[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Just picked up another BaC box to start up some word bearers! Question about the rite of war that requires a centurion or chaplain... Can the centurion be upgraded to a master of signals and still be RoW legal?

[Jimm]

Just picked up another BaC box to start up some word bearers! Question about the rite of war that requires a centurion or chaplain... Can the centurion be upgraded to a master of signals and still be RoW legal?

This is the charismatic leadership rule as part of the core legion rules so always factors regardless of the row.

 

It's basically a Chaplin or basic centurion with no consol upgrade but any wargear.

[Terminus]

Characters with the option to take a power weapon may take a tainted weapon instead at the same cost. Does this mean that a Chaplain can take a tainted weapon as his free power weapon?

 

If so, a Chaplain with artificer armor, refractor field, and power fist is a pretty solid combat HQ for 125 points with 4 base attacks, Zealot and Fear.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I think the chaplain would get the tainted weapon for free, with a fist that seems like a pretty solid build to me. 

[Terminus]

Seems to work rules wise and is super appropriate thematically.

[Jimm]

I've run a fist and blade chap a couple of times but tainted blades are just not that good unless your lucky and get iron arm from biomancy then it's there amazing.

 

Really wish tainted had rending to at least help a little vs other characters.

 

I generally just keep my chaplin cheap and fluffy with a maul and occasionally get lucky with my biomancy rolls

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

I'm a big fan of them, my Chaplain has a Power Maul, Bolt Pistol and Tainted Weapon (to keep it flufy as Jimm said) and will either attack with his Pistol/Maul for +1 attack or if Iron Arm is rolled and Instant Death is required, attack with the Tainted Weapon.

It's quite a niche use but I would rather have the option if required and it's easy to find the points for a Power Weapon in my lists.

 

However, I think that paired with a Power Fist, the Tainted Weapon becomes much more effective...

- Without Iron Arm, my Power Maul is hitting as S6 AP4, whereas a Fist is S8 AP2, meaning that you are not as dependant on Iron Arm for high Strength AP2 (or even Instant Death as S8 will ID T4).

- With Iron Arm however, the Fist still wins as although the Power Maul becomes S9 AP2, the Fist is S10 AP2 and can now ID T5 (whilst the Maul can only now ID T4).

- Furthermore, the Fist and Tainted Weapon are both Specialist Weapons, meaning that you continuously gain +1 attack no matter which you attack with, whilst if I choose to use the Tainted Weapon, I lose the two weapons bonus.

 

So even though the Tainted Weapon is still quite niche (only really used with Iron Arm to ID anything that is T6 or higher or as a source of non-unwieldy AP2 in combat with other HQ's), it gains more from being paired with a Power Fist as it is the cheapest second Specialist Weapon to permanently have +1 Attack, whilst on the occasions where Iron Arm is not rolled, you still have better Strength, AP2 and a reduced chance of ID (only against T4) meaning that you are not reliant on that power.

 

Although it would seem like a Power Fist can already do everything a Tainted Weapon can do and more, everyone knows that a Tainted Weapon is only effective with Iron Arm, and so in order to assess the best pairing, one must look at what it can do without Iron Arm.

And with a Power Fist, it is the cheapest way to get 2 Specialist Weapons for +1 attack, but more importantly, not gaining Iron Arm doesn't cost you anything as you still have high strength, AP2 and can ID some things.

 

So essentially, it is good that the Power Fist gains very little from rolling Iron Arm, as although you need it for the Tainted Weapon to work, you can already do 90% of the same stuff without it meaning it's not going to have a major impact on the way you use your character...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would just go fist and TW for the +1 A. Simple.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Black Orange

[okonomiyakimarine]

Diabolists' BBQ

 

Looking to built a fluffy 2000pts list and need advice how to set it up and how accompany Zardu Layak.

 

Main goal is to run 2 squad of veterans (with plasma+launcher? - i have all alternatives in the BaC box really) + Ashen Circle & Chaplain with a jump pack within 2000points. I realize that i do not need much more anti-infantry, but rule of cool I bought 10 Volkite Culverins for HS squad to sit on an objective and bbq. 

 

Should I run the veterans (rhinos) by Pride of the Legion RoW or should I get Zardu?

 

Let's say I get Zardu (great model) should I have two small squads (not cost effective) or even one big squad of Ashen Circle? Obviously i would need a tactical squad or a support squad as the second compulsory troop choice. Tac is kinda boring, so i thought cheap flamer squad to sit around Zardu and help out where needed (third rhino for transport)? Or big blob footslogging tac squad?

 

Need advice what to put around Zardu please! Open to any ideas for a fluffy(!) anti-armor unit in the backfield (as an alternative to the Volkite)?

 

cheers

 

edit: 2 full tooled up veteran squads in rhinos with extras & full ashen circle is kinda fixed. but how to run Zardu?

Option1: full cheap support squad (flamer) with Zardu in a rhino with extras and full volkite culverin squad in heavy support

Option2: full tooled up tac squad & full cheap support squad as footslogging cushion for Zardu with a contempt-cortus as elite slot choice

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by okonomiyakimarine

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I now have x3 extra Tactical Squad sprues to go along with my BaC set for my Word Bearers and I'm trying to figure out how to equip everybody. I am considering:

 

2x15 Tacticals

1x10 Vets

1x10 ML Heavy Support Squad

1x10 Support squad with Plasma guns

How is that for a start? Does anyone else use ML Heavy Squads? They seem like they do pretty good in the MWG battle reports I've watched. 

[Jimm]

Welcome to the wb.

 

Firstly it's worth pointing out you can't put an ic with ashen circle due to thier bitter duty rule So your Chaplin needs a new home, welcome to the pain that is wb list building!

 

Now layak generally has two main roles in most people's forces.

1 is with his blade slaves and possibly lorgar to act like a command squad.

2 is summoning while attached to a tac squad in the back field.

 

It's important to remember with him he's not a fighter he's a buffer. Ideally you want him with gal vorbak, blade slaves or back field summoning daemons. Both I'd class as fluffy as he's the crimson apostle and is meant to be with his kin

 

As for back field AT quad launchers are excellent for the points, deredeo dreads are also good and double as good anti air.

 

Other options would be whirlwind, vindicator laser destroyers and even double Las mortis dreads at a push. For a good looking but really hit or miss unit you've got a heavy squad with missiles but most options will out perform them

[okonomiyakimarine]

Welcome to the wb.

 

Firstly it's worth pointing out you can't put an ic with ashen circle due to thier bitter duty rule So your Chaplin needs a new home, welcome to the pain that is wb list building!

 

Now layak generally has two main roles in most people's forces.

1 is with his blade slaves and possibly lorgar to act like a command squad.

2 is summoning while attached to a tac squad in the back field.

 

It's important to remember with him he's not a fighter he's a buffer. Ideally you want him with gal vorbak, blade slaves or back field summoning daemons. Both I'd class as fluffy as he's the crimson apostle and is meant to be with his kin

 

As for back field AT quad launchers are excellent for the points, deredeo dreads are also good and double as good anti air.

 

Other options would be whirlwind, vindicator laser destroyers and even double Las mortis dreads at a push. For a good looking but really hit or miss unit you've got a heavy squad with missiles but most options will out perform them

first thanks and secondly let me tell you i hate how fluffy and anti-fluffy I find the bitter duty rule! that is just really too bad... As I do not have or plan to have Lorgar anytime soon and blade slaves alone seem underpowered, Zardu will be somewhere back and needs to be babysitted (tac support squad?). But where to put the chaplain when I add dreads (don't like to paint vehicles) instead of marines?

[Terminus]

Ashen Circle are an endless source of disappointment. You could get a bunch of bolt pistol arms and run them as an assault squad.

 

Blade slaves are sick models but too small of a unit IMO. I would use them as power sword Gal Vorbak.

 

For Rite, if you aren't bringing daemons, I'd go with the Gal Vorbak Rite. You can take drop pods for your veterans and support squads, IIRC.

[Jimm]

I find blade slaves fantastic but have limited setup opitunities.

layak, blade slaves and lorgar in a dread claw as part of a serrated sun list works amazingly well at killing other elite units or just chopping through marines. Supported by podded gal vorbak, tac.support squads, vets and leviathans is brutal

[okonomiyakimarine]

Ashen Circle are an endless source of disappointment. You could get a bunch of bolt pistol arms and run them as an assault squad.

 

Blade slaves are sick models but too small of a unit IMO. I would use them as power sword Gal Vorbak.

 

For Rite, if you aren't bringing daemons, I'd go with the Gal Vorbak Rite. You can take drop pods for your veterans and support squads, IIRC.

 

 

I find blade slaves fantastic but have limited setup opitunities.

layak, blade slaves and lorgar in a dread claw as part of a serrated sun list works amazingly well at killing other elite units or just chopping through marines. Supported by podded gal vorbak, tac.support squads, vets and leviathans is brutal

 

I appreciate your advice, but for fluff reasons i'd like to run Ashen Circle. Isn'r dropping Gal Vorbak how most run their Word Bearers? I have my WB painted in a Dark Grey and as the change is immanent and inevitable but still something of the future i would rather run huge blobs of horrors as allies than have them in my marines at least in the future.

So the question is what is the minimal but effective cushion to put around Zardu in a 2000pts game.

Edited October 25, 2016 by okonomiyakimarine

[Terminus]

Command squad and apothecary?

[Confused Word Bearer]

How is the Pyromancy discipline for the Burning Lore upgrade? It seems pretty useful for the extra wounds Soulblaze could cause.

 

Edit: Nevermind, I thought you could take it for some reason. A shame though, I thought a duo or trio of leaders burning things with a divine flame sounded interesting.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Warsmith Krast

[Meduson]

Any updates on people using Last of the Shattered Sun? I've been trying it a bit but haven't found the right combination of stuff in pods and on the ground support.

 

My 2k is basically a praetor and chaplain in a command squad with pod, a anvilus of Gal Vorbak, a pod of tacticals, a pod of melta support, a pod of combi-plasma seekers, a dread pod with a leviathan, and a laser vindicator.

[chaos45]

If Zardu was allowed more than 2 blade slaves it would help a lot.  Maybe increase max to 4 and sell a separate 2 figure set by FW would make sense and makes for a basically full squad with Zardu for a stand pod/LR deployment.  My friends also agree that him and just 2 is unwhelming and hes better off being used as an HQ attached to a different squad

[Argel Tal]

The delivery system is the main issue with the slaves for sure but they are quite effective when they get a charge on a multi wounds unit (they eat mechanicum stuff for lunch) 2 more would be great but maybe a bit too strong. 

 

I'm also quite fan of the seekers with no combi upgrade (i find it a bit too expensive), better get a support with apo. Lorgar can also bring a lot of toughness to a support squad:

put him at the front to tank all and get precog to reroll all saves, prescience to prevent the gets hot and maybe the power to get the full BS overwatch and this squad can bring down terror with the mobility of the pods making it sure to land t1. 

 

The main strength of this rite IMO is the very low limitations on tanks/rapiers  and other stuff. You can get all the heavy support you need to bring a good gunline in your DZ and enjoy the full mobility of drop pods raining among enemy lines. Don't forget the pinning tests on landing, you can get some funny results with this.

[Erren]

I've also had a hard time creating a 2000 point LotSS that I felt like was really taking advantage of the special rules. Since Gal Vorbak can't score, I feel like I need some extra scoring units. Then I want the Gal Vorbak in an Anvillus so they can assault turn 2. The two HQs have to find room in a pod, which means Blade Slaves, Seekers, Tactical Support, or Veterans. Pretty soon I'm out of points and no better off than if I'd chosen Orbital Assault (at least then I'd have some rapiers!). At 2500+ points I have room to add some tanks and Lorgar more comfortably, but my meta isn't playing games that big yet.

[Argel Tal]

You can't join blade slaves with any HQ, they act like a command squad on their own and don't forget they are daemon as well if it was even possible. I don't think the main bonus of this rite is the GV as troops, the main bonus is drop pod for all infantry with no real restriciton apart from that unlike orbital assault.

@Erren you don't have to get pods for rapieds in LotSS, it's a specific restriction for orbital assault. Concerning the HQ I think Zardu is quite good to summon some demons and cast cursed earth on the GV unit(s), add a centurion with burning lire to get some psy shriek and pray for invis ^^

Concerning the Dreadclaw, you will also charge on T2 with a classic drop pod but you'll have to get out when you land. I'd rather have the dreadclaw on Zardu with the slaves to get some protection from shooting and dont give a free point for warlord. GV can endure some light and medium shooting on their own. 

[Castellan Cato]

This is a little off topic, but I see it come up often that non-daemons and daemons can't be in the same unit (i.e. A chaplain joining zardu and blade slaves or an apothecary joining a squad that got daemon through dark channeling). Can someone point me to where that rule is? I can't seem to find it.

[Dhar'Neth]

There is no such rule.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

This is a little off topic, but I see it come up often that non-daemons and daemons can't be in the same unit (i.e. A chaplain joining zardu and blade slaves or an apothecary joining a squad that got daemon through dark channeling). Can someone point me to where that rule is? I can't seem to find it.

 

From what you're saying it sounds like what you're looking for is the Chaos Daemons 'Daemonic Instability' Special Rule, which prevents anything with this rule joining/being joined by anything that doesn't have it.

But otherwise, as Dhar'Neth points out, the rule you described doesn't exist. So I would imagine it is a slightly muddled interpretation of 'Daemonic Instability'.

 

It has nothing to do with the 'Daemon' Special Rule. i.e. there is no reason why a Chaplain can't join Zardu and Blade Slaves, an Apothecary can't join Dark Channelling Daemons or a Diabolist not joining a non-Daemon squad.

 

The only time this rule comes into play in 30k is if you take Daemon Allies for your Word Bearers as everything from Codex: Chaos Daemons has 'Daemonic Instability', meaning that no Word Bearers Characters can join those Daemon units (regardless of if they are also Daemons), and no Chaos Daemon Characters can join Word Bearers units.