Conn Eremon Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Really? I mean, I wasn't being serious about the slave thing, but would Barabbas the control freak who thinks trains run on time only when he is watching want an equal partner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 You have a point. Equal is probably too strong a word...what he wants are a few more Primarchs on Red Team who don't need him holding their hand every single monent of every campaign to keep them on the rails, and don't constantly rage against, laugh at, or utterly ignore his orders. A reliable lieutenant, was what I should have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 All sounds very cool. Just for clarification I'm [edit] NOT] dead set against Perpetuals, just saying if we don't want them, we don't need to have them. Just as if we want them we can have. The multiple sacrifices to slow Corax enough to let Anubis get to the throneroom sounds very nice. EDIT: so much for clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Damn, that makes Corax look like all kinds of a badass. I'm personally not sure what to think of the whole Perpetuals thing. If everyone else is against it, though, I have no problems in making as small a deal as possible out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 The throne room shook from the impossible war that raged outside as Anubis entered, even here, the roar of Daemon, astartes and machine fighting for the sould of mankind could be heard. He is halfway across the room, approaching the lone phanax of custodes at the foot of the throne when he stops. They have failed. His brothers. Valdor, Cryene, Sigismund and other great heros, stars that would have shone throughout the galaxy. All failed. How else is his brother, now so fallen in Pride and Envy, approaching this room. His work has been for nothing. Whilst not granting a full recovery, the container he bears would have started the process that would have brought back his father.He knows he will not get a chance to use it, Corax will see to that. But maybe, just maybe the Onyx lord thinks as he turns around, gathering energies long held back, preparing for what will be the most blatent use of his talents in oh so long.The strands of fate he knows all end in his death at this point. Not the death that would see him returned to the realm of the living, like those he suffrerd upon twisted Olympia. No, he muses as the door to the throne room starts to glow as the wards and marvels upon it valiantly yet ultimatly fruitlessly resist the arch traitors advance, this will be his final death, like that which so many of his sons have been introduced to. Readying his staff and blade, the latter now combined with that which could have been his Father's salvation, Anubis Ensarhaddon, the high king of Prospero, readies traps and spells, speaks words of power and incantations that have not been heard for in many an age knowing this is his aching hour.His doom has come, and for all the words of derision and whispers of weakness, his care for mankind or walking of a more subtle path,Lanista Corax shall learn that he is just as much a warrior as any of his Brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Looked good Ridcully. Sounds like we have a consensus. To clarify, Corax the Warmaster is attacked by a lot of heroes. But the Chaos-juiced bad :cuss Hulk smashes the lot of them. Corax the Holy :cuss ing Powerful walks into the Throneroom where Anubis the Everlasting waits for him. Using his own immortality as a weapon, Anubis dies a final death that strips the Warmaster of the powers of his "Brothers-to-be." Which is awesome. Fulgrim and Konrad drag themselves in after them. They are bloody, broken and battered. They are beaten. But they refuse to stop fighting for as long as they yet live, no matter the impossibility. Anubis' sacrifice makes the impossible, possible. The Executioner beheads the arch traitor, pinned into place by the Dragon-Slayer's silver spear. There is no duel. This is not the climactic clash of titans, killing themselves upon each other's blades. There is only one titan, and countless heroes who threw themselves upon him until they could finally, at the very end, drag him down to their level and end him. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8q0su3HQU1qllbnao1_500.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Are we keeping some of the legions changing colours after the heresy? I've been thinking of possibly have the Solar tigers adopt a new scheme in honor of their fallen lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Do what you want. You will be creating Successors (or not, depending on the state of the Legion, I suppose), so remember that you can develop as many different color schemes as you'd like post-Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Do what you want. You will be creating Successors (or not, depending on the state of the Legion, I suppose), so remember that you can develop as many different color schemes as you'd like post-Heresy. You wanna start coming up with post-heresy colour schemes? As far as I knew aside from a few basic descriptions for the Chainsworn, Sons of Barabus and Blackened Fists there weren't even any pre-heresy colour schemes yet! EDIT: Come to think of it, has anyone even thought of Legion symbols? Some seem pretty obvious from the names but I didn't want to assume a legion's name was the same as their emblem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Mine would be a stylised version of my current avatar (right word?). Oh and I see a Daemon Primarch Adra'Melek being something akin to a Balrog. Daemon of fire and darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Emperor's Children and White Scars. Astral Wolves... are a bit trickier. I don't want them in black like the Raven Guard of canon, I don't want them in white because I already have the White Scars. I don't really want a mix of black and white because it looks a bit, well, generic, no matter what I do with the layout of the colours. I might try brown and grey in some mix or other, because I don't think we have another brown Legion and I bet I can get a good result from it. Legion symbols: White Scars retain their Canon one. Astral Wolves have the Luna Wolves' wolf-head emblem without the crescent moon. Emperor's Children would probably have a stylised silver spear, since I don't know how their original emblem would really fit with the legion anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Ace: Canon Ravenwing symbol is a winged hand gripping a sword. Replace the sword with a spear and you got a symbol that marries the two. Just an idea. Astral Wolves in canon Sons of Horus colors might be cool, but again, your call. Are you still having the White Scars swap colors from white to black to show their shift from open hands to closed fists? SanguiniusReborn: You can see what has already been said on colors/symbols in the 2nd post. I know the basis for mine have been covered, and some of the others. Edit:Though the First Legion is still undecided. I know they will retain their original black, but I am still unsure of what additional colors I will add in. The red-gold of Jonson's colors? A halved/quartered scheme on one pad to denote Cohort? Hm, actually that is too knightly, might fit better with the Orders of the Sword. Now that I think about it, red-gold could work, with Roman style banners that are Cohort specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Emperor's Children would probably have a stylised silver spear, since I don't know how their original emblem would really fit with the legion anymore. Perhaps it could be the silver spear held aloft by an eagle's claw? Or maybe an eagle in flight carrying the spear in it's talons? Hell, you could just cheat and copy the canon EC's winged claw and just alter it so that's holding the spear. EDIT: Another suggestion, how about a upwards pointing spear with a dragon's head (representing Asirnoth, this Fulgrim is the Medusan one right?) impaled upon it. (possibly with little thunderbolt bits coming from the sides for embelishment?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Emperor's Children would probably have a stylised silver spear, since I don't know how their original emblem would really fit with the legion anymore. Perhaps it could be the silver spear held aloft by an eagle's claw? Or maybe an eagle in flight carrying the spear in it's talons? Hell, you could just cheat and copy the canon EC's winged claw and just alter it so that's holding the spear. Copycat. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Emperor's Children would probably have a stylised silver spear, since I don't know how their original emblem would really fit with the legion anymore. Perhaps it could be the silver spear held aloft by an eagle's claw? Or maybe an eagle in flight carrying the spear in it's talons? Hell, you could just cheat and copy the canon EC's winged claw and just alter it so that's holding the spear. Copycat. Hey, you know what they say about great minds... Edit:Though the First Legion is still undecided. I know they will retain their original black, but I am still unsure of what additional colors I will add in. The red-gold of Jonson's colors? A halved/quartered scheme on one pad to denote Cohort? Hm, actually that is too knightly, might fit better with the Orders of the Sword. Now that I think about it, red-gold could work, with Roman style banners that are Cohort specific. Given Jonson's seemingly straightforward, no-nonsense attitude in this I imagine the First Legion's symbol would literally just be a great big roman numeral "I". I can see him thinking, "Well, you guys are the 1st Legion, point of pride there, everyone already knows you by that designation and you've built up a fearsome reputation to back it up and so why bother with a fancy name?" Blunt and straight to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Well, looks like another moment of great minds thinking alike. A stylized 'I' is what I had already put forth for them, I believe. I will reread the 2nd post (which I need to update) to be sure, but it sounds like you may need to as well. The first half is a rough timeline and description of events, second half focus on the character of the Legions themselves. It is all more or less up to date, just missing what we have in done in the last couple months or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Actually guys, I more sort of meant the canon EC symbol has very little to do with the Dragonslayer's legion. Our Fulgrim's not called the Phoenician, and there's no phoenix imagery in our version of the Emperor's Children. So the bird-wings don't make much sense. A dragon's wing might work, but I figure a simple stylized spear fits better since they're a Legion of Monster Hunters, rather than a Legion of Monsters. White Scars will still don the black tabards/robes and so forth when they're on the rampage, for definite. I couldn't get tabards on that version of the painter, but the colours look so much richer that I had to use it. Sons of Horus colours, eh? I'll have a play with that - might be able to do something with pale green and dark grey or black. EDIT: Forget that, pale green and white. What d'you reckon, guys? Any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 The wing represents the eagle which is the Emperor's symbol and they are his Children. That's what I thought. So Eagle wing with Talon grasping a spear could work. I think the spear piercing a dragon would be too busy for a Legion icon IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Aye, I think the wing is pre-Primarch, and therefore before the phoenix motifs. But if Ace doesn't want it, that is cool. Being a huge lover of spears, I do like the plain spear symbol. Besides, I can always use the Ravenwing/Spear idea for the Orders of the Sword, or perhaps a Successor. Again, I am a fan of the spear, aesthetically speaking, so it looks cooler in my head than the canon sword one. I really like the Astral Wolves too. It is a nice break from the usual colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Some notes I took while at home. making a new post since it is extensive. BRANNE NEV, Commander of the Raptors - Recruits - Lycaean, young teen during rebellion AGAPITO NEV, Commander of the Talons - Tactical Companies - Lycaean, young teen during rebellion SOLARO AN, Commander of the Hawks - Bikes, land speeders, aircraft crew, Scouts - Lycaean (too young) ALONI TEV, Commander of the Falcons - Assault, Dreadnoughts - Terran ARENDI (killed at the dropsite) - Captain of Corax's Guard - Unknown birth Ace, were you still unsure which of the canon Heresy Raven Guard were available to you? I know some of us were unsure of who was Terran or from the Legion home world, but I was skimming through Deliverance Lost and found some that might be useful to you. You might already know all this, but the effort was made nonetheless. After Isstvan, there are four Commanders. Branne Nev, Agapito Nev, Solaro An and Aloni Tev. Aloni Tev is a Terran, which makes him a Chainsworn now. Solaro An is the Commander of the Hawks, made up of the Legion's remaining recon forces. He is from Liberation, but as a very young child who did not participate in the liberating. Branne Nev is the Commander of the Raptors, which will be the Legion's recruits. With the Legion all but destroyed, this is meant as a very prominent, honorable position. He is the one entrusted with the future of the Legion. Agapito Nev is the Commander of the Talons, the tactical companies. This makes it sound like Agapito is the backbone of the Legion. Branne and Agapito are brothes who fought for Corax in the rebellion as young teens, so they are prime examples of potential Astral Wolf commanders. Of the two, I think Agapito is the superior. Branne is a highly decorated officer, but the thing that pushes him above the rest is his rescue of the Legion at Isstvan. So Agapito might be a good First Captain, or second in command. However, if you wanted to create a Mournival-like authority within the Astral Wolves, all four of these could work. Well, except Aloni Tev, but you have Garviel Loken to replace him. Additionally, there was talk of an Arendi. He was only mentioned once, when Branne wanted his position instead of the master of recruits. He was the captain of Corax's guard, slain at Isstvan. No idea whether he is Terran or Lycaean, but he could work anyways. I'll keep the tiny bit of notes up top in case it contains useful information to you, if any of this is. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I was thinking of 40k's Codices, and how they basically define the hierarchy and over-all role of the First Founding Chapters, and as a simple exercise I tried to find the equivalents in ours. It's just an exercise for fun, but I thought it might lead to questions of things we could add or change to provide more character. Dark Angels - First Legion. Yes, they are also the Ultramarines in a sense, but I feel what makes the Dark Angels unique in 40k applies most to the First Legion still. Space Wolves - Executioners. They are pretty resistant to the reforms, and I can see them giving a token assurance that they will follow it and then do whatever the :cuss they want. Maybe the Executioners have a similar disregard for authority, and have no surviving Successors? Blood Angels - Solar Tigers. The sacrifice of Anubis is in comparison to the sacrifice of Sanguinius. The Solar Tigers are also examples of all that is good with the Imperium. Its most noble aspects. However, they have no Black Rage/Red Thirst flaws. But they do have the opportunity for something along those lines. The Solar Tigers, being Prosperan, are a psychic Legion, no? Most recruits it takes are already psykers, in contrast to the Orders of the Sword whose recruits develop psychic ability after gene-seed is implanted. So maybe the psychic backlash of the Ensarhaddon's death triggers a flaw in the Solar Tigers. Tainting the otherwise noble image. Ultramarines - Celestial Lions. While the reforms come from Jonson, really it is Angron who plays the role of Guilliman. Not only that, but they were isolated, kept away from the Heresy, and though they fought harshly with Bron you could say that they arrived post-Heresy more fresh than virtually any other Legion. Plus, I find it fitting that they be the paragons of the Astartes. Imperial Fists - Emperor's Children. Like Dorn, Fulgrim is the Emperor's praetorian, in truth if not in name. Though I do not believe they resist the reforms as strongly as the Fists, I still think this fits them best. Raven Guard - Orders of the Sword. Honestly, I am putting them here because there are no other slots available. But it got me thinking and I can make this work. I had contemplated the idea of Sanguinius enacting some ritual that breaks Caliban apart. But maybe I want to keep Caliban, since nobody ever does, and change that ritual to affect the Legion directly. The fleshchange is something that Magnus quells, by enacting some ritual imparted to him by the shadowy beings of the groves that, in return, blunted much of the psychic power of the individual. The power was still there, but it no longer had the ability to run rampant. Sanguinius could revert that. Though the Orders survive, perhaps there is irreparable damage done to the gene-seed itself. Prevents them from recovering as easily as some others. Iron Hands - Imperial Hounds. Though their father dies later than Ferrus did, I am putting them here because of their mentality on war. Their shame at being warriors, when being a farmer or a builder is more honorable, reminds me of the Iron Hands 'flesh is weak' character flaw. Salamanders - Iron Hoplites. They are Shattered, and their attempts at rebuilding backfire. With so much attention placed on a means that is deprived of them by the reforms, when the time comes to divide themselves their numbers of true Marines are too low. White Scars - The Effrit Legion. Their rivalry takes them far away from the Imperium, to the point where their influence and over-all impact can be seen as negligible. They are unruly, they are carefree. But, they are loyal and when the time comes they willingly follow the reforms. Doing this clarifies two things for me. One, we need someone to die. We have a Sanguinius, and a Vulkan, but no Ferrus. I think part of the issue is that everyone is responsible for their own Primarch and Legion, who is made wholesale from their own imagination. Nobody wants to kill off their Primarch as early as Ferrus was. How many Iron Hands, if given the authority, would have Ferrus Manus survive Isstvan? So I am going to give up Magnus. I love the Ghost Fox, the Red-Maned King. The Fox el'Magus. But it does provide the means for the Orders to survive Sanguinius' ritual, if Magnus sacrifices himself to do so. No, nevermind. Sacrificing is not being killed. Ferrus Manus did not sacrifice himself. Sanguinius and Magnus duel, and the God-king kills Magnus. Straight up, brutal one on one. Magnus' life is torn from him in a battle he resisted and fought against with every ounce of his soul and might. When Ferrus is killed, warp energy is released. I can empower what is released by Magnus' death, by virtue of him being a powerful psyker even with the limitations placed upon himself. That could be enough to disrupt the ritual. However, Sanguinius is still there, and the Legion is pretty much done. Well, hold on. That's right, Magnus is at Caliban to oversee recruitment. So this only impacts the Primarch, those Legionaries he keeps with them and the recruits still being trained. Luther has the bulk of the Legion out doing the Great Crusade, though he is not yet aware it is already over. I can make the ritual far more encompassing and affect the forces under Luther as well. Maybe that's why it is at Caliban itself, the symbolic origin/nexus for the Legion. When it hits, Luther, the mortal crew and others of the Legion that were not implanted with the gene-seed are unaffected. With those who are screaming of Caliban aflame, Luther commands the fleets back to Caliban with all haste. Since this is at the very beginning, before turbulence in the Warp make travel of any kind dangerous and slow, Luther is able to arrive in time to save Caliban from utter destruction, but not fast enough to save Magnus. The Angels withdraw, Caliban remains whole, the ritual thwarted, but the Ghost Fox is dead. Anyway, the second thing is that in 40k there is a 2nd Founding Chapter whose legend and power rivals that of the First Foundings. The Black Templars. At first, I was worried about bringing up the idea of a Successor with such strength, because everybody would want to take a crack at it. But I remembered a Legion I was forgetting. The Blackened Fists, who are the original core of the Black Watch now, right? So we already have a 2nd Founding Successor of equal standing. Though a Legion forms its core, that Legion had been so much more Shattered than any other Legion, essentially choosing to fight and die on the blades of Traitors than retreat to fight another day. There just isn't enough of them left to say the Legion survived. So the Black Watch are also like the Grey Knights. Formed during the 2nd Founding, but in truth have no Legion of origin. Considering the deliberately murky origins for many of its members, it is fitting that the Black Watch be considered a 2nd Founding Successor and not a First Founding Legion reforged into a single Successor. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 On my phone so I can't post pictures at the moment, but: Sons of Barabbas Pre Heresy Symbol: A skull, held by an armored gauntlet Colors: Olive drab Post Heresy Symbol: A grasping skeletal hand Colors: Their armor is a mixture of rust and unpainted ceramite, even gear recently stolen or salvaged will decay to this state when worn by these bitter ancients. It is also frequently stained by the chemical fumes of the necromantic industrial engines their warbands employ so frequently. Minotaurs Pre Heresy Symbol: A bronze bull with red eyes Pre Heresy Colors: Bronze with black trim Post Heresy Symbol: Still a bull, but bleached pale and covered in Slaaneshi runes Colors: Riotous array of bright, clashing colors. Slightly more uniform than the canon EC, as they tend to choose hues and pigments that will pain the vision of eldar, Orkz, etc to look upon. Imperial Hounds Symbol: An armored dog's head. (Something like the Stark banner from Game of Thrones, but with the armored "scales" rising up to cover the whole head and clearly meant to represent some kind of mail instead of a stylized depiction of fur) Colors: Midnight blue with grey trim Celestial Lions Symbol: A roaring lion's head/sunburst, usually carved from gold Colors: White with blue trim (Pre Heresy World Eaters) And if we can return to the post Heresy Imperial Army for a bit...is anyone familiar with the Phule's Company novels by Robert Asprin? That series distinction between the elite meritocratic regular Army and the Space Legion (common troopers are...anyone, a goodly portion of which joined because it gets you a pardon, officers are anyone who can afford to pay for the rank) might be something we could use to resolve the issue of wanting an elite Imperial Army while still needing a vast horde with anachronistic tactics that wins by having more warm bodies than the enemy has bullets. Although we'd need a name besides "Space Legion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 For the Solar Tigers' flaw...perhaps it has something to do with Anubis's perpetualism? It doesn't happen every time, but members who are slain will suddenly rise from the dead...as maddened revenants still tormented by the pains of their death wounds and the agony of existing in their half alive flesh. They are either given a merciful re-killing as soon as they come back (Decapitation or complete incineration is required) or unleashed on the enemy. I'm imagining a Son of Barabbas pelting a Tiger will all manner of plagues and becoming increasingly startled as the loyal Astartes WILL. NOT. DIE! which turns to terror when his bolt round tears off the enemy's helmet to reveal a walking dead man with eyes of hellfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Back when I worked at the library, me and a co-worker/friend would laughter at the bad puns in the titles, but I never actually read them. Since you mention some are crooks seeking pardon, what about the Penitent Legions? You could still have people wanting and paying to join, because at least it is three square meals a day, and all those xenos and renegades seem pretty weak and flimsy, the way recruiters talk about them. "Whadya in for?" "Broke into the governor's mansion." "Har har! You steal anything make it worth your while?" "I didn't take anything. Just didn't have the money to buy my way in." For the Celestial Lions, are the whole pads blue too, like canon World Eaters, or are the insets white since you only mention the trim as blue? Edit: That might be an interesting flaw, Ridcully willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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