Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Adra'Melek]

Veneratii Urien was once Centurion of Clan Vurgaan's 4th Order (or Order Quarii), a warrior feared for his uncompromising rule, Urien was a Terran rather than a Medusan, and one who fought with the Xth Legion long before its union with its Primarch. Massacre

 

Not much but it's a name :)

[Conn Eremon]

Wade could have the Storm Walker, the Legion Commander who was on the verge of molding the X into his image before Ferrus Manus came about.

 

Was Tarvitz a Terran or a Chemosian?

 

Since you are looking for Medusan Iron Hands, not Terran, then Gabriel Santar is yours, Ace.

[Wade Garrett]

Don't forget Frater Thamatica, the best Iron Father ever!

 

Although I'm not sure how his SCIENCE!!! will fit in with Fulgrim's Legion of heroes.

 

Urien might be a candidate for one of those who 'Ferruses" himself after Vilamus, as he watches the Legion's quest to create the ultimate xenoskiller becoming mere self indulgence without the guiding hand of their gene sire.

 

(Or he could be the X's Lhorke figure, but rather than tread ground ADB covered so well I'd like it if this old Legion Master saw a purpose and value in Mordax's vision of a galaxy full of dead aliens.)

[Conn Eremon]

Frater Thamatica, (re)inventor of the 'Immortals' implant?

[Adra'Melek]

For the Infernal Legion the only Terran Death Guard appears to be Garro. All the Pyre Guard appear to be Terran.

 

So...who was Garro and how can I twist him? There isn't really an open rebellion against the Emperor in this one is there? (unless I lost track again :)). I was Corax trying to kill off the Emperor in secret and some other rumbling and then civil war...right?

 

So, Infernal Legion are loyal to the Emperor but unforgiving of relapses. Emperor gets taken down and it becomes more extreme, punishing transgression more severely and for less cause, until Corax sets them on the Jackal.  Any reason for Garro not to go along? Would he get caught up in the collective fury that is building within the Legion, would he buy that the Johnson betrayed and demand to be a part? A tragic equivalent of Khârn? Or perhaps a bit unnerved by the ritual branding of the Legion and a bit hesitant about the developments?

 

I was thinking of a character that is unable to pass the Promethean Rite (it involves resilience and withstanding intense pain, equivalent of surviving at Deathfire). He's tried may times but keeps failing so he's horrifically scarred, very experienced but not brought into the 8th Circle. Remains in a Vigilator type role. A bit bitter and twisted he heads the assassination squads. Could that be Garro? Unable to join the Primarch's inner circle?

[Conn Eremon]

I can see Garro going traitor in this, and I will expand on the why when I get my lunch in a few minutes.

[Adra'Melek]

Lunch? Ah, time difference :)

[Conn Eremon]

Aye, one of the annoying things about being -8 GMT is that this is a rather eurocentric board. Wade and Kol are pretty much the only two I can think of off the top of my head that I regularly converse with that are from the States. Otherwise, most activity takes place when I am asleep to when I get my lunch.

 

I can see the Legions sent after Jonson's Palatinate being similar to the canon Space Wolves, Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guard sent after Prospero. At this time, there is open rebellion against Corax's reign as Warmaster, figureheaded (only because I don't know if he is actually leading the opposition or if he is just the spark) by Fulgrim. This is entirely a war between the Primarchs, not against the Emperor (not openly anyways). Corax sees Jonson and his First Legion as a major obstacle, so when things just start to spiral out of his control he maneuvers others to negate that threat. Which, technically he is successful at, as the First Legion does nothing in the war except defend themselves and their declared borders. First it is Dorn and Mordax, however when others confront him and those two kill each other off, he sends in the Astral Wolves and the Infernal Guard. Again, by this point there is open rebellion against his rule, but the war has not yet progressed to the point that Corax's side has become the obviously villainous and Chaos-corrupted. 

 

So, from Adra'Malek's viewpoint, Corax could still stand for the Emperor, could still be His proxy by right. So at the beginning of the war in the Palatinate, Malek could still be loyal to the Emperor. 

 

By extension, Garro would still follow Malek. He is one of the Great Captains of the Dusk Raiders, once leading the Seventh Great Company to war alongside the Emperor Himself. He bears the aquila upon his chest and above his head. His heart was forged upon Terra, and for Terra would his life be willingly spent. So Garro could be a very useful warrior during this time, fighting against the First Legion under Adra'Malek.

 

That said, we have Adra'Malek fall at this time. When the Infernal Guard leave the Palatinate, they are Khornates and Malek is a Daemon Prince. Or that might have been others of us expanding on them in your absence, I can't quite recall, so perhaps you intend for that to go differently. But if we keep it, it means the cycle of taint to corruption to fall might be a bit more rushed than usual. But could still be done, I think.

 

-- -- -- -- -- -- --

 

Gil Avar of the Nam Uggae, the Host of the Red Creed, has ascended to become one of the higher powers. With the bodies of Angels and the souls of Daemons, Gil Avar and his Host have gained great favor in the eyes of their lords, their Corporeal Master and the Heavenly Powers. He and his kin were unleashed upon the Imperium for the first time in the thick forests of Caliban, and not even the brethren of the Ghost Fox could stop their wrath. Following the devastation of an entire world, Gil Avar's Host swelled with numbers as more Angels wished to forever meld their fates to the Legion's new calling. 

 

Tensions rose between Gil Avar and Kor Phaeron when Sanguinius, stating his desire to ensure the Red Creed's survival in the coming Siege of Terra, moved two whole Companies from Kor Phaeron's command to Gil Avar's.

 

-- -- -- -- -- -- --

 

Hey Wade, I've been thinking that Barabbas' use of religion to control the masses might be a good conduit for Sanguinius' manipulations. Something like that Sanguinius deliberately revealed aspects of his followers that really showed off their loyalty to him, their utter dedication to his every word, to Barabbas, knowing that it would be something he would latch onto as a positive thing. After all, Sanguinius is the God-King, not the Messiah-Preacher that Lorgar was. Others would spread his word for him. 

 

Then the second manipulation, when the Black Angel whispers into Barabbas' ear about a way in which he could best prepare for the assault on Prospero.

[Adra'Melek]

Yeah I was involved in the whole daemon prince, fall to Khorne thing. I've been trying to think of ways of getting them nearly there beforehand and being tipped over the edge, rather than it be a massive leap.

But yeah, that's kind of how I see it. I can't remember if the Astral Claws go first and then the Infernal come in when it's a stalemate or if we went in together.

Just found out my brother got me Night Lords conversion pack for christmas. Haven't told him I might not be doing them

[Conn Eremon]

I am sure there are ways for you to prepare them for Khorne without taking them away from the Emperor. Making them griefstricken does work. The loss of the Emperor turning them slowly into a "Blood for the Blood Emperor!" Legion. Just give them something for their blood to boil over.

 

I do believe we went with the first option, that the Astral Wolves are first sent after the First Legion, but end up a stalemate. Lupercal finds the orderly worlds of the Palatinate rather resistant to his anarchistic charms and Jonson finds Lupercal too wily to get a good grip on. Enter the deciding factor, the Infernal Guard.

 

Which is why I also proposed that Malek's ascension is by way of executing Lupercal himself, as it explains why Jonson was able to beat these two Legions away without seeming too powerful, gives a nice "Oh :cuss " moment and wraps up the conundrum of what to do with Lupercal, who I believe is not wanted alive post-Heresy. But I'm still not sure if that idea was accepted or rejected, which is why I keep bringing it up. Hopefully I didn't just forget what the response to it was and I'm not just being annoying.

[Wade Garrett]

On the one hand, I had the idea that Barabbas would have dreamed up the Lectio based on his father and the other warlords presented themselves to the peasants below.

 

Now, Sanguinus...I'm picturing something like the scene in the original Conan movie, when James Earl Jones gives his answer to the riddle of steel.

 

"Come to me, my children! Come down to me!" and there go the Legion serfs!

 

And Barabbas sees the uses to which such devotion could be put and Sanguinus sees that the Roboute fish has swallowed the bait.

 

Hmm...though I'm not sure why he'd be trying to get Barabbas to

set up an Emperor cult.

 

Thought:

Barabbas is one of the Primarchs with the Emperor when he arrives on Colchis. Bonus points if his Legion are tasked with blowing up Sanguinus's temples.

 

Still, the hold Sanguinus had over the Colchisians impressed the Dark Tyrant. Surely he can repurpose this? Questioning and rebelling against the son of a mortal dictator is one thing, but the son of a god...

 

And now there has to be one seen where a fully corrupted Ignatius Grulgor sees his Nurglish warpcraft countered by the faith of a Lectio member and goes into full on Minotaur/Blackened Fist/Infernal Guard meltdown over it.

 

"What the [redacted]? We made all that up! HE'S NOT A GOD! HE'S NOT HE'S NOT HE'S NOT!"

[Conn Eremon]

The part I was focusing on was the reverence given to Astartes and Primarch, as angels and sons of God.

 

Besides, what better insult could be given to one such as the Emperor than to propagate belief in his divinity?

 

"Yes, my puppets. Continue to dance to our tune!"

Angel Marduk, last words before execution on Ophelia VI

[Wade Garrett]

An insult to the Emperor? Wouldn't it be considered a blasphemy against the True Pantheon, to say that this little man in his metal suit is the equal of the Shaper of Fate, Prince of Pleasures, Lord of Skulls, and Father of Decay?

 

I feel that upon finding out what beliefs Roboute's been spreading among his compliant worlds, the Angel's reaction would be incandescent fury that later boils down to seething hatred.

 

That muckraking plodder has the audacity to assign the Emperor worship and authority that apes that Sanguinus knew on Colchis? OH WARP NO!

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah, but they're like, all cool with it and stuff.

 

 

Alright, I'll drop it. I am cool with it being something Barabbas comes up with on his own upon witnessing the power of Colchis' belief in their God-King.

 

I am definitely down with the Tyrant going all Monarchia on Colchis. I believe Barabbas was found just before Sanguinius, so the timing works.

 

 

Just double-checked and yeppers.

 

Though now I notice that Sanguinius is found well after Jonson and Angron.

 

In Jonson's piece, both Angron and Sanguinius are present when he is found. I suppose we could just forget about that, but wasn't it those two that made that original piece work in the first place?

[Wade Garrett]

After searching out the first Jonson piece in the N & N thread, I agree that Angron should be there, laying the seeds for a Best Enemies Forever relationship that lasts thousands of years right from the get go.

 

(You know, in canon I don't think we have any examples of Primarchs who loathe one another on the loyalist side. The traitors, sure. Mortarion/Magnus, Fulgrim/Lorgar, Angron/Everybody, but the loyalists were all one big happy family).

 

Sanguinus does nothing but stand ominously behind Jonson, and while I intend no disrespect to the God King's ability to loom in a sinister fashion, I don't think

it makes or breaks the snippet.

 

Oh, and if you're still trying to pick an emblem for the Red Corsairs:

 

Bolt pistol crossed with a cutlass on a red background. Simple. Piratical. Heavy use of red. Or a red pistol and cutlass on a black badge, so it's visible on their red armor.

[Conn Eremon]

I am not sure I want something that obviously piratical, honestly.

 

I mean, at the end of the day, that theme is meant to be more submerged than what we have joked about, right?

 

But thanks for the effort and reminder.

 

We may modify the list to incorporate a younger Angron. I don't want to make Jonson found later, because having him found after Fulgrim makes him another candidate for War master in opposition to Corax. But we can compromise and move the two of them closer.

 

I had intended Sanguinius to be there and just loom to give the idea that Jonson is a definite potential villain. His whole purpose is to cast a shadow on Jonson. But such a thing could occur later without much incident.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, in canon, we have World Eaters with a world getting et, Imperial Fists and Iron Hands with fists and hands, Death Guard with a skull, and so on.

 

Of course, there are also non intuitive emblems like the Scars lightning bolts, the Emperor's Children eagle claw, and such. Up to you.

 

I think it's okay, as long as we don't give them a Jolly Roger logo, hookhand bionics, parrot cyberfamiliars, and represent rank by the size and ornamentation of one's hat.

 

But your Legion, your baby.

 

Also, Ace has said he was okay with Lupercal being killed by Perturabo during the Coup, but I don't think he's weighed in on a sacrifice to Khorne. ("You have been weighed in the measure and found wanting, brother. NOW BURN.")

[Conn Eremon]

Shoot, there goes my hierarchy setup.

 

But you do have a valid point.

 

Ironically, I was going to use the White Scars as an example. A Legion of GOES FAST and their symbol doesn't reflect that, does it? It's a lightnining bol- . . . Ah, hell it does. And so I erased it.

[Ace Debonair]

I don't mind how Lupercal dies, to be fair.

It would make Melek seem like a real badass if he kills Lupercal, and I'm totally ok with that.

So long as Lupercal isn't made to look like a pushover, then I'm very much ok with Adra'Melek taking him out.

[Wade Garrett]

Does anyone else recall that I posted a major Heresy era battle pitting the Imperial Army against the Traitor Legions, with the Army winning?

 

It was in the thread the forum ate. At any rate, I was going to use the Minotaurs and the ancestors of the Riverine Amphibious Assault regiment (Cajuns INNN! SPAAAACE!) as the parties involved.

 

That was before a lot of things were decided, though, specifically the Minotaurs and Blackened Fists fighting to near annihilation on Vilamus.

 

Now I'm not sure if there'd be enough of them left to have major defeats at Terra and elsewhere (although the use of orks, kroot, etc implanted with Butcher's Nails as throwaway shock troops would help out with the latter issue a bit).

 

Unrelated:

Post Heresy, the Legion symbol is still a bull, but now instead of a black silhouette it's pinkish white with Slaaneshi runes and various bronze piercings inlaid onto it.

 

Also on the Astartes vs humans front, when the Sons of Barabbas pull back to their Gaol worlds after Corax's death, they find themselves embroiled in planetary insurrections led by the Lectio they allowed to spread, something like "Black Hawk Down" except with old Nurgle Marines instead of Rangers and Delta force.

 

Also like BHD, they start slaughtering the opposition in teeming hordes, but the insurgents send out astropathic calls for "the true Angels of the God Emperor" to help them.

 

The Emperor's Children answer in force, although other forces get involved as well.

 

And the XIII are driven back, one world at a time, until Fulgrim confronts his brother (on Barbarus itself?)

 

XIII symbol Post Heresy/Coup:

Fist clutching a skull is replaced by a white skeletal claw.

[Wade Garrett]

Going back to the Tau for a second:

 

They've still got their caste system and their Etherals, but the whole thing has a much more militaristic tone, to fit with their battles for survival against the oppressive regimes of the eldar and the Imperium.

 

Fire Caste:

All Battlesuit pilots, all the time. Made up of the children who have performed the best in the battle simulations and training all Tau are put through nearly from birth.

 

They're good at what they do...but they are also brash, cocky, and convinced of Tau superiority. (See the Clans from Battletech).

 

The fact that they are almost all adolescents to young adults (the Tau equivalent of 16-28 in human years) plays a large part in this. Those who don't die or display enough aptitude to be elevated to the Water Caste are relegated to the Earth

caste once it is determined that age has begun to take its toll on the lightning reflexes needed to pilot a suit.

 

Earth Caste:

Those who didn't perform well enough as children to join the Fire Caste. The bulk of Tau society, they comprise technicians, medical personnel, cooks, and so on...but also the bulk of the line infantry and conventional forces.

 

Although sneered at by the Fire Caste for lacking the power granted battlesuits, the "Ash Warriors" of this latter group are a vital part of the Tau war effort.

 

As their ranks contain many former Fire Caste demoted due to age, Imperial commanders have often found Earth Caste forces to be much more tactically adept than their comparitively glory hungry and hot headed Fire brethren.

 

Air Caste:

Spies and scouts. It is believed the Air Caste makes heavy use of non Tau agents, with confirmed reports of human children (and those of other species) being taken in raids, bought from unscrupulous Trader dynasties, and otherwise acquired and then raised by the Air Caste to serve as infiltrators and covert operatives.

 

Water Caste:

Here I've got a couple of ideas. They're either elevated from the ranks of the other three if they show an aptitude for command, OR.....

 

The tacticians and strategists of the Water Caste are the result of Tau and Etheral efforts at artificially creating, not supersoldiers like the Astartes, but supercommanders. Prodigies and savants shaped by cybernetics, gene therapy, perception and cognition enhancing drug therapy, and so forth to be masters at commanding armies and fleets, at the cost of a dramatically shortened lifespan.

 

Think Grimdark Xenos Ender's Game.

 

Opinions?

[Conn Eremon]

Ender's Tau get's all of my yes. That's a nice idea. Running with the theme, Puretide could represent the aged ace pilot that ended the first alien war, mixed with the commanders of the orbital school, representing the ideal meant to be passed on to others, notably Farsight and Shadowsun.

 

I had also been thinking of the Tau, and considered renaming the castes. I ended up thinking it might be best to not change too much about them, but one thing I had considered was renaming the Earth Caste to the Bone Caste, representing their place within Tau society as the skeleton that holds everything together and the influence of the Eldar, with the Tau essentially back-engineering wraithbone into a semblance of it with which they can work with. More like how we manufacture cement than canon Eldar 'sing' their constructs into existence, but still a valuable material.

 

But perhaps that can be an informal nickname, or even one they find insulting, and just keep that aspect of wraithbone engineering. But it could fit with your "Ash Warriors" thing, as perhaps they utilize a wraithbone alloy for their armor.

 

So we have child-soldier Fire Caste

Free use of xenos technology Earth Caste

Free use of xenos masqueraders Air Caste

And Superman Project tacticians in the Water Caste.

 

With Ethereals so far unchanged and in charge.

 

As for your Sons of Barabbas, I remember that battle, but not the details of it. If you have it saved, repost it.

 

Considering the importance of Olympia in canon, and its reduced importance in our reality, perhaps we can have the final encounter and sacrifice occur there. It is one of his gaol worlds.

 

Plus, it could allow for Barabbas straight up abandoning Barbarus to destruction without a fight. Really show his pragmatic side, and lack of sentimentality. He could bleed himself and his Legion dry to defend it, or he can let the worthless ball of rock go and fortify himself in a more fortuitous manner among his chain of gaol worlds.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, Olympia has already been the site of the mother of all prison riots when Nicodemus and Konrad Dominus sprang Anubis from Roboute's dungeon.

 

As for having the populace of his world's rise up against him...in canon, Angron's ascension was in a moment of pure rage.

 

Barabbas becomes a Prince of the Plague God in a moment of pure despair. The Gaol worlds...HIS worlds, that he shaped so that dissidents and rebels would be made into useful citizens of the Imperium, are tearing themselves apart from within.

 

The brother he swore to follow is dead. Those who swore to fight beside him have fled. His Legion

suffers under Nurgle's touch, and all his enemies are closing in.

 

And then a voice speaks to him, the same one that told him how to save his sons from the mutation, hedonism, and rage that were devouring them during the horrible voyage to Prospero, telling him there is a way.

 

Not simply lying down and dying, oh no, but to endure, to make a pact with death and an alliance with decay.

 

And the Tyrant listens.

[Conn Eremon]

I am aware of Olympia's prior use, but I assumed Barabbas would have locked it back down by then. Up to you, though.

 

As for Barbarus, I was referring to the Scouring, of the Loyalists coming to burn the Traitors from their castles. Not civil war. But again, up to you.

[Wade Garrett]

Let me clarify:

 

The civil war breaks out when the Sons of Barabbas pull back to their network of bastille/bastion planets after the Siege of Terra, when the nascent Lectio condemns them as fallen angels who betrayed the God Emperor to serve a false divinity.

 

When the vengeful loyal Legions arrive, Barabbas's strongholds are assaulted from within and without, and so they fall.

 

Indeed, the XIII's garrisons might be targeted first precisely because they're experiencing internal strife.