Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Conn Eremon]

Meh, I was just very, very lightly waxing poetic on there being no defenders, only attackers. At least, not in the macro sense for the overall battle. The walls were manned, but the focus is on the attacking forces of varied loyalties.

 

With the loyalists being allowed in, and the traitors forcing in easier than they should be able to thanks to their intimate knowledge of the Palace's defenses.

 

I would like to see a sidebar where one section of the wall refuses to open to allow loyalists in, watching as the traitors crush them against the barred gates before battering their way inside.

 

Maybe that group's loyalties are questioned. Maybe the enemy was too close for them to dare open the gates. Maybe a lot of things.

 

Anyway, I liked the Ghota narrative. And now I am curious to know what you have planned for some of those named peeps.

[Wade Garrett]

Explanation of the Wall thing:

 

As the Coup progresses, the people of Terra get many speeches.

 

Fulgrim's go like this:

"And on their deathbeds, men and women will realize they would have traded it all for one chance! One chance to stand here, on the soil of Terra, and forge legends that will echo in eternity! Whoever stands with me, be they ever so ragged or humble...they are my brothers and sisters!"

 

Konrad's go like this:

"We all fight together, or we all die together. In what is to come to come, there are no noncombatants." *Significant hand-placed-on-axe-handle-gesture*

 

Arik Taranis's go like this:

 

"This is our world. Our home. Our ancestors bled for it. They died for it, and they are buried in it. Its soil is mixed with our bone, watered with our blood. We are the sons and daughters of Terra! Our blood is that of warriors and martyrs! This is OUR WORLD! OUR HOME!"

 

So when the Traitors land they aren't fighting just three Legions, but a billions and billions strong populace.

 

Yes, the butcher's bill is unimaginable. Yes, the Palace still gets smashed apart and Corax strolls into the Throne Room like he owns it.

 

But, hey! Shiny memorial wall! That makes it all worthwhile, right?

[Wade Garrett]

Whoops!

 

Didn't see your post when I put that up, Cormac.

 

Regarding the Ghota narrative...remember, we had the original Lightning Bearer (no offense Fulgrim) drawn onto the Blue Team after receiving a package from Malcador marked "If you are reading this, I'm dead".

 

His interactions with Valdor (who may have helped the Emperor purge the Thunder Warriors) would be...interesting.

 

But for all the old hatreds and older rivalry between them, they acted together seeking to slay the Arch Heretic. And they died.

 

Ancient Oll is, of course, Oll Persson. Nicodemus is the former Warden of Olympia, who aided in Anubis's escape and stained his armor black to mark his failure to oppose Barabbas' s ruination of the Thirteenth Legion.

 

He too bars the Great Traitor's way...and he is broken and cast aside, to be reborn as a Dreadnaught. Just one more failure to atone for in his centuries of service in the soon to be Black Watch.

 

Cyrene...is either a servant of the Angels who defies Sanguinus, or one of Lorgar's Shieldmaids. I'm leaning towards the former but if you don't approve...

 

The Wolf In Iron is another idea of mine, a sentient battle robot the Fabricator General had made specifically to kill Corax. Has interesting conversations with Cyrene about souls and sentience.

 

Spoiler: It does not succeed in killing Corax.

 

Raguel...eh, I came THIIIS close to saying Sigismund the Merciful, so called because he'd allow those his elements of the VI attacked a chance to kill themselves before brutally beating them to death. The other founder of the Black Watch.

 

But for that I'd need heathens permission and he's kind of vanished from the thread.

[Conn Eremon]

The Imperial Palace never ceased growing. By M41, many of its fourteen thousand wings have reached into orher continents. However, nothing reveals how much change has been made than the heart of the Palace, which houses the Memortuarium Wall.

 

Memortuarium Wall circles the ca.M31 Imperial Palace by many kilometers, the foundations laid upon the furthest edge that the bloodshed began (arbitrarily chosen) in the valiant defense of the Emperor's living remains. Though once proudly displayed in the open, it has since become enveloped totally. Even the skies are clustered with bridge-hives that connect the Palace grounds broken by the Wall.

 

No part of the Palace comes in contact with the Wall anywhere along its length. This has been vigorously enforced by the Custodians and Astartes stations on Terra, for their memories stretch the longest. See ref. 26xvC.M38, specifically Vol. 14b 'Aklidus Residential Sector Purge,' where architectural failures caused masonry to fall and land forty meters from the wall.

 

Edit: Just saw your other post. I will check with Heathens and see what he wants us to do. If his interest has waned and is not likely to return, well . . . We'll see.

[Wade Garrett]

No part of the Palace comes in contact with the Wall anywhere along its length. This has been vigorously enforced by the Custodians and Astartes stations on Terra, for their memories stretch the longest. See ref. 26xvC.M38, specifically Vol. 14b 'Aklidus Residential Sector Purge,' where architectural failures caused masonry to fall and land forty meters from the wall.

 

One does not trifle with the Homeowners Association of the Himalays.

 

The idea behind the Wall was based on something I was kicking around as a Thunder Warrior belief, that as long as your deeds and triumphs are remembered you can never truly die.

 

Which is why in my Ghota quote I had him reiterate several times that he refuses to grant Lanista any form of remembrance.

 

I had thought it would be cool to have Arik and Ghota pushing for a monument to the ordinary people of Terra who died standing against the Arch Heretic, although this was before I decided Taranis should die fighting Corax and Ghota isn't the type to push something like that through.

 

Perhaps Arik proposes it to Fulgrim (who also has a bit of a hang up about memorializing deeds of valor) and III Primarch is the one to push the idea through.

[Conn Eremon]

You could also just give someone else the idea to come up with on their own, if that would be easier.

 

I am picturing the Great Wall of China, where it has some definite thickness to it along with the fact that it is essentially a cemetary. Not just a memorial, but a tombstone for the countless souls whose names engrave the outside. Giant statues line it, depicting the heroes. Perhaps faceless, to depict the common masses.

[Wade Garrett]

The reason I wanted to attribute the idea to Arik is because....

 

You see, here we have the Thunder Warriors. Gene boosted barbarians who believe their deeds must be memorialized so they can have meaning.

 

Which makes the Emperor writing them out of the history books a books a real twist of the knife.

 

Thus, Taranis would want to make certain that even the "Faceless Masses" of Terra got the credit they deserved, particularly if the whole business of scratch companies/auxila/militia was his brainchild.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Is it okay for me to incorporate the wolf in Iron and Nicodemus into the tale of the Ensharraddon's last stand?
Still trying to figure how to work with the whole perpetual idea, any chance Lanista has the Anaethame or some over weapon that counters it?

[Wade Garrett]

Sure.

 

Oh, and the war robot's name isn't really "The Wolf In Iron", that's just what Ghota calls it. The Mechanicum probably stuck it with a moniker like "K-12-Echo-Lamba-13-9-Beta (Golgotha pattern)".

 

Which is in Ghota's opinion a stupid name.

 

As for Corax, given that he's as juiced up on Chaos steroids as Horus was at the canon siege, maybe he has some kind of equivalent to the Emperor's laser eyes of permenantly deader than dead?

[Conn Eremon]

Maybe it isn't what Corax wields, but what Anubis brings with him.

 

I will explain more now:

 

The Emperor is a Perpetual. Anubis is a Perpetual.

 

Fulgurite is the crystallized physical remnants of the Emperor's Warp Lightning power.

 

Fulgurite can, apparently, kill a Perpetual for good.

 

It can also heal them.

 

Whatever the case, it takes away from the wielder that which makes a Perpetual perpetual.

 

Anubis has his potential cure.

 

Barabbas crushes it to dust under his armored boots.

 

But who else but the Lightning Bearer would have another such relic? Really either Fulgrim or the Thunder Warrior could work.

 

When Corax confronts Anubis, all alone, Anubis has to make a decision.

 

Cure the Emperor, and die before finding out if he revived fast enough.

 

Or use it upon the Warmaster, and consign the fates of Humanity to be Emperor-less forevermore.

 

 

 

. . . Or is this a bad idea?

[Nomus Sardauk]

Maybe it isn't what Corax wields, but what Anubis brings with him.

 

I will explain more now:

 

The Emperor is a Perpetual. Anubis is a Perpetual.

 

Fulgurite is the crystallized physical remnants of the Emperor's Warp Lightning power.

 

Fulgurite can, apparently, kill a Perpetual for good.

 

It can also heal them.

 

Whatever the case, it takes away from the wielder that which makes a Perpetual perpetual.

 

Anubis has his potential cure.

 

Barabbas crushes it to dust under his armored boots.

 

But who else but the Lightning Bearer would have another such relic? Really either Fulgrim or the Thunder Warrior could work.

 

When Corax confronts Anubis, all alone, Anubis has to make a decision.

 

Cure the Emperor, and die before finding out if he revived fast enough.

 

Or use it upon the Warmaster, and consign the fates of Humanity to be Emperor-less forevermore.

 

 

 

. . . Or is this a bad idea?

 

Hmm...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m161dvVeAQ1r4ghkoo1_500.gif

 

...Wait, what if Anubis chooses something different? Something... Impossible... What if he gives the Imperium something that the norm'verse doesn't?

 

Confronted by the Arch-Heretic and with no way to defeat him alone and save his Father, Anubis makes an unexpected move; using his psychic gifts he tears open a portal to an unknown location and hurls the piece of Fulgurite into it. Anubis then prepares to sell his life dearly to delay Corax until Fulgrim and Konrad arrive to slay the Warmaster, after which they sadly find Anubis's broken form at the foot of the Golden Throne.

 

Though horribly ravaged and mortally wounded by Lanista's vile power, Anubis bears a pained but honest smile, and with his dying breath relays his actions to his kin; that although the Emperor is still entombed upon the Throne the piece of Fulgurite is still out there, hurled across the galaxy as the Primarchs once were to prevent it from falling into the Warmaster's clutches and so that the Emperor's true sons might recover it, revive their Father and finish the great work he started.

 

What do you all think? A bit too hopeful or is there still sufficent grimdark for it to work? It could be just a legend passed down by the Solar Tigers (sort of like the Corax'verse's equivilent of the idea that Cypher supposedly wants to resurrect the Emperor or the Salamanders Forgefather searching for artefacts left by Vulkan) or the "official account" as recorded amongst the hidden annals of the Imperium.

[Conn Eremon]

Mmm. Eh. Having it actually happen doesn't sound all that good to me. Having it be one of a dozen potential legends some of Anubis' kids believe in the coming millennia, I can dig.

 

Especially since certain details will seem unbelievable to any but those who want to believe. Like Anubis having psychic powers.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Mmm. Eh. Having it actually happen doesn't sound all that good to me. Having it be one of a dozen potential legends some of Anubis' kids believe in the coming millennia, I can dig.

Especially since certain details will seem unbelievable to any but those who want to believe. Like Anubis having psychic powers.

Did he not have Psychic abilities? I thought he'd developed them on Prospero (obviously nowhere near as advanced as canon Magnus) by tapping into the psychic potential all the Primarchs were said to have due to being connected to the Emperor, is that wrong then?

[Conn Eremon]

No, that is the case. But, as far as I know, we aren't speaking of someone who is as able as Magnus, Lorgar, Sanguinius, Konrad or potentially Leman. More that he has become more in tune with it. More aware. Like a spiritual man who can see the face of god but is not himself divine. Doing something as you suggest would be far too much heavy-lifting for one of his abilities.

[Nomus Sardauk]

No, that is the case. But, as far as I know, we aren't speaking of someone who is as able as Magnus, Lorgar, Sanguinius, Konrad or potentially Leman. More that he has become more in tune with it. More aware. Like a spiritual man who can see the face of god but is not himself divine. Doing something as you suggest would be far too much heavy-lifting for one of his abilities.

Ah dang, and here I was thinking I'd finally had a geniune good idea for once.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

.... I really like the idea of him casting it out, and to be fair regular psykers can tear hols open in the warp, so I don't see why a primach would not be able to. Regarding Anubis's power, I'm thinking psychic power is like any muscle, you train it and it will grow, I am trying to think of ways to make him seem powerful but not over so.
An idea I had could be rather then actually kill Anubis per say, but rather uses a daemon weapon that sucks in his soul, or seperates it into his body and casts it into the warp, with his sons afterwards building a tomb/stasis field similar to cannon Guilleman's fate.
This depends on how dead everyone wants Anubis, either with some possibility of being healed (with the traitors mocking how his attempts to cure the emperor got him the same fate, or dead for good or soul smashed like cannon horus.
Personally I am leaning towards dead dead, with his body being preserved in a stasis tomb/shrine after his last words to his brothers, with possibly rumours of something like the cannon Sanguinor (only not quite so derpy)/legion of the damned)
Plus the idea of the High kings of Prospero launching an expedition in search of it or some clues to it based upon visions and portents like the cannon wolves great hunts could be interesting, or maybe an office like heresy era Vigilators who are prepared to do anything to protect or find it at all costs, could be interesting and ironic.

I'll try and get a draft of Anubis's stand against the traitor lord done this weekend in between research.
Would anyone else be interested in painting a marine for thier legion? I'm thinking of doing one for the solar Tigers.

[Wade Garrett]

Wait a second.

 

If Corax is coming to offer up the Emperor's soul to the True Pantheon, wouldn't he need his own supply of Fulgurite?

 

Otherwise, putting his claws through the throat of the withered form on the Throne will only result in Emps getting right back on his feet.

 

For that matter, there's no need for a fancy cure. Just shoot the Emperor in the head and presto! He's good as new.

 

Why I Hate The Addition Of Perpetuals To The Lore

[Adra'Melek]

Then let's get rid of them. The whole point of the cannon Emperor (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the shaman's souls were being eaten up by the warp before they could be reborn. So they joined together and the new man didn't need to be reborn. Instead he's an anchor or the collective might of these shaman fellas. So the Emperor is held on the throne (forget perpetuals). If he dies completely it's not known if his 'soul' will split again and be lost to the warp or be reborn. Maybe have some concepts of the perpetuals with the fulgerite being used to conduct the souls into another being. To 'cure' the Emperor if it's used in one way, or used to syphon off his warp presence if used in another.

 

I dunno.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Wait a second.

 

If Corax is coming to offer up the Emperor's soul to the True Pantheon, wouldn't he need his own supply of Fulgurite?

 

Otherwise, putting his claws through the throat of the withered form on the Throne will only result in Emps getting right back on his feet.

 

For that matter, there's no need for a fancy cure. Just shoot the Emperor in the head and presto! He's good as new.

 

Why I Hate The Addition Of Perpetuals To The Lore

 

I think with the powers of the gods flowing through him Corax could do what the Emperor did to Horus in the norm'verse, unleashing his full power to strike at the Emperor's very soul and annihilate it. A "True Death", like has sometimes been done to daemons, or perhaps they "shatter" the Emperor's soul and devour the pieces? I suppose it's up for creative interpretation.

[Conn Eremon]

@Ridcully - I had intended to say that whatever I said was of course under the purview of Anubis' author and could be over-rided. But my lunch was up, so I hurried through. It does appear that I had misunderstood Anubis' capabilities in the psyker department. I had taken your words to mean more like how canon Khan is shown in Scars. Fully acknowledging the power, but wary of the dangers, and accepting of the knowledge that he is not one of them, though those with the sight can see that he brims with untapped power. Basically, think of that spiritual man analogy I had used. Imagine if that man was in fact the son of God, but still thought of himself as without divinity? That was sort of how I thought you meant, mixed with my image of canon Vulkan as the quiet strength, the gentle hammer, but it sounds like you intend for him to keep practicing being a psyker until he becomes one.

 

My advice is to make his use of powers muted. I think that what makes Vulkan so well-loved is that he is the gentle giant. He is the physically most powerful of the Primarchs, but also the kindest. The least likely to revel in his power. If he becomes a psyker, I see him more relying on his sons, who are recruited from a dominantly psyker population, than his own abilities. Only using them when necessary, which might make him seem weak. When he does use them, his strength is enough to reveal the lie in that belief. Anyway, your baby.

 

As far as how dead he should be, I would greatly, greatly prefer it if Anubis is as gone as Sanguinius. It takes a lot of the edge from the tragedy if everyone survives it, even if it is only in possibility. As Wade pointed out a bit ago, we are already in danger of making the Blue Team too good.

 

@SanguiniusReborn - The Permadeath thing was exactly what Wade was suggesting a few posts up.

 

@Thunor's Hammer - Actually, scratch that. My reply to you is a reply to all.

 

The whole Perpetual thing has been met with mixed reception. Some are cool with it, some are not. Thunor's Hammer and Wade Garrett are against it, and I am more in their camp than any other.

 

The suggestion I had put forth was meant as a compromise. It doesn't ignore their existence, as Thunor suggested. But it also doesn't allow it to have any major impact, in the form of constantly reviving Primarchs/Emperors.

 

So, to make my idea more clear, the Fulgerite has been used in canon to deprive a wielder of their Perpetualness. Doing so has aided in the recovery of another Perpetual, the target/victim, if the wielder is a lesser being. It was stated that it could also be used to simply slay the target/victim, so long as the wielder was an 'equal.'

 

If we allow Perpetuals to be a thing in our canon, but without having it become too changed from how it would be without Perpetuals, I say we mix it with the idea of the cure for the Emperor and the thing that puts a chink in Corax's figurative armor. Anubis' study of the Fulgerites comes with the revelation of its potential use in reviving the Emperor. The theory is unable to be put to the test as Barabbas comes along to crush. He then proceeds to imprison Anubis, because if Corax used to have a Primarch slave, why can't he? Anubis is sprung, and the final assault on Terra begins.

 

Anubis, wielding the last known Fulgerite, enters the Throneroom. Corax enters from another side, and they confront each other with the Emperor between them.

 

Anubis could use the Fulgerite on the Emperor. Doing so will use up his own Perpetualness, but may revive the Emperor. If Anubis is a lesser being than the Emperor. It's a long-shot, but it's the only one he has. However, Corax will easily kill him once that happens, and with his Perpetualness gone he won't revive. He won't know if it worked. He won't know if the Emperor gets off the Throne and deals with Corax quickly enough to avoid being killed himself by the Warmaster, who could very well have the power to end the Emperor for good.

 

Or, he can use it upon the Warmaster. It won't work as it would on the Emperor. The two are Primarchs. They are equals, whatever their states of power. Doing so should kill Corax, but the Emperor won't be revived.

 

Since the last one is the only sure way to keep Corax from taking over completely, he chooses the latter option. But Corax is more than just a Primarch now. He has the favor of the Ruinous Four, and he is the Warmaster of Chaos Undivided. He is, in fact, nearly the Emperor's equal. So it instead heals Corax, in a sense. Though it uses Anubis' Perpetualness in its doing, Corax's corruption is banished.

 

Now, he is just a Primarch. And though the wrathful Warmaster slays the Ensarhaddon then and there, Fulgrim and Konrad now face him. And he no longer has the might of the Gods to aid him.

 

And that is it. The Perpetual thing is noted, brought up, and impacts the story. But it doesn't degenerate into a never-ending cycle of revivifications that most people who don't like the Perpetuals don't want to see happen.

 

Now, if nobody likes that idea, we can move on. If anyone has a better idea, bring it up. I won't spend any additional time defending my idea, because I'm not trying to force it.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, I always liked what you said way upthread, about Corax falling to the blades of the many.

 

Anubis, Fulgrim, and Konrad stand in defiance of the Ascended One, but not alone.

 

Konrad is thrown from his feet with a blast of hellfire, but before Corax can follow up he must turn to meet the blades of Valdor and Taranis. Two warriors with millenia of battle experience and legends that rival those of the Primarchs themselves.

 

They are dead in minutes. Seconds! And much of that is a gift, the Pale Prince toying with his prey before the slaughter. But it gives Konrad time to rise once more.

 

Cyrene, once the vessel of a daemon, facing a beast that makes Raum's hunger seem like the petulance of a child, barring his way with nothing but faith.

 

Her end is neither quick nor painless, lacking anything like dignity, but her last words are a lament for the lonely child that once was.

 

Sigmund, driving home a thunderous blow from a power maul that does not so much as bruise the Warmaster's skin. As Lanista laughs at his efforts, Nicodemus the Twice Traitor manages to gasp out a single sentence around the armored boot grinding his ribs to paste.

 

"It is not just a hammer." And then the Ordinatus engine slaved to the beacon in Sigismund's weapon speaks.

 

The corridor ceases to exist...but Corax walks from the rubble, the blessings of his Brothers-To-Be repairing armor and flesh with every step.

 

The Iron Wolf. Its machine sentience has traveled paths its creators never intended. It is aware of its own existence, an existence it wishes to continue.

 

The machine's tac-calculi tell it that it can never defeat the Warmaster, not as he is now, and its mind is advanced enough to break the shackles of programning.

 

It fights anyway, a living machine laying down its life for others, and perhaps its actions inspire Fulgrim to speak against destroying Perturabo's Iron Sons instead of placing them in stasis.

 

Oll Persson. "Do you think I'm afraid of death, Fallen One? We're old friends, he and I. I'll be glad to walk with him and finally find some peace. For you, though...win or lose, for you there's nothing but war! "

 

So many heroes. So many bright lights snuffed out beneath the Warmaster's inexorable tread. So much that is lost, never to be recovered.

[Conn Eremon]

I do indeed like that and would vote for it. Thing is, it isn't so much a compromise but an attempt to shift it entirely away from Perpetuals. If Ridcully says Anubis is a Perpetual, then we should have that be dealt with. Of course, moot point if he likes that as much as I do.

[Wade Garrett]

We could combine your idea and mine?

 

Anubis, trusting in the numerous "Kill the Warmaster" plans being enacted, fights his own way through the burning Palace, bearing the last hope of humanity with him.

 

As he enters from one end of the throne room, Corax walks in from the other, the final marks of his injuries fading away.

 

And then the battle. The lone defender of the Golden Throne plays his desperate trick.

 

The Warmaster's rage as the oceans of power flooding his every cell dissipate, his godhood lost.

 

Behind him, footsteps.

 

Bloody but unbowed, leaning on one another and their weapons for support, faces set in grim masks of resolution, they come.

 

Does he beg forgiveness? Does he weep, soul sick to his core? He does not. He chose this. He, Lanista Corax!

 

Far, far better to die trying to surpass one's limits than live in acceptance of mediocrity.

 

And so he draws his blades one more time...

[Conn Eremon]

Sounds golden to me. In fact I like it way better than my original idea.

 

If Ridcully is similarly impressed, we can go with it.

[Wade Garrett]

And one more thing:

 

Barabbus's motivation for absconding with Anubis isn't that he wants his own slave Primarch.

 

Rather, he wants a reliable ally and partner, and he really thinks he can talk Anubis around.

 

I mean, look at the rest of Red Team! Corax and Bron are all right, but other than that it's a sad sight.

 

Adrah'Melek is entirely too prone to shouting "I AM JUSTICE!" and burning entire systems in a righteous wrath. Lupercal is just an anarchist, tearing down established orders with no thought of building anything to replace them.

 

Alpharius can't see past his hatred for Omegon, Barbedor is a vulture that swoops in and picks over the after battle debris, Ferrus straddles the line between feral animal and war machine, and Sanguinus is caught up in the myth of his own greatness.

 

He tries to explain all this to the Onyx Lord, but is shouted down with "You butchered my Legion! You murdered my father! You stole my father's CURE! NYAAAGGGHH!" and then Barabbus intones "Let him contemplate his defiance on the tree of woe!" and...wait.

 

Uh, anyway, he wants Anubis at his side as an equal. Not a pet.