[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Terminus]

 

Got the book in hand.

 

Bad news, folks, if you wanted Zardu to lead the Serrated Sun rite of war, you can't bring any Ashen Circle friends, because they need to be either in a flier or a deep striking drop pod.

I was under the impression that you could still take jump infantry with this RoW?

Sure, if you can put them in a flyer or a deep striking pod.  As far as I am aware, the Eagle does not have the same ability to transport jump infantry that the Raven does.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Jump infantry isn't an exclusive sub group of unit like monstrous creature, artillery, calvary, etc... it's essentially a prefix that adds rules to normal infantry, but still.counts them as infantry for all intents and purposes

[Hesh Kadesh]

It is also why RG Infantry get Infiltrate. But nobody plays that.

 

Practical RACSD is one thing and should be adhered to; mainly because someone going RAW means that someone inevitably shoots themselves in the foot somewhere along the lines by the RAW being so gimmicky.

 

That said, it doesn't excuse FW's poor attempt at this. It makes them look decidedly amatuer, and at £70 for a book, yound have though it would be picked up by now.

 

That said, you can take a Thunderhawk.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[Seahawk]

No, because then they'd be Infantry, not Jump Infantry. They follow the rules for both, not just one or the other. This is a similar reason why you can take drop pods, because they are not Immobile units (they simply become immobile after arriving).

 

Infantry units must be mounted up. Jump Infantry don't even have to start in Reserves. 

 

I finally got to read the RoW, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. It's written pretty clearly to me.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Seahawk, i've not got the rules to hand, but please chech the 7th Ed "the Rules" for the rules for Jump Infantry, which calls them out at acting like infantry except as noted.

[SkimaskMohawk]

No. You're wrong 100% on this. The pod comment solidifies that you're just repeating what flint said. Pods are 100% immobile units, because they're the only unit with the immobile rule; immobilized is a damage result, not a special rule,and therefore irrelevant. The rules for jump/jet infantry are super clear in the brb, please go read the entry.

[Slips]

We have an Official Rules Forum for this sort of talk bring it up there then come back with the consensus.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I agree; I've thoroughly gone through it in the rules section. I have no issue with word bearers players deciding to tweak the ROW as it breaks down completely of you follow RAW. The incorrect repetition of the drop pod line only spreads misinformation though, especially in this thread where it's more polarized.

[Seahawk]

No polarized view here, just going by the rules as written.

 

Normally, a legion drop pod is not an immobile vehicle; it is a mobile vehicle that suffers from an Immobilzed result upon landing. This is explained in its special rules description, and would therefore be a unit that is allowed (otherwise all vehicles would be banned).

 

Now, a Deathstorm Drop Pod is a straight up Immobile vehicle, because it lacks the additional clarification that the Legion pods have. This would be a unit that is not allowed.

 

However, the Infantry point stands as explained better to me.

 

Thus, by RAW:

- No Ashen Circle because they can't be carried in any transport.

- Yes Legion Drop Pods because they are mobile vehicles that suffer an Immobilized result.

- No Deathstorm Drop Pods because they are Immobile vehicles.

 

Because oversights are dumb, yay!

 

And nobody could possibly know RAI. Maybe there weren't any Ashen Circle in the Serrated Stars? Maybe they ran out of Deathstorms, being so low on manpower. Who knows!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Go to the thread in the rules section where I've already refuted all the assumptions that Immobile and Immobilized are synonyms. Slips has already asked for discussions about the minutia to go there and even if he hadn't I wouldn't spend the effort copy and pasting the answers.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Well, you sure have an attitude and can't be assed to provide any help (or refute anything), but since there's no thread about immobilization in the top three pages of the rules, could you provide a link please? 

Are you sure?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319919-dedicated-transports-and-row-foc-limitations/

 

With the relevant thread now linked, for ease and clarity to aid with Seahawk's comprehension of what we're saying. Because I'm meant to be helpful now, here's the gist of it, but please continue this discussion within that thread, or create another with a far more obvious title to suit yourself and discuss it.

 

Jump Infantry; "Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry."

Source; 7th Ed, The Rules

 

Drop Pods; Special rules; Drop Pod Assault, Immobile, Inertial Guidance System.

Tarantula Sentry Gun; Unit Type; Artillery (Immobile)

Word Bearer's Unique Rite of War; Last of the Serrated Sun Limitations; "The army may not include any Immobile units"

 

If you have an electronic copy of the 7th Ed rules, Ctrl+F, or search through the document for "Immobile". You will not find it. 

 

What we're saying is factually true. Not that it should be the case. But that it's basic as literally checking which unit you've just allowed to take, and making sure that you're not making a rule to ban it. It's like giving Artillery crew specifically Furious Charge while their gun is present. 

[Terminus]

It is also why RG Infantry get Infiltrate. But nobody plays that.

Hmm, I deal with infiltrating, furious charging, fleeting Dark Furies all the time.  Damn powergaming Raven Guard.... if only their theme, scheme and iconography weren't lobotomizingly boring.  I guess I could say my Alphas are duplicating their tactics?

 

 

Regarding the whole drop pod debate:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319919-dedicated-transports-and-row-foc-limitations/?p=4336900

Edited March 16, 2016 by Terminus

[Hesh Kadesh]

Please take it to the relevant linked thread. To address that point for ease of others reading, there is no reference to it requiring it to be a unit type or special rule. Both are 'immobile' in parlance and trigger the clause banning Immobile. Edited March 15, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[Terminus]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319919-dedicated-transports-and-row-foc-limitations/?p=4336900

Edited March 16, 2016 by Terminus

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's not really a subtype. Even the artillery version is a special rule found in lacal; the drop pod variant isn't even included in the unit type

[Terminus]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319919-dedicated-transports-and-row-foc-limitations/?p=4336900

Edited March 16, 2016 by Terminus

[Slips]

>:-(

 

What did I just say not even a page back?

Edited March 15, 2016 by Slipstreams

[ronin_cse]

As someone thinking of starting WBs and who enjoys getting useful tactical information from this thread would you guys mind arguing about rules in the rules forum so this one doesn't get locked? Considering how it's written there is never going to be a consensus here and the argument will just keep going in circles anyways.

[Terminus]

You said to discuss it in the rules thread, and come back with the consensus.  I perused the arguments in the rules thread, and I am here to provide said consensus.  Half of you are right for the wrong reasons, and the other half are wrong for the right ones.  More to the point, have fun with your drop pods, and if the relevant discussion posts from this thread need to be removed/merged with that other rules thread, then great.  And before y'all get all moderaty on us, remember that a moderator started the debate. :D

Edited March 15, 2016 by Terminus

[Slips]

 

 

Fine, whatever. I see anymore posts on this debate here from this point on, its getting purged.

[ronin_cse]

So question on how to expand my fledgling Word Bearers army: Right now I have the stuff from the B@C box, a unit of Gal Vorbak, a couple Rhinos, and a Vindicator with laser destroyer. Would I be better served getting the FW bundle that includes a contemptor, another unit of Gal Vorbak, and a unit of Ashen Circle; or would I be better off getting a Spartan or Typhon.....or something else within the same price range? 

[annymouse]

I have a Zone Mortalis event here in a month and I was wondering how Word Bearers best approach that. They have the flaw of needing a second hq, but does that nake them unviable?

 

I also heard that the tainted dread is pretty good in ZM which could be super fun

[Caillum]

Mhara Gal is great for the walk-through-walls ability, but check the rules and the thickness of the Zone Mortalis walls to make sure you can pull it off.

 

Another interesting option is Zardu Layak as your Warlord, giving you Ashen Circle as Troops. They have hardened armour, so don't suffer from the Cold Void penalties, and all of them carry hand flamers, which gain Shred in ZM. These Ashen Circle have to have the Dark Channeling upgrade, but all of the possible benefits are decent for them.

[annymouse]

That's a really interesting idea! Can you take them as Compulsory? I might have to pick up some Ashen Circle. Right now I just have a Mhara Gal and Gal Vorbak and Zardu for legion specific units.

[Slips]

If Zardu is your Warlord, they can be taken as troops and are scoring.

 

However, a thing of note for ZM is Jump Infantry moving 6"+ in the movement alongside Bikes and Jetbikes take Dangerous Terrain Checks  every time they do so. Small chance but it might whittle your numbers down if you get unlucky.