[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Argel Tal]

But the Blade Slave unit forms one HQ choice on their own, thus they cannot be joined by any kind of character if I'm correct ? 

Concerning the daemon issue ye, my bad I made a little confusion with the 40k codex rules.

[Marshal Loss]

Biggest bonus for LoTSS is if anything the fact that you don't need to take tactical squads as tax - you can fill your compulsory slots with Gal Vorbak and use vets or support squads for scoring. Really amazing RoW.

 

Blade Slaves + Zardu are their own HQ choice, you don't have to put Zardu with the Blade Slaves, and you can attach other Characters to them if you like. In ~2500 games I run Zardu, Blade Slaves, a Centurion and Lorgar in a Dreadclaw.

[Withershadow]

But the Blade Slave unit forms one HQ choice on their own, thus they cannot be joined by any kind of character if I'm correct ?

 

Concerning the daemon issue ye, my bad I made a little confusion with the 40k codex rules.

They form a unit. Units can be joined by independent characters.

 

So if you do Zardu, Blade Slaves, Centurion and Lorgar, you can stick them all in a dreadclaw.

[Argel Tal]

Hmm ok, looks like a good option to take then (ifthe drop pod lands out of the table and then roll 1 for DS incident you can cry a river ah ah)  but for sure Zardu cannot leave the unit, it is stated in his rules "Zardu may not split from this unit while any blade-slaves remain alive"

 

Concerning the rite, I don't really know when I should take a dreadclaw or a drop pod. The dreadclaw seems so expensive, ok it can do some stuff if you are lucky with the hiton the lowest armor and clear some space around its landing zone but that's not the best thing ever.  Plus, you will always have to wait one turn inside which implies that it is mainly intended for assault units if you want to use its burning attack when it lands. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Argel Tal

[Jimm]

If your playing 2k or under id ignore gal vorbak in pods, tacs with vet support is a better use of points. Marksman is my favourite but machine killers with melta is pretty nasty if you know you have Spartans or other heavy armor to deal with.

Personally I always play around 3-5k mark so things can get pretty juicy with lots of gal vorbak and vets.

[Withershadow]

Gal Vorbak in dreadclaws is mandatory for the Rite.

 

Zardu doesn't have to leave the unit for his unit to be joined by independent characters.

 

Dreadclaws are amazing.

[Argel Tal]

Gal Vorbak in dreadclaws is mandatory for the Rite.

 

Zardu doesn't have to leave the unit for his unit to be joined by independent characters.

 

Dreadclaws are amazing.

Nope GV can go either in drop pod or dreadclaws. 

 

For Zardu in any case he cannot leave the slaves before they die. 

 

They are good but so expensive compare to normal drop pods :( the main benefit after they drop their dudes is to use it to deny some objectives on hover and burn some stuff on the way. 

[Withershadow]

Putting them in drop pods is the same thing as kicking yourself repeatedly in the nuts. Not recommended. They are an assault unit, assault transport is mandatory.

 

The Zardu thing is completely irrelevant, not sure why folks keep harping on it. The point is not him leaving the unit but other ICs joining that unit, which is fine.

[Argel Tal]

Putting them in drop pods is the same thing as kicking yourself repeatedly in the nuts. Not recommended. They are an assault unit, assault transport is mandatory.

 

The Zardu thing is completely irrelevant, not sure why folks keep harping on it. The point is not him leaving the unit but other ICs joining that unit, which is fine.

 

Hmm I don't get what you mean in any case the guys will have to wait one turn before charging with the dreadclaw or the std drop pod. The only difference is that with the claw you can use its armor to shield the unit inside but you pay quite a lot of point to use this. 

[Withershadow]

Let's see... one is an AV12 jinking hull that can protect the unit and then move rapidly to deliver then where you want, and then continue nuking infantry and light vehicles.

 

The other forces you to disembark in a nice little clump close to the enemy where they can light you up.  You're basically giving your Gal Vorbak away, because they will be priority one and they aren't that tough outside of melee.

[Argel Tal]

Yep you are right but you pay +70 points for this protection compared to the normal pod.

[Slips]

And those 70 points will always be worth it everytime the CC unit its carrying doesnt get instagibbed on the following turn since they can do nothing but stand there and gawk by a Medusa shot or comparable.

[Jimm]

And those 70 points will always be worth it everytime the CC unit its carrying doesnt get instagibbed on the following turn since they can do nothing but stand there and gawk by a Medusa shot or comparable.

If they have madusa or vidacators just don't sit in the open, pod next to ruins or tight to the enemy force so they don't want to risk it. That and get some vets with melta or plasma into those threats as a priority. In a well balanced force you should easily be able to deal with a couple of madusa

 

I do tend to use dreadclaws but only in bigger games not at 2-2.5k which I think the original question was about.

[Slips]

Id use dreadclaws at every opportunity. Sure you could hop into ruins but if Gal Vorbak are the biggest threat youre presenting then theyre going to take the shot; not to mention some people run Typhons at 2.5k. Too, using barrage weapons is a lot less risky in 30k thanks to voxes and gets downright nasty when up against an optimized Iron Fire list. Or just phosphex quads in general.

 

Not to mention that dropping in close also leaves you open to a counter charge in unfavorable circumstances.

 

So, sure, you can mitigate the damage you take when using a Regular pod but its not as strong as what a dreadclaw can provide since it can always drop outside of any interceptor bubbles and Flat Out wherever you want later.

 

Id only really use regular pods on units that have good and strong shooting or are not assault units. Gal Vorbak have no real shooting to speak of and are an assault unit so for them specifically its a dreadclaw or you open yourself to the mercy of the dice gods and we all know the more dice youre forced to roll, the worse things can potentially go.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can pod in a support squad with melta to tackle stuff like Medusa. GV should definitely be in claws.

[Withershadow]

Yep you are right but you pay +70 points for this protection compared to the normal pod.

Other folks have already harped on this, but I'll add my voice to the chorus.  How many Gal Vorbak would die without that AV12 4+ jink?  Would be more than 70 points worth of models?  Would it be the whole unit?  Is that 70 points really that much to ensure you get to charge what you want to charge?

 

Dropping in ruins is silly, because presumably the idea is to get into grips with your enemy.  Having the battlefield force your hand on deployment, and deploying at a distance in potentially difficult terrain since pretty counter-intuitive for a focused melee unit with no guns.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Withershadow

[Baluc]

Speaking of Zardu and Daemons. I'm looking at allying in some heavy hitters, namely a GUO, and a Flying Nurgle DP, anyone have any experience with Daemon MC in 30k?

[RedFox]

Question : I'm looking to create a force that combine both daemons and cultists with Word Bearers.

 

So I was thinking of using the Army of Compliance army list with Zardu...But he needs to be the Warlord to have access to the allied daemon detachment and I really wanted to include Lorgar too...and primarchs always need to be the Warlord right? What to do ?

[Withershadow]

Can't take daemon allies in that Rite with Lorgar, but you can summon them. If you want Lorgar + daemons, Dark Brethren is your best bet.

[Kaiser_von_Hugal]

What would be a good base for a Last of the Serrated Sun list?   2000 points.

 

I understand that I need to have some element of the army NOT in pods and deployed so that I dont auto-lose when going second.   What would you include in this part of the army to ensure youre not getting tabled before your pods can come in?  

 

At 2000 points, Im thinking of going with multiple armored units to ensure one survives.   A dereado, Lascannon predator, damocles and a Cortus contemptor with CF, Grav.   Then for the remainder, 2 Jump Pack IC's (a Praetor and a Chaplain, I like jumpacks for the added mobility) 5 Gal Vorbak in a dreadclaw, 2 10man Veterans kitted to destroy armor in drop pods, 2 5man flamer units Support tacticals in pods.

[Argel Tal]

I'd say 5 pods including one dreadclaw, one GV squad, one master of legion (praetor or Zardu or Erebus), one centurion, one tac squad 1/2 support squad with plasma/melta to put the characters, 0/1 vet squad for sniper and for the back line some rapiers and some tanks of your choice like sicarran or contemptor mortis. Not sure the Damocles is worth it for only 2 drop pod rolls. 

 

And why jumpacks for characters if they cannot join any jump pack units ? Btw you list doesn't have 2 compulsory troop choices. 

[Kaiser_von_Hugal]

That was an oversight   I appreciate you picking up on that.   I made additional adjustments considering the following:

 

Can I stop a Flare Shielded Spartan/Malcador or an Ionic-Flare Shielded Knight?
Can I survive an army with 6+ Phosphex Quad Mortars?
Am I mobile enough to take objectives?
Can my list survive contact with a Primarch or Leviathan?

 

I also wanted to emphasize Leadership debuffs for the opponent.

 

 

Erebus

Zardu Layak

Mhara Gal with Warpfire Plasma and Tainted Power claw

Deredeo Dreadnaught with Aiolos missiles

2 Laser Destroyer Rapiers

5x Gal Vorbak, Dark Martyr with AA and PF, Drop Pod  (With the debuffs, Im thinking alot of units will be pinned).

5x Meltagun Support Squad in Pod

10x Tact Squad, SGT with AA and Melta bombs in a Pod

10x Tact Squad, SGT with AA and Melta bombs in a Pod

10x Tact Squad, SGT with AA and Melta bombs in a Pod

 

Enemy units within 12 inches of Erebus use their lowest leadership value

Aiolos missiles force pin checks

Mhara Gal's Plasma cannon forces pin checks at -1 and his fear checks are at -2

Each pod in this RoW forces a pin check when it lands

and the Gal Vorbak and Layak are demons also forcing fear checks checks

 

Can Layak ride with Erebus or does his demon status prevent? 

 

Layak will chose Summoning, Cursed Earth and Incursion

Erebus will select from Biomancy

 

 

[Argel Tal]

Love the idea of using Erebus combined witht the pinning tests. But for 2K points, 2 praetor level HQ is a bit too much IMO. I think, I'd keep only Erebus and take a cheap centurion with burning lore to get some dices during the psy phase. Then you should look to take a dreadclaw for you assault units to be sure to get some good assault roll and finally 3 tac squads is a bit too much. I think it will be better to swap one or two squads for units with real range firepower like seekers, vets or more support depending on what models you own and you prefer. The advantage of seekers and snipe vets is that they bring some decent anti MEQ/TEQ shots while still being able to score like a taq squad. For the Mhara Gal it seems a bit overcosted but myabe with Erebus debuff it gets more points effective (for the same price you can have more or less a leviathan)

[Withershadow]

By "drop pod" on the Gal Vorbak, I hope you mean Dreadclaw.

 

Also the only place for your characters is with the melta support squad, which seems weird.

[Kaiser_von_Hugal]

It is indeed a normal pod.  The reason I feel I can shave points there in this list is due to the number of leaderships checks and the way I can modify your leadership.   Id much prefer to attach Erebus to my Gal Vorbak, but am unable.

 

I have struggled with deciding between Mhara Gal vs the Leviathan.   I might just field Mhara proxied as a Leviathan.   The Grav-flux bombard also forces pin checks but I like that Mhara messes with Leadership better.   Admittedly, the Leviathan is better more generally, its short-ranged weapons is why I went with Mhara.  

 

To make most of your changes:

 

Erebus

Command squad 5x, 2 power weapons in a pod.

Centurion with Burning Lore - SAVES 95 points and I lose deamon summoning as a trade off.

Mhara Gal with Warpfire Plasma and Tainted Power claw

Deredeo Dreadnaught with Aiolos missiles

2 Laser Destroyer Rapiers

5x Gal Vorbak, Dark Martyr with AA and PF, upgraded to a DREADCLAW Drop Pod.

5x Meltagun Support Squad in Pod

5x Meltagun Support Squad in Pod (could be a plasma squad for variety)

10x Tact Squad, SGT with AA and MB's in a Pod

 

Feels a little too brittle - i could exchange the Command sqd for a 2nd Tact SQD

Edited January 15, 2017 by Kaiser_von_Hugal