Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Hyaenidae]

Just to be clear, I'm still down (matter of fact, want) with Dorn dying violently, and his Legion ceasing to exist as a functioning force. But, I would like to keep a handfull of the Fists alive, to (eventually) act in function as the Knights Errant. Gathering survivors and loyalists, eventually becoming something like either the beginnings of the Inquisition, or perhaps (just thought of this) the Black Knights Chapter....

[Conn Eremon]

Well, there goes my favorite Legion of the Damned idea.

 

You know, Dorn's survivors could make an excellent foundation for Wade's Black Watch.

[Wade Garrett]

I don't know, Cormac.

 

Dorn descended Astartes in a force devoted to taking a horde of zealots in black armor waving close combat weapons while screaming "BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROR GOD!" and pile driving said horde into xenos, mutants, and heretics?

 

That's crazy talk! Why, they wouldn't even have Centurions!

;)

[Hyaenidae]

anyone mentions Centurions ever again, other than as a rank, I will lose my :cuss .

[Conn Eremon]

All Centurions shall hereby have the rank of Centurion.

 

1000heathens will now always wonder who we mean when we say it, never knowing for sure.

 

Wade: You want some irony to go with all that sarcasm?

[Wade Garrett]

That's that thing the IV Legion beats their enemies to death with, right?

 

Anyway, the Black Watch is fairly different from the canonical Grey Knights or Deathwatch (in that their equipment is junk, and they're all expendable in that special 40k meaning of the word) so if Heathens wants his his Fists to be something like those guys they'd be all wrong.

 

And that leads to a new issue:

If we go with Corax offing Malcador as what puts Fulgrim on his guard, who founds the Inquisition and Grey Knights equivalents?

 

Ollanus Pious?

[Hyaenidae]

John Grammticus.

[Wade Garrett]

We'd need to untangle him from the Cabal, then.

 

My preference would be via having Sanguinus and Kor Phaeron feed most of the Cabal to daemons but that may be my disgust for the way that particular sub plot is swallowing the Heresy talking.

[Hyaenidae]

We'd need to untangle him from the Cabal, then.

 

My preference would be via having Sanguinus and Kor Phaeron feed most of the Cabal to daemons but that may be my disgust for the way that particular sub plot is swallowing the Heresy talking.

 

Approved.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

<p>I now have the image of Sanguinius welcoming daemons to an all you can eat barbecue with Erebus cooking up a "Eldrad roast"</p>

<p>I meant Erebus :p</p>

[Wade Garrett]

Why would Lorgar, the Emperor's loyal Hunting Hound, be involved in a vile celebration of diabolism presided over by the mad God King of Colchis?

[Ace Debonair]

Why would Lorgar, the Emperor's loyal Hunting Hound, be involved in a vile celebration of diabolism presided over by the mad God King of Colchis?

Easy - Lorgar is the best cook out of the Primarchs, so Sanguinius asked him very nicely to cook some aliens for his buddies.

Cormac, excuse my brain for getting it's dumb mode on, but what makes being the 11th Primarch found so special? I didn't realise it had any significance.

I'm cool with your list, I should add, I'm just curious.

Heinrich - Konrad Dominus is pretty much the most badass name in this or any other variation of 40k. The mere act of saying it out loud is accompanied by explosions and killer guitar riffs.

[Conn Eremon]

11 looks like the Roman numeral II, which is the Legion my Chapter was at its second iteration, after being changed from XI, 11. No other significance

[Brother Heinrich]

Heinrich - Konrad Dominus is pretty much the most badass name in this or any other variation of 40k. The mere act of saying it out loud is accompanied by explosions and killer guitar riffs.

Haha, very well then. Konrad Dominus "The Headsman of Baal" he shall be.

[Ace Debonair]

11 looks like the Roman numeral II, which is the Legion my Chapter was at its second iteration, after being changed from XI, 11. No other significance

Ah, ok.

I was in full-scatterbrained mode and had no idea if there was something else I'd missed.

Your list seems pretty much spot on from my perspective, anyway.

[Conn Eremon]

IX Legion – Angels

Primarch – Sanguinius the Savior King

Home World – Colchis

Heraldry – Winged droplet of blood

Colors – Black armor with red trim and markings

Tactics – Shock assault, deep striking, multiple command layers, heavy use of auxiliary and mortal personnel, ideological actions

Warcry – “We descend on wings of fire!”

 

Not sure what color scheme Gree might have already set forth, so I’m running with the depiction of Sanguinius I had in Jonson’s discovery. You know how Lorgar appears golden-skinned because of the rows of tiny, golden script etched upon him? Same principle, but with Sanguinius’ armor. Though his armor is, technically, black, it is covered in its entirety in tiny red script that, unless scrutinized or you have the enhanced eyes of a post-human, the whole appears a dark, dark red. Applying it to the Legion at large and you get a black-armored Legion covered in red markings, trim and script. As far as the heraldry is concerned, I suppose the canon Blood Angels symbol is still plenty accurate. Any ideas, though?

 

I did change it from Celestial Angels to just “Angels.” Thought that had more punch, and allowed for multiple epithets to be attached accordingly, such as the Celestial Angels and Angels of Death. I was thinking that they wouldn’t refer to their Chapters as Chapters, so it would be ‘the Angels of the Serrated Sun.’

 

Combat Doctrine is literally a combination of the Blood Angels and the Word Bearers.

 

 

 

XV Legion – Ordú Claíomh (Order of the Sword)

Primarch – Magnus the Ghost Fox, the Red-Maned King

Home World – Caliban

Heraldry – Celtic knotwork tree

Colors – Wine-red armor inlaid with white pearl in knotwork patterns

Tactics – Rapid reaction forces and esoteric tactics

Motto – “Beidh ríthe leanúint liom.” (“Kings will follow me.”)

 

Heathens said he intended Magnus to be referred to as the Ghost Fox more often than the Red-maned, but I myself am rather fond of it. So I moved it over to replace the canon “Crimson King” title. Still sounds bad :cuss , in my personal opinion. It may in fact be the most bad :cuss nickname a Primarch could have, topping canon’s Wolf King or Battle King.

 

Heraldry and colors are Heathens’. I had thought for colors a lighter shade of green as opposed to the red, but including it alongside would make the Chapter look Christmasy.

 

The only thing he told me about how he intended his witch-knights to fight was “biker psykers,” which sounds more than a little awesome. Not sure what else I could add to make it more rounded, though.

 

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

 

Prior to the VI’s reunion with Leman Barbedor, they spend a lot of time hunting for him on the outer edges of Imperial advancement, alongside the Rogue Trader Militants. I’ve been thinking that this would forge a relationship between them, as deep in the outskirts they have only each other to rely on. For the Rogue Traders, the VI Legion provides the heavy muscle that allows them to break through and survive ordeals that would have crippled them otherwise. In return, the VI maintains a link to the Imperium and direct link to a source of recruitment, the Rogue Trader fleets themselves. Eventually, the VI and the Rogue Traders are pretty intermingled, with many family scions rising through the ranks within the Legion itself. As many Rogue Traders began as powerful opponents to the Emperor’s will, this would make many recruits deposed princes and lordlings. Instilling a sense of nobility and the mentality of the exiled.

 

When Leman Barbedor is found and the Legion becomes the Red Corsairs, this relationship is only enhanced by their Primarch’s involvement. When the Red Corsairs declare for Corax, they drag many Rogue Trader Militants with them, effectively blinding the Imperium along the border and creating havoc.

[Wade Garrett]

Cormac, have you read the Space Marine Battles book Death of Antagonis?

 

The description of the Chaos warband in that book, the Swords of Epiphany, closely matches how I thought the Angels should look: Intricately artificed gold armor with white trim, sculpted and adorned with beatific and seraphic themes.

 

I would advocate the IX Legion use white and silver for their armor, possibly with tabards and hoods. Mainly because I imagine that golden armor is the hallmark of the Emperor and his Custodians, and thus off limits to a mere Astartes Legion.

 

What I'm picturing is something like the angels from the Diablo franchise, except as Space Marines, if that makes a lick of sense.

 

-------------------------

 

Also, I think we should have a Loyalist vs Loyalist battle in the confused early days of the Heresy that becomes known in the secret histories as "The Day of Unshed Tears" (inspired by a very evocative line in Prospero Burns about the Spireguard facing the Wolves, describing it as what happens when unyielding loyalty meets unyielding loyalty) and also, last call for Maccrage Angron and the War Hounds! Last call before I grab them for me!

[Conn Eremon]

Hm. It is a nice look, but I had imagined the Angels as thinking of themselves as angelic, viewing themselves as beatific, but in actuality appearing dark and near daemonic.

 

But it is a nice look, and we do have a Sanguinary Guard to expand upon.

 

So why don't we apply that look, of golden armor and marble markings, covered with a white, hooded tabards not unlike canon Dark Angels, to the Sanguinary Host, the elite of the Legion of Angels, led by First Captain Kor Phaeron, the Master of the Choirs and the Power of the Thrones.

 

Edit: I'm cool with some loyalist on loyalist action. Maybe someone needs convincing of Fulgrim's veracity. So long as it doesn't end with a dead Primarch, as that treads on the Guilliman Heresy a bit.

 

What about Fulgrim and Konrad? If Konrad is first of the belief that Corax, the Emperor's proxy, is in the right and Fulgrim is attempting to usurp power, he would intervene. He is the Headsman after all.

 

Wait for no I'm alpharius to show up. He deserves the chance at Angron, if he wants it. Let's say by the end of this week, he's yours if no one claims him.

[Wade Garrett]

That's fine. As I said, I have three guys to play with already, so if anyone else wants the Battle King they can have him. But if he's just twisting in the wind...

 

So, the etheral "angelic" appearance is the mark of the Legion elite? That seems like something that could be fun to play with in their beliefs...where they began as these red and black "monsters" and when they prove themselves to the Primarch and the gods they are remade as these beautiful luminous beings.

[Conn Eremon]

It fits well with the finely delineated hierarchy the Angels would have.

 

The Sanguinary Priests need something, too. I like the idea of keeping the Blood Angels combination of Chaplains and Apothecaries, hyper-religiousized (Nobody asked you, squiggly red line!) to more fit with the Colchisian Angels. Like the Word Bearers, they'd be outside the line of command but highly placed in spiritual authority, making the High Priest equivalent to the First Captain as directly subordinate to the Primarch. I suppose Erebus works, but I need to re-read Fear to Tread to see if there are any Terran Blood Angels. Raldoran, Azkaellon and Amit should have a spotlight if they remain with the Angels and are not going to be with the Executioners.

 

I don't see that duo being as manipulative and duplicitous as in canon. Lorgar was more fey scholar who needed to be cajoled to their truth. Sanguinius is a God-King, a divine crown earned by blood and fire, wrought by his own hands. He is a warrior, the only to ever defeat to Ferrous Mordax in practice duels, whose swordsmanship is as sublime as Magnus', whose dynamic charisma rivals that of Lupercal. Ol' Kol and No-Face 'bus would be more subordinated to Sanguinius, less likely to pursue their own agendas. Perhaps, anyways.

 

Edit: My original Sanguinius post had him viewing his darker nature as part and parcel of his divinity. It seems fitting that the Legion care little for keeping their desires and rages at bay, highlighting their monstrous appearance in other's eyes.

 

"You look on me with disgust, brother? How different are we, who both give in to our rages? You fear it like it makes us lesser for it. It does not. It is what makes us so pure, so powerful. Look at the ashes your wrath has wrought upon my perfect city and tell me it is not divine! We are gods, wrought in a god's own image. Say the words and put an end to the lies!"

 

+SANGUINIUS+

[Wade Garrett]

I can see that, yes. Part and parcel of being a god is the will and the means to gratify one's whims and unleash wrath.

(See Zeus, Poseidon, or any Greek god, really. Or the Book of Revelations...)

 

Another thought that I had was that unlike the canon Word Bearers, the Angels are encouraged to form bonds of friendship with their mortal levies. So that when they herd them into the guns of the enemy the enemy they are offering the gods something it will pain them to lose.

 

"A sacrifice must have value if it is to have meaning."

 

Edit:

This isn't my attempt to make the Angels fuzzy huggable Chaos Marines, rather, the inspiration was a story I've heard about how the Nazis would train young boys for the SS.

 

Supposedly, each boy would be given a German shepherd to train and care for as he went through the academy, and as the final test before graduation he would be given a garrote and ordered to strangle his dog to death.

 

If he obeyed the order, he graduated.

[Conn Eremon]

Hm. I'm of the opposite mind on the levies thing. That sounds completely Word Bearer-y to me, and I would like to see the Angels be more aloof and uncaring.

 

Found no evidence of Terran Blood Angels through Google, though I did discover an old argument on the B&C about whether or not there was a Legion prior to Sanguinius' discovery, so who knows.

[Wade Garrett]

DO the canon Word Bearers care about their zealot minions? At all? That is certainly not the impression I got from Know No Fear ("Mercy is a waste of ammunition.") Betrayer ("They are the scum and dregs of the galaxy, Khârn.") or the Dark Disciple series.

 

But your Legion, your baby. I was just trying to think of a schtick for the Angels that wouldn't tread on the Sons of Barabbus or the Red Corsairs use of mortal personnel.

[Conn Eremon]

I distinctively remember a Word Bearer giving that same sacrifice quote. Whether or not they do care is up in the air, and I would say is honestly not so. But the whole "sacrifice means nothing unless it is something of worth" is.

 

I don't know. There may be some overlap now. I see Barabbas leading mortal forces as, well, you know, who else is going to do it? At least, as good as me, Barabbas? Absolutely nobody, precisely. The Red Corsairs view them as cannon fodder, press-ganged and easily replenished at any port.

 

The Angels . . . Well, what is the point of being angels, sons of a God made flesh, without peons to scrabble at your feet in adoration of you? Unlike the Word Bearers, who lead their flock in worship of greater powers, the Angels place themselves as the object of worship.

 

"We have slain all the gods and now sit upon their thrones."

 

Out with the old, in with the new.

 

But when they are scolded for their behavior, brought to their knees in the filth like common earth-bound mortals, well. Sometimes the classics need their veil of dust brushed off . . .

[Wade Garrett]

Barabbus's thoughts on the subject are that Astartes are difficult to replace, mortals considerably less so. I think his Pre Heresy force would look something like Huron's Tyrant Legion from the Badab War, with its attached Imperial Army elements commanded by Astartes because sheep need a shepherd, do they not?

 

Other ideas I considered were that since the Thirteenth's gene seed has a far higher success rate of implantation than other Primarchs, the Sons tend to have far more men than suits of armor from Mars, leading them to deploy scratch forces in cheaper, simplified power armor created on Barabbas's Pentience Worlds, a preference for melee weapons because those never jam or run short of ammo, and semi automatic bolters to encourage careful marksmanship and ammo conservation.

 

Running out of supplies is a bit of a personal bugaboo for Roboute.