30K want to play with Space Marines, and the Word Bearers' main shtick is being able to bring daemons, i.e. not Space Marines.

 

Shattered Legions should make them more popular, though. Zardu is great even as a second HQ choice, since he can get the summon train going by summoning Tzeench daemons to do more summoning, and opens up Gal Vorbak as a unit choice. The big melee combo could also be nice, especially if you bring along a Pravian with Vorax. S7 or an invulnerable save on them is quite nice.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Terminus

[1ncarnadine]

I'm kind of waiting to see the actual rules, not just a summary. Are Gal Vorbak compulsory? Are they scoring? Can other troops still be taken? Do the Gal Vorbak have to take a pod, or can they use their natural DS rule? Still some answers I haven't seen consistently answered, but hopefully that will be cleared up over the next couple weeks.

 

Also, the XVII Legion doesn't seem that popular. I really loved ADB's books on them and they were one of my first interests when I started 40k, but hadn't gotten around to starting them until BaC came out.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Fnj01KH.jpg?2

[Goonbandito]

Gal Vorbak in Drop Pods is not a bad thing - 35pts to ensure a 200pt unit doesn't mishap on a Deep Strike, which also happens to cause a pinning test within 12"?  That sounds reasonable to me.  Besides, with how the Drop Pod Assault rule works, you need other Pods to make up the half that don't get to arrive turn 1.  Assuming you put your shooty stuff in the Turn1 Pods (Tactical Support, Heavy Support, Destroyers etc) then you can put the Gal Vorbak in the other pods to drop in and get some late game charges on.  Or even if you do drop them in Turn 1, they're tougher than most units and stand a better chance of surviving a turn of shooting so they can charge. Or buy them a Dreadclaw, and then assault out of it on the following turn.

 

I think this new RoW is pretty good, and significantly better than the existing one.  I also rate it over the Orbital Assault RoW, mainly because Last of the Serrated Sun still lets you deploy vehicles as normal.  The only real downsides are no Demon Allies, and you'll have to use Dreadclaw's if you want to bring Terminators.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I think the new rite of war for WBs is awesome, certainly much better than dark brethren which felt very restrictive to me. The only downside I can see is you can't put Gal Vorbak in spartans since they have to deep strike. An interesting alternative might be a kharybdis or dreadclaw, drop in turn one, sit in the pod, assault turn 2, plus with full HS slots anti vehicle won't be a problem like it can be in dark brethren.

[Erren]

Yeah, wow. First of all, thanks for that LetsYouDown. I kinda wish they'd had that as the initial Rite of War rather than Dark Brethren, partly because I agree with Terminus that the main draw being Daemon allies isn't why people are attracted to 30k.

 

I always have trouble fitting my HQs into pods, or coming up with a more useful way to use them. With this one, it's a shame that the Gal Vorbak can't use a Kharybdis, because sticking them in one with a couple HQs would be very mean. Instead, I think the Dreadclaw is the way to go. Maybe round out the troops with a tactical squad in a drop pod and maybe an Assault Squad for the HQs to tag along with? I forget how these Infantry Limitations usually work, Jump Infantry aren't Infantry, right? So Assault Squads could start on the table?

 

Sidestepping the Jump Infantry issue:

 

Lorgar, Chaplain in Terminator Armor, Primus Medicae in Terminator Armor, all in a Dreadclaw.

Dark Brethren, in a Dreadclaw.

Dread with Grav in a Dread Pod

Dread with Grav in a Dread Pod

Tactical Squad in a Pod

Add Tanks to taste. Preferably Anti-Tank ones. Let's say a Deredeo and a Squadron of Medusas.

That comes out to about 2400 points, 2500 if you go heavy on the upgrades, I imagine.  I don't know that it'd beat the most optimized lists, but it looks pretty strong to me. Quite short on scoring I guess, with only the one tactical squad that'll be arriving in a later wave. If you drop one Medusa, you can fit in a second Tac Squad in Drop Pod.

[Caillum]

Are Gal Vorbak... ...scoring?

Well, given they have a special rule called "Damned" that specifically makes them non-scoring, I would say not.

 

Terminus, you're right about the Rite of War though - pretty cool actually! Gives Word Bearers a worthy alternative to Daemon Allies & Warp Charge armies.

[captainblow]

I'm mostly bummed that you can't have units bigger than 5, nor attach hq's to the gal'vorbak.

[Goonbandito]

I'm mostly bummed that you can't have units bigger than 5, nor attach hq's to the gal'vorbak.

But you can The RoW just says you have to take a Drop Pod/Dreadclaw as a DT for the Gal Vorbak - it doesn't say they must start the game embarked in it (like the Orbital Assault RoW says you must). A Kharybdis qualifies as a Flyer with transport capacity for a big squad of Gal Vorbak + HQs, so buy a Heavy Support Kharybdis and load it up Then the empty Drop Pod can be used as the 2nd half of the Drop Pod Assault, allowing a more useful Pod to come in on Turn 1.

[captainblow]

Can you buy a DT for a squad too big to fit into it though? Regardless of not using it.

If so that could be a nice solution, a 35 point tax iant that bad.

[1ncarnadine]

 

I'm mostly bummed that you can't have units bigger than 5, nor attach hq's to the gal'vorbak.

But you can The RoW just says you have to take a Drop Pod/Dreadclaw as a DT for the Gal Vorbak - it doesn't say they must start the game embarked in it (like the Orbital Assault RoW says you must). A Kharybdis qualifies as a Flyer with transport capacity for a big squad of Gal Vorbak + HQs, so buy a Heavy Support Kharybdis and load it up Then the empty Drop Pod can be used as the 2nd half of the Drop Pod Assault, allowing a more useful Pod to come in on Turn 1.

 

 

as per Drop Pod Assault: "units who have purchased Drop Pods as transports must always be deployed in them"

[Goonbandito]

Huh, I didn't notice that rule was worded differently on the Drop Pod compared to the Dreadclaw and Kharybdis. I guess if you were desperate to have a large squad, you could still shell out for a Dreadclaw and then put them in the Kharybdis. Though at that point you may as well just use a regular detachment

[Hesh Kadesh]

I quite like that. Brings it up to the level of a Night lord or RG army at the least, and still keep 3 Heavy Support. That you now have face eaters as a Non TaxTroop unit is golden.

 

Erebus leading a Veteran Squad, dual Grav Dread, 6 Grav Cannons, Medusa. One-Two punch of dead Spartan, then getting ganked by 50 Rending S5 attacks.

[Terminus]

99% sure you can't buy a transport if you can't fit in it.

[Erren]

How do you get all that in a list, Hesh? Last of the Shattered Sun doesn't have the dreadnought Effect that Orbital Assult does (letting you take multiple dreads per etite choice and still buy pods for them). I guess you could walk them? That doesn't sound great. The Rapier crew are infantry, so they have to arrive via drop pod, but they can't buy one as a DT. They're extremely bulky, so that's 2 per Dreadclaw.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Erebus

 

Grav Dread

Veterans

Grav Rapiers

Grav Rapiers

 

Gal Vorbak

Gal Vorbak

 

Etc etc?

 

It is infantry units, not infantry models. FW still don't know understand that there is no such thing as an infantry unit, as multiple types of models can be in a unit, and that unit types can be under multiple headings.

 

Artillery are not infantry.

[1ncarnadine]

Hey all! Want to hear something HILARIOUS? 

 

I've just noticed something great, thanks to Hesh pointing out the new Raven Guard rite of war limits Immobile units, thus making Drop Pods & DDPs illegal under the Rite (because they are Immobile under their entry! woohoo!).

 

Yeah... So, the cool thing is, Last of the Serrated Sun, the new Word Bearers rite that gives Gal Vorbak access to Drop Pods as dedicated transports and says that any unit with access to a Rhino as dedicated can instead take a Drop Pod...

 

..........under Limitations: The army may not include any Immobile units.

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH... hah..hahaha..... why

 

Forge World must not consider drop pods Immobile. Or at least, they weren't thinking of Drop Pods at all when they made a lot of these new Rites. Lots of them restrict you from taking Slow & Purposeful units (of which there are none now in the Legiones list?), Fortifications, and Immobile units (which would generally be Tarantula turrets, right?). What a weird oversight.

Edited February 18, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[Terminus]

This is actually pretty big and worth raising some noise over.  It seems they don't consider Legion Drop Pods immobile units, and in fact if you read the immobile rule of Drop Pods:

 

 

 

"Once it has been deployed a drop pod cannot move, and counts as a vehicle that has suffered an irreparable immobilized result".

 

Immobile is not actually defined anywhere else in the FW or GW rulebooks. Artillery (Immobile) is never clarified either, who can't be just treated as vehicles that suffered immobilized results, since they aren't vehicles.

[1ncarnadine]

This is actually pretty big and worth raising some noise over.  It seems they don't consider Legion Drop Pods immobile units, and in fact if you read the immobile rule of Drop Pods:

 

 

 

"Once it has been deployed a drop pod cannot move, and counts as a vehicle that has suffered an irreparable immobilized result".

 

Immobile is not actually defined anywhere else in the FW or GW rulebooks. Artillery (Immobile) is never clarified either, who can't be just treated as vehicles that suffered immobilized results, since they aren't vehicles.

 

That's my thinking. Otherwise some Rites make significantly less sense or like the WB rite, are almost completely non-functional. 

 

I'm pretty sure they were only thinking about static artillery & defensive models (again, like Tarantulas).

[Lord Asvaldir]

Rules lawyers are clearly going to have a field day with describing what an "immobile" unit is, but for me the spirit of the rule is enough. The rule is clearly made for units like tarantulas that don't belong in a drop pod assault list. 

[Terminus]

I have a feeling the same kind of "duh" consensus will be achieved about the recon rite, and many other dumb things in the book. Now if only people were so accommodating about points. :D

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean most of us, me certainly included haven't even seen the full text of all these new rites yet! I'd bet most of this confusion over new RoW rules is because we are all too impatient to get our hands on book 6. Once we can really read these rules, the questions over Last of the Shattered Sun and Recon Company will be resolved. 

 

Yes, if only bad pts pricing was an easy issue to solve.. 

[Terminus]

I've seen the exact text, and it's exactly as reported. Last of the Shattered Sun says you can't take Immobile stuff, recon rite says "Recon are compulsory" with no further equivocation.

[Flint13]

Drop pods don't start as immobile units. They obviously have to deploy and become immobile after their deployment.

 

The Rite prohibits Immobile units like Tarantula batteries, it doesn't prohibit a vehicle becoming immobilized, which is why FW didn't "think" to include drop pods when they were putting those rites together.

 

At best, I suppose it gives you a good screen test to highlight who you might want to avoid playing a game with.