[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Jimm]

So how are people finding the new ROW? I haven't had a chance to use it yet but made a few list for up coming games and curios to know how people have got on with it.

 

I think currently I'm circling around 3 gal vorbak squads in pods supported by either 2 squads of vets or 5-6 plasma support and 2 dreads. Depending on list I have the usual other units supporting like mortis dreads, sicarans lorgar with friends in a ram and so on.

 

I usual play 3-4k but interested to hear anyone's views on any size they may have used

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

It's very good. Gives drop Pods to all the infantry that need it while retaining vehicle power.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Does anyone here use the Ashen Circle ? Do you like them ?

[Jimm]

Does anyone here use the Ashen Circle ? Do you like them ?

Your prob get a divided response to this.

 

Personally from a competitive view they are fairly poor, they do look cool though.

 

I usually play 3-4k games and struggle to find a role for them I can't fill with more reliable units with a better focus. Problem is they either hit like a standard assalt marine(other than ws5) or at i1 and AP2. While the ap2 is nice anything your be hunting will probably hit before you at ap2/3 or will have a power fist and your loose those fights without an inv. Lack of melta bombs and other weapon options hurts them.

 

I guess it comes down to game size and rite of war/warlord as in little games with layak as a warlord they are a cheapish troop with a bit of speed but as a melee unit they just don't cut it like some other legion's jp units.

 

In my opinion Fw need to make them 2 attacks base and the rake axe ap4 or rending. Melta bombs would be a good addition

[Terminus]

Well, with Layak they could potentially get a 5++ from daemon.

[Joe]

Would a Volkite Charger or an Archaeotech Pistol be better equipment for a Legion Praetor? I'm assuming that the Mastercrafted rule can be applied to either of them as well, correct?

[Terminus]

All of that is a giant waste.

[Thedarkprincesnun]

So how do you guys run your vet squads? Right now im considering

10 man 2 plasma guns with the sergant having a combi plasma + artificer armour in a rhino each

Also biker praetors does anyone run these guys?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here's my build:

 

Sergeant - AA PF Combi-flamer

HB

Plasma gun

4x PW

 

It's a full squad btw.

[Hellrender]

Im building my betrayal at calth box and im considering a few options on which i need some advice.

 

For the terminators i was considering 4 with combi- boltguns, and 1 plasma blaster, maybe a fist or 2.

 

Or.. 5 with an assortment og lightning claws (not sure of all dual claws, or a few singles).

 

Likewise, im considering a 10 man veteran tactical sqaud with 2 heavy bolters, but unsure if i should add 1-2 power weapons.

[Joe]

Right then, I've put together a rudimentary list; I've altered the equipment on the Praetor (PP and Paragon Blade now), although without access to anything other than Battlescribe I'm stuffed on looking up the usefulness of the PB. Don't Tainted Weapons give instant death?

 

HQ

 

- Legion Praetor - 200pts - Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Burning Lore, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol, Paragon Blade

 

- Legion Centurion - 160pts - Artificer Armour, Consul: Diabolist, Burning Lore, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol, Tainted Weapon

 

- Legion Centurion - 180pts - Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Consul: Chaplain, Burning Lore, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol, Thunder Hammer

 

Elites

 

- Apothecarion Detachment - 150pts - x2 Legion Apothecary (Artificer Armour x2, Power Sword x2, Volkite Charger x2)

 

- Legion Destroyer Squad - 450pts - x1 Legion Destroyer Sergeant (Artificer Armour, x2 Phosphex Bombs, Tainted Weapon), x9 Legion Destroyer Marines (Melta Bombs, Jump Packs, x2 Missile Launcher /w Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles)

 

Troops

 

- Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 395pts - x1 Legion Veteran Sergeant (Artificer Armour, Plasma Pistol, Tainted Weapon), x9 Legion Veteran Space Marines (Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Veteran Tactics: Sniper, Dark Channelling, x2 Heavy Bolter /w Suspensor Web), Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (Heavy Bolter, Auxiliary Drive)

 

- Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 395pts - x1 Legion Veteran Sergeant (Artificer Armour, Plasma Pistol, Tainted Weapon), x9 Legion Veteran Space Marines (Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Veteran Tactics: Sniper, Dark Channelling, x2 Heavy Bolter /w Suspensor Web), Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (Heavy Bolter, Auxiliary Drive)

 

- Legion Breacher Siege Squad - 415pts - x1 Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant (Artificer Armour, Plasma Pistol, Thunder Hammer, x1 Breaching Charge), x9 Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines (Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Dark Channelling, x2 Flamer)

 

Heavy Support

 

- Legion Sicaran Battle Tank - 185pts - Lascannons, Auxiliary Drive

 

- Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron - 280pts - x2 Legion Predator Tanks (x2 Heavy Bolters, x2 Lascannons, x2 Auxiliary Drives)

 

Total Points: 2810/3000

 

I understand that I'm out of my depth with Word Bearers; I'm used to playing Sons of Horus and Night Lords, so the list is a bit... all over the place. As far as named characters go we try to avoid using them during games at our FLGS; primarchs included. The Word Bearers RoW seemed practical, in a sense, although the loss of a Heavy Support slot seemed impractical. Losing scoring units via Dark Channelling is risky as well.

[Terkael]

I understand that I'm out of my depth with Word Bearers; I'm used to playing Sons of Horus and Night Lords, so the list is a bit... all over the place. As far as named characters go we try to avoid using them during games at our FLGS; primarchs included. The Word Bearers RoW seemed practical, in a sense, although the loss of a Heavy Support slot seemed impractical. Losing scoring units via Dark Channelling is risky as well.

No named characters can be tough for WB, a lot of them can pull double duty for unlocking options in our army lists. Zardu for ashen circle troops, Erebus as a diabolist and a chaplain, etc.

[Terminus]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but that list seems really really bad. 3000 points and 40 dudes in power armour?  Tabled in two turns.

[Replicant]

Any thoughts with the new RoW? I'm having a bit of a conundrum with dudes in PA and a good balance.

[Joe]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but that list seems really really bad. 3000 points and 40 dudes in power armour?  Tabled in two turns.

 

That's more or less the issue I'm trying to solve; I'm sort of screwed into a corner by not having access to any special characters. I could drop the Breacher Siege Squad in favour of a Contemptor talon or a Deredeo, but given I already have a Sicaran and two Predators I feel I'd be better off with a Fast Attack option.

[Terminus]

If special characters and Primarchs (who I consider the "friendly" LOW choice), I assume stuff like Typhons don't fly either, so I'll avoid LOWs.

 

What you can do really depends on your collection. The Serrated Sun Rite plays basically like Orbital Assault on crack if you have the Gal Vorbak and Dreadclaws to take advantage of it.  The other (can't recall the name) is more if you want to bring Daemon allies.  Assuming you don't have any of that:

 

Dark Channeling is nice for melee units, but not really necessary for sniper vets. Plasma pistols are really overpriced for what you get, and a tainted weapon is no substitute for a power fist (in fact it should be paired with power fists on ICs so you can get an extra attack for two specialist weapons).  Ditch all the plasma pistols, and all the tainted weapons, and just give one the the chaplain (who will now have a crozius, thunderhammer, and doom dagger).

 

Vexillas are superfluous with your special rules.

 

Rhinos are too expensive, a dozer blade is adequate if you fear immobilization. Otherwise, they will either be going flat out to block/advance, and/or popping smoke to not die, and/or will be dead, so no need to make it into a razorback.  Although I do have a soft spot for a heavy flamer pintle ala Repressor, to tank shock units into blobs and then torch them.

 

Dumping all that extraneous stuff, the diabolist and the breachers should put you under 2000 points. I am not a fan of destroyers, but if you're going to take them, give the chaplain a jump pack to accompany them. Then fill in with whatever else you like, keeping an eye on not overspending on options... dreadnoughts, special weapons quads, etc.

 

You desperately need some more ranged anti-tank, so those predators need lascannon sponsons, and that third HS option would ideally be a podded Leviathan, a Sicaran Venator, or a Deredeo [in that order IMO]. All the meltabombs should handle any monstrous creatures just fine (assuming you're continuing to play by the universal house rule of all being usable as close combat attacks).

 

And for a slightly more radical idea, if you don't have the WB-unique units, and you can't use the WB-unique characters, how about using the Blackshield rules to create a particularly vicious sub-chapter of the word bearers?  There were several that embraced warpcraft very enthusiastically.  All the mutations/alien tech/whatever justified because Chaos.  Their HQ is a total beast, as well.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Word Bearers are a typically assaulty army. They have some of the premier assault units in the game, Gal Vorbak, who do well until you put them up against Terminators or Medusa, and have access to Daemons via Malefic Summoning, or their Rite of War.

 

To assault, you drop pod. To drop pod effectively, you need Dreadclaws.

 

3 Dreadclaws leaves you with space for a 4th Elite unit, such as a Graviton Rapier Squad, Quad Rapier Battery (no Phosphex if running Rite of War), or a Baby-Contemptor with dual Grav in a pod. Finished off with a Leviathan or Deredeo if you're worried about flyers, means you have 5 Drop Poddable units.

 

Other support comes in the form Daemons; I prefer Slaanesh with Be'lakor myself for the speed and that Screamer Star is a bit boring to play, and if you're doing either of those tactics, you might as well just ask if you can play Daemons instead.

 

If you don't want to spam Daemons or Gal Vorbak, you can always take more Dreadnoughts to act as anti-armour, pick up some Medusa, and then use things like Daemon Chariots to make mincemeat of things.

[Jimm]

My go to if I'm podding is (depending on game size) 2-3 5man gal vorbak, 1-2 levitation dreads usually with melta lance and drill to deal with armour. Lorgar in an assalt ram with some terminators.

I pad out based around that, support squad with volkite chargers are fun, tac squads to make up numbers, contemptor cortus are reasonably reliable as are vets.

If there's space I try and take layak for some daemons to pad out the numbers a little more

Edited June 21, 2016 by Jimm

[Joe]

What you can do really depends on your collection. The Serrated Sun Rite plays basically like Orbital Assault on crack if you have the Gal Vorbak and Dreadclaws to take advantage of it.  The other (can't recall the name) is more if you want to bring Daemon allies.  Assuming you don't have any of that:

 

Dark Channeling is nice for melee units, but not really necessary for sniper vets. Plasma pistols are really overpriced for what you get, and a tainted weapon is no substitute for a power fist (in fact it should be paired with power fists on ICs so you can get an extra attack for two specialist weapons).  Ditch all the plasma pistols, and all the tainted weapons, and just give one the the chaplain (who will now have a crozius, thunderhammer, and doom dagger).

I'll drop DC on the Vet Tac, as well as the PP and TW in favour of a power fist. I've thrown on a Tainted Weapon on the chaplain, as well as dropping the vexilla. Chucking on a Dozer Blade and a pintle-mounted Heavy Flamer brings the vehicle to 55pts, which seems reasonable? As for the Legion Praetor, I've dropped the Plasma Pistol but have retained the Paragon Blade; is a Combi-Weapon or a Volkite weapon of some description worthwhile equipment for him?

 

As far as the Vet Tacs go, I'd love to retain them (as well as PotL) as I'm used to running them with my Sons of Horus, although I don't think the Word Bearers other RoWs allow for them as a troops choice?

 

Dumping all that extraneous stuff, the diabolist and the breachers should put you under 2000 points. I am not a fan of destroyers, but if you're going to take them, give the chaplain a jump pack to accompany them. Then fill in with whatever else you like, keeping an eye on not overspending on options... dreadnoughts, special weapons quads, etc.

I've ditched the Breachers and the Diabolist, and thrown a jump pack on the chaplain to accompany the Destroyers, although as Hesh Kadesh and Jimm have suggested throwing in a squad or three of Gal Vorbak is a possible option to replace them.

 

You desperately need some more ranged anti-tank, so those predators need lascannon sponsons, and that third HS option would ideally be a podded Leviathan, a Sicaran Venator, or a Deredeo [in that order IMO]. All the meltabombs should handle any monstrous creatures just fine (assuming you're continuing to play by the universal house rule of all being usable as close combat attacks).

I already have a pair of lascannon sponsoons on each of my Predators, so I'll throw a Leviathan in for additional support. I can't actually see it on BattleScribe for some reason.

 

And for a slightly more radical idea, if you don't have the WB-unique units, and you can't use the WB-unique characters, how about using the Blackshield rules to create a particularly vicious sub-chapter of the word bearers?  There were several that embraced warpcraft very enthusiastically.  All the mutations/alien tech/whatever justified because Chaos.  Their HQ is a total beast, as well.

That's actually an interesting idea; what are the rules like for the Blackshield Reaver Lord? It shouldn't take too much to spin them as a Word Bearers force, although don't they lack a Rite of War?

[Terminus]

@Jimm: Lorgar and terminators in a Ram is thematic and cool as hell, but pretty weak on the rules front. That's like 1000 points of stuff, including your Primarch(!), not contributing anything until turn 3 in the best case scenario. Hen when it does arrive could be intercepted out of the sky and leave them stranded far from battle.

 

For pretty much every Primarch except Horus and the flying ones, if you want to run them with a big meatball of asskickery, the Kharybdis is the way to get it done (plus it's the best-looking flyer FW ever made).

 

@Isinfier: Gal Vorbak would be a much stronger choice than destroyers, and at that point I would just run Serrated Sun rite since you're podding all this stuff. 4chan may have details about on reaver lord, I don't have the book handy, but he's basically a Praetor on PCP with funky wargear. They don't have rites but have various options.

[Joe]

Alright, I've toyed around with the list for a bit to include three squads of podded Gal Vorbak and a podded Leviathan. I've moved the Vet Tac to elites, although I feel dropping one squad of them in favour of a Quad or a Jetbike squad might be worthwhile. At the moment they'll be running around in Rhino's, but I can pod them if need be.

 

I still have that two man Apothecarion Detachment. I'm not really sure what to do with them. I'm also a little leery about the Leviathan, as it's not a unit I've used before; I've tossed on a Grav-flux bombard and two twin-linked Volkite Calivers to replace the Heavy Flamers, however I doubt this is the best set-up. Anyhow, the list.

 

HQ - 340pts

 

- Legion Praetor - 185pts - Master of the Legion: Last of the Serrated Sun, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Burning Lore, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade

 

- Legion Centurion - 155pts - Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Consul: Chaplain, Burning Lore, Melta Bombs, Tainted Weapon

 

Elites - 840pts

 

- Apothecarion Detachment - 150pts - x2 Legion Apothecary (Artificer Armour x2, Power Sword x2, Volkite Charger x2)

 

- Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 345pts - x1 Legion Veteran Sergeant (Artificer Armour, Power Fist), x9 Legion Veteran Space Marines (Melta Bombs, Veteran Tactics: Sniper, x2 Heavy Bolter /w Suspensor Web), Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (Heavy Flamer, Dozer Blade)

 

- Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 345pts - x1 Legion Veteran Sergeant (Artificer Armour, Power Fist), x9 Legion Veteran Space Marines (Melta Bombs, Veteran Tactics: Sniper, x2 Heavy Bolter /w Suspensor Web), Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (Heavy Flamer, Dozer Blade)

 

Troops - 990pts

 

- Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 330pts - x1 Dark Martyr (Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist), x4 Dark Brethren, Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

- Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 330pts - x1 Dark Martyr (Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist), x4 Dark Brethren, Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

- Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 330pts - x1 Dark Martyr (Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist), x4 Dark Brethren, Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

Heavy Support - 830pts

 

- Legion Sicaran Battle Tank - 185pts - Sponsoons: Lascannons, Auxiliary Drive

 

- Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron - 280pts - Legion Predator Tank (Heavy Bolter, Sponsoons: Lascannons, Auxiliary Drive), Legion Predator Tank (Heavy Bolter, Sponsoons: Lascannons, Auxiliary Drive)

 

- Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon - 365pts - Leviathan Siege Dreadnought (Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, x1 Grav-flux Bombard, x2 Twin-linked Volkite Caliver)

 

Total Points: 3000/3000

 

That's it at the moment. I need to toy around with the Blackshield idea a little more.

[Terminus]

Looks fine, but still meat to be cut.

 

Where are the apothecaries going? They can't join Gal Vorbak, and there is no room in the Rhinos.  + 150 points

 

Meltabombs are extraneous when your power fists are S10. + 15 points

 

Volkite Culverins are nice, but not necessary when podding (heavy flamers will do better anti-infantry work) + 10 points

 

Just realized how expensive your Predators are. The pintle heavy bolters are out of place here unless you're going heavy bolter sponsons as well. So two predators, lascannon sponsons, dozer blades (you just want to park them in a nice piece of cover where everything is shooting their front AV13 and not move unless absolutely necessary) for a 240 total. +40 points.

 

Your chaplain gear is wonky, he needs a proper melee weapon. If you give him a Refractor Field and Fist/Hammer instead of the boarding shield, he will have 4 power fist attacks at base. Since Chaplains get a power weapon of choice and tainted weapons can be taken instead of power weapons, I'm pretty sure you can take the tainted weapon free.  So with artificer, refractor, hammer (rule of cool), tainted weapon, burning lore, you're looking at 2+/5++ with 4 base power fist or insta-death steak knife attacks, and biomancy for a total of 160. - 5 points.

 

After all that, you're left with 210 points.

 

5-man Support Weapon Squad, 4x plasma guns, sgt with artificer armor, combi-plasma, Drop Pod - 205 points. This will give you another punch unit that can damage medium vehicles, monstrous creatures, or elite infantry. Alternatively you can go meltas if your meta has Knights. Far more importantly, this gives you a total of 5 pods, so you can drop 3 top of one, and your third scoring unit, since Gal Vorbak can't score.

 

Speaking of Gal Vorbak, these fellas are bulky, so you have no room in any of your transports for your characters. I would drop one of the Gal Vorbak units for a third Veteran squad.

 

7 Veterans, Sgt with artificer/power fist, 2x power axes, nuncio vox, melta-bombs, tactic: furious charge, Dreadclaw - 335 (you had 5 points left over from above plus another from dropping meltabombs from Praetor). With the characters, this gives you another beat-stick unit that can actually handily deal with 2+ saves, the only kinds of models that give Gal Vorbak trouble. It also gives you a fourth scoring unit and more anti-tank capability..

 

If you take Zardu instead of the Praetor, and add an apothecary for the vet unit, you basically the WB core of a list I wrote a while ago minus the tanks (you could do it for this list if you downgrade plasma support squad to flamers). You could also squeeze in an apothecary by downgrading the Praetor to a Delegatus.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Terminus

[Replicant]

Right now I'm sitting on 2 5x Gal Vorbak in Dreadclaws, 2x10 Melta Vets in pods, Daemondread (I like the model), 2 laser Vindicators, a Venator, and Deredo with AC and missles. I'm at work, don't have points with me. Lol. Any ideas of what's missing?

 

Erebus or Lyak is going to be HQ. Thinking of escorts too.

[Jimm]

@Jimm: Lorgar and terminators in a Ram is thematic and cool as hell, but pretty weak on the rules front. That's like 1000 points of stuff, including your Primarch(!), not contributing anything until turn 3 in the best case scenario. Hen when it does arrive could be intercepted out of the sky and leave them stranded far from battle

I generally play 4-10k games so points aren't an issue. As for rules it's arguably one of the toughest flyers you get use which can now melt flyers once it's unloaded it cargo safely.

As a unit you have 5+ chain/power fists depending on loadout to take out armour then a primarch who rerolls everything and is possibly one of the best tanking + 1v1 primarch in the game now.

My other option is switching layak and his blade slaves in as lorgars "bodyguards" you get a better av toughness and an amazing looking unit.

 

It's also worth a mention that if your using last of the serrated sun a command rhino is well worth it for 100pts in a bigger game to get the reverse modifier

Edited June 22, 2016 by Jimm

[Joe]

@Terminus; I've made those alterations and I've come out with... 3020pts? I may have forgotten to drop the Melta Bombs from the other two Vet Tac squads, which actually brings me to around 2970 if I drop them. It could just be BattleScribe being wonky.

 

Speaking of, I can't take the power weapon/tainted weapon on the Chaplain for some reason; again, it could just be BattleScribe being wonky.