Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

What became of Lupercall's legion after that? I'm thinking if it is possible they had a good relation ship with the Lions and Tigers, survivors/loyalists of Lupercal's legion could be taken in and later turned into loyalist chapters, cursing their primarch for being deceived by Corax, with their actions against the Palatine being either covered up/forgotton, with their gene sire being killed by Adra'Melek being the "evidence" of their loyalty to the imperium?  

[Ace Debonair]

When Lupercal dies my intention is for the Astral Wolves to splinter into warbands.

Cormac gave me some names before of Canon Raven Guard from Kiavahr or it's moon that I can use, so here's some rough ideas.

 

Lupercal has a council of his most experienced Captains, who he's always encouraged to be forthright with their opinions and advice, but he also has no obvious second-in-command.

Like the Mournival, in essence, only with several qualified and ambitious leaders.

 

When the Legion retreats from Melek's lads, they have a great big row over what should happen next, and part ways on fairly hostile terms.

 

Here's what I'm thinking for the four primary factions of Astral Wolves at this point.

 

 

Branne Nev takes the largest slice of the Legion back to Corax, pledging to see the war through to the end in their father's name. They keep their name, colours and so forth.

 

Agapito Nev takes the next largest portion of the surviving legion, and forms another warband, bedecked in black and calling themselves the Sons of Lupercal. Pledging allegiance to no-one, they seek to carve out their own empire in the name of freedom. They clash with everyone - even their former brothers.

 

Solaro An takes another sizable Warband and virtually disappears until many, many years later, appearing in odd places and striking at unexpected targets. His faction divides further after Solaro's presumed death in a battle against the Iron Hoplites, and become dozens of small warbands that spread across the Imperium, each with their own identity, agenda and colours.

 

Garviel Loken leads the smallest coherent faction to Macragge, knowing their words will not be trusted on Terra. When they arrive at Macragge after the heresy's conclusion, they immediately surrender and defer themselves to Angron's judgement. If any Astral Wolves do join the Imperium, it'll be these, and probably they'll be made to cast aside their old legion and join either the Celestial Lions or the Solar Tigers, depending. That's if Jonson doesn't catch word and demand they join the Black Watch, of course.

 

I know the last one's a bit of a long stretch, and I certainly don't see any successor Chapters coming from the loyalist Astral Wolves, but it might be a nice rumour to throw around.

 

EDIT:

Of course, I'm also open to other ideas if anyone has any. This is just me roughing out some thoughts.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

When Lupercal dies my intention is for the Astral Wolves to splinter into warbands.

Cormac gave me some names before of Canon Raven Guard from Kiavahr or it's moon that I can use, so here's some rough ideas.

 

Lupercal has a council of his most experienced Captains, who he's always encouraged to be forthright with their opinions and advice, but he also has no obvious second-in-command.

Like the Mournival, in essence, only with several qualified and ambitious leaders.

 

When the Legion retreats from Melek's lads, they have a great big row over what should happen next, and part ways on fairly hostile terms.

 

Here's what I'm thinking for the four primary factions of Astral Wolves at this point.

 

 

Branne Nev takes the largest slice of the Legion back to Corax, pledging to see the war through to the end in their father's name. They keep their name, colours and so forth.

 

Agapito Nev takes the next largest portion of the surviving legion, and forms another warband, bedecked in black and calling themselves the Sons of Lupercal. Pledging allegiance to no-one, they seek to carve out their own empire in the name of freedom. They clash with everyone - even their former brothers.

 

Solaro An takes another sizable Warband and virtually disappears until many, many years later, appearing in odd places and striking at unexpected targets. His faction divides further after Solaro's presumed death in a battle against the Iron Hoplites, and become dozens of small warbands that spread across the Imperium, each with their own identity, agenda and colours.

 

Garviel Loken leads the smallest coherent faction to Macragge, knowing their words will not be trusted on Terra. When they arrive at Macragge after the heresy's conclusion, they immediately surrender and defer themselves to Angron's judgement. If any Astral Wolves do join the Imperium, it'll be these, and probably they'll be made to cast aside their old legion and join either the Celestial Lions or the Solar Tigers, depending. That's if Jonson doesn't catch word and demand they join the Black Watch, of course.

 

I know the last one's a bit of a long stretch, and I certainly don't see any successor Chapters coming from the loyalist Astral Wolves, but it might be a nice rumour to throw around.

 

EDIT:

Of course, I'm also open to other ideas if anyone has any. This is just me roughing out some thoughts.

That sounds pretty good,  was mainly thinking the astral wolves sounded like they could be a good opportunity to have a legion that as it broke down after it's fathers death, did not still entirely stay on one side, plus the idea of loyalist chapters and warbands clashing against each other, each believing their way and their allegiance is the truest to their fathers ideals could be nice :p.  

[Conn Eremon]

As for Garvi, the Lions and Johnson, I see one of two things happening.

 

Mr. J: "You told me a year ago that your Legion had only n Prides. How is it then that you hand me a list of n+1 Successors?"

 

Big A: "Large induction of recruits in the final implantation process. Enough to warrant the founding of a new Pride."

 

Mr. J: "A Pride of recruits? And yet they act like veterans in combat according to these missives."

 

Big A: "What can I say, Jonson? They were the creme if the crop."

 

Mr. J: "...Their colors offend me. Remind me of the Astral Wolves."

 

Big A: "Yes, well. You once said I remind you of them too."

 

Mr. J: "I'm keeping an eye on you, brother."

 

Big A: "Oh, I'm keeping an eye on you as well."

 

 

OR

 

 

Jonson finds out about it, that this vagabond band of Astral Wolves sought asylum.

 

Demands their heads. Vehemently so. As in, if you don't give them to me for summary execution, I will go down to Macragge with all of my Successors, and many of my brothers' Successors, and execute them wherever I find them. Any whosoever gets in the way are consorting with traitors and will likewise be executed.

 

Because the Jackal just does not have a soft spot anywhere on his body, least of all for the Astral Wolves.

 

Anyway, Angron does something to force Jonson to relent on this issue, and a compromise is struck with this band being added wholesale into the Black Watch.

 

What Angron does is up to Wade. I am thinking he makes a bunch of concessions elsewhere to try and appease the bellicose Lord Commander of the Imperium.

[Ace Debonair]

That's if Wade is ok with sheltering vagabonds and refugees from a collapsed legion in the first place, of course.

Angron's his guy, after all.

[Conn Eremon]

Right. Sorry, I was just imagining the two responses Jonson might have, not speaking for Angron.

[Ace Debonair]

Actually, I typed that because I'd only just spotted the flaw in my otherwise brilliant plan.

And when I'm tired, I tend to assume I'm the first to think of such things.

The lesson here is 'don't post after midnight', but I have a funny feeling I'm not about to learn.

On a different note, I was thinking about who gets along with who, and I figure Bron and Melek are probably pretty good friends since their methods of war and outlook are somewhat similar.

I'd imagine that might change when they devote themselves to their new patron Gods, but then again it might not - Tzeentch in particular delights in the unexpected, after all.

Not that their legions would necessarily always share the same kindred, of course. Everyone knows you can't trust those bloodthirsty maniacs/crazy mutants and sorcerers.

[Adra'Melek]

This is probably going into the future a bit but I see the Infernal Guard librarians being Pyromancers (of course). Rather than kill them all off I'm going old school and having all ex-sorcorer/psyker Khorne follows losing the ability to manipulate the warp but retain the ability to 'dispel'. So each one has a Collar of Khorne put round their necks and they become something akin to psykic null zones (with big axes).

[Ace Debonair]

Put like that, I can see Melek and Bron adopting a strict 'you keep your guys out of my lot's way and I'll do the same' policy post-heresy, on any occasions where they decide to co-operate.

 

Sorcerers will probably be pretty commonplace in the post-heresy White Scars, much like with the canon Thousand Sons, so getting too close to the axe-wielding null zones is probably a really bad idea!

[Adra'Melek]

They can hang together. As long as you don't mind the exchange of gifts "Mr Librarian, do you know what would make your outfit complete? A lovely brass collar. They're the rage these days (pun intended)"...SNAP

[Conn Eremon]

Enemy of my enemy is my friend during the Heresy, friend of my enemy is my enemy after?

 

First enemy being the loyalists, second enemy being opposing Gods?

[Adra'Melek]

I was thinking that the XIV will split into 8. And they will inhabit 8 worlds (one to each circle). The 8th is boss and is where Melek lives. The other seven war amongst themselves to gain favour with Khorne (and within themselves to determine rank). Occasionally they go out raze hell, very rarely they all go out on a 'Crusade', which always slowly fall apart due to infighting.

 

Who's Slaanesh's legion? We don't like them, whoever they are.

[Conn Eremon]

The X Legion, the Minotaurs, sons of the battle-maddened Ferrus Mordax.

 

Edit: Are the ones who fall to Slaanesh, that is. Wade does need to expand on this, though. I believe the gist of it was that they are overcome by sensations experienced thanks to their heavy augmentations, as well as their obsession of steel over flesh.

[Ace Debonair]

See, this is what I really like about the Minotaurs, they've got the same goal I've got with the White Scars.

Take a Dark God whose canon servants aren't immediately the scariest things in the galaxy, and make them freaking terrifying.

The White Scars aren't solely about sorcery, after all - they're not devoted to Tzeentch as a God of Magic, but as a God of Power.

There's as much power in a pack of multi-armed, sabre and claw wielding killing machines with jump packs as there is in volleys of deadly spells. There's as much power in Terminator squads armed with dual heavy flamers as there is in conjuring winged daemons that spit sprays of boiling acid.

If it can kill, terrify, or otherwise cause an enemy's body or mind to fail them, the White Scars embrace it.

Bron and his legion love nothing more than sudden, decisive, all-out attacks, smashing into an enemy with everything at once, and coming at them like a pantheon of their worst nightmares made flesh.

People fear the Infernal Legion for their fire, bloodlust and their brutality, and they fear the Sons of Barrabas for embodying the undying presence of decay and ruin. But they fear the White Scars because stories of them travel on the wings of nightmare - the fragmented tales of the souls unfortunate enough to be spared by the Worldburner's sons and made to witness their world crumbling around them.

A step above the rubric marines on the scary scale, or at least I'm hoping so.

[Adra'Melek]

Just for clarification. It's the Infernal Guard. I've switched between the two here and there but we've settled on Guard.

[Aqui]

Sorry for taking so long, but as well as trying to get up to speed, a few things have cropped up that needed immediate attention

However, I have managed to get a few things sorted out regarding the "twin" Legion XX:

Original post:

"I am the beginning."

"I am the end."

"We are Ouroboros."

The skies of Olympia one night saw a streak of blue and green as a heavenly object fell to the ground, its arrival announced by an explosion that woke every man woman and child. The militia who were sent to investigate came upon a metal pod bearing the legend XX. It was not possibly to approach for some time, the heat unbearable to withstand for more than few seconds. Nevertheless, once the pod opened, the militiamen were shocked to find two children inside, their skin unmarked and seemingly unscathed and unperturbed by their plight. Their appearance was subject to much chatter amongst them on their way to Lochos; the children were heavy set, their brows were deeper than that of Olympia and were taller than was typical for ones so young.

The ruler of Lochos, Dammekos, was a cold hearted man. Other City states had taken to calling him a Tyrant in fact and despite this was curious of these children of the stars. He took them for his own, teaching them both everything he knew. It wasn't enough, as the children developed a voracious appetite for knowledge, reading the entire library at Lochos within months. Their growth did not go unnoticed either, for they had overshadowed Dammekos by their fifteenth year. The pair were called Principio "the Beginning" and Etiamnus - "the end", for Principio was the one who spoke first, his question to their adoptive father about some of the methods he employed in keeping the other city states at bay. Astonished by such a precocious demand, Lochos merely roared with laughter, before retiring the children to their beds.

The question was never answered.

As the Tyrant of Lochos extended his reach towards the other city states, he employed his sons in his armies, both puissant warriors by that time as sub commanders. Neither had forgotten the question asked that night, nor did they forget the lack of an answer. Secretive in nature, both Principio and Etiamnus had grown weary of their roles, seeing only death and misery wherever they went. It was, by then, impossible to gain an audience with their adoptive father, who had become paranoid and sour in demeanour. The latest campaign had seen them sack a small city on the outskirts of Pathos, Lochos' main adversary. It had been levelled, nothing remained. Saddened by what they saw, the twins knew that they had to act. Leaving their posts, they returned to Lochos and confronted Dammekos.

In a rare, impassioned speech, they beseeched him to stop, to take stock of what his actions. Dammekos refused and ordered their deaths. It took mere moments to despatch their would-be executioners and their King was left defenceless.

Rather than kill him, his sons exiled him and those servants still loyal to him. Silently vowing revenge, Dammekos was escorted from the city and decreed that he never return.

With the power of Lochos at their disposal, Principio and Etiamnus started to undo the damage wrought by the former Tyrant. It took many years, but during that time, the aptitude of each sibling changed. Principio was predisposed to fortifying and repairing, Etiamnus natural talent was in sapping enemy strongholds and cutting off supply lines.

And so it was, that ten years hence, that the Sons of Lochos had stabilised Olympia. A planet wide celebration took place to mark the occasion met with a strangers arrival at the capital. The newcomer had congratulated the Sons with their success, and bade them to follow him on a crusade of his own. Suspicious of his intent, Etiamnus demanded that he identify himself.

He did so.

The Emperor of Mankind stood before him, and again bade them both join Him. Sensing something noble within the stranger and his purpose, Principio and Etiamnus bowed in supplication. In return they were granted the last Legion in the Emperors' armies. It had no name, something that neither twin had any wish to change. The XX legions' first engagement was against the nearby planet of Justice Rock. The natives harboured a group known as the Black Judges, spreading heresy as they went. The planet was levelled, continent by continent as an example of the Legions might. By the end, Principio saw the devastation and wept. His brother knew what ailed his soul, but could not feel the same way. Fully half of the Legion was remaindered to rebuild what had been destroyed. Etiamnus, the destroyer, Principio, the builder. Together the planet was brought into compliance, and a lot sooner than it thought possible.

Having seen the work of those siblings with his own eyes, the Emperor decreed that the Legion be given a name that reflected their nature. From ere after they were called

The Ouroboros Legion. The beginning and the end.

I've read and re-read the ideas suggested to me via PM and I agree that the idea that Wade's Legion takes over Olympia and that my Legion goes to Cthonia. I haven't worked out a viable way to do that yet (perhaps Olympia suffers deep civil unrest and as the XX Legion is too far away, Wade's Legion moves in and occupies it permanently), so perhaps it would be best to have a public discussion on how that will go down smile.png I've changed the names of the twins to something that still has a specific meaning but is easy to read: Principio and Etiamnus (Alpharius and Omegon respectively)

I definitely agree that the Legion should split. Principio should be the Loyalist and Etiamnus the traitor. I'm just trying to get down how that happens. In my original draft, I made mention of the first question that their adoptive father was asked and how it was never answered. My idea is that somehow Dammekos escapes Olympia and eventually meets up with Etiamnus and gives him the answer. This plants the seed of doubt in Etiamnus' mind about the state of things (perhaps including the fact that Olympia has been taken - Etiamnus is deeply unhappy about it and feels that Principio does not care about that, even though he is of the opinion that Wade's Legion is trying to help by taking the unrest to hand. Principio isn't happy that his home is occupied, but isn't able to deal with that straight away. I feel that Wade's Legion and the loyalist half of the XX become wary of each other because of that occupation. They are...cordial, but will never take an eye off the other in case of treachery), leading to Principio having a showdown with him resulting in a fight. One or the other is (supposedly) killed and the Legion splits in two, the traitor half escaping Cthonia to go elsewhere.

Rumours of sightings of the "dead" Primarch abound over the following years, but never substantiated.

Feedback most welcome

[Conn Eremon]

The names sound kind of cool. The name for Alpharius,
Principio, reminded me of Liquid Snake. The "principal" brother, the one
who is supposed to be the superior one, but who is inevitably defeated
by the brother believed to be the lesser, but is proven the superior. If
you have played Metal Gear Solid 1, or are familiar with that
storyline, it could be a cool theme to tie in. Has a lot of elements
that are ripe for 40k. The Les Infantes Terrible project, where children
are cloned, with genetic tampering, from the genes of the world's
greatest soldier. The twins Liquid and Solid Snake, who are in a way
fighting over their dead father's body. Considering the lesser twin,
Solid Snake, is the good guy who wins, what I can see happening is
Principio, the superior twin, is taken out by Etiamnus, the lesser twin
who falls to Chaos and gets a boost. Muddies the waters of who is good,
who is bad, which 40k should always have. Plus, their codenames were Snake, and named for different states of matter. Sounds perfect for alternate Alpha Legionnaires.

 

One thing that might also be cool, as a homage to 1000heathens' original
twins, is to have it be an in-universe joke that they are the XX and the
XXI. A joke that quickly becomes in bad taste when the two do split.

 

Text above is all screwy because I copy/pasted it from a message I was about to send. Didn't realize that you had posted here, but glad I hadn't already sent it off.

 

Anywho, continuing on, what is the Legion's reasoning for taking over Cthonia? Why Cthonia?

[Aqui]

The names sound kind of cool. The name for Alpharius,

Principio, reminded me of Liquid Snake. The "principal" brother, the one

who is supposed to be the superior one, but who is inevitably defeated

by the brother believed to be the lesser, but is proven the superior. If

you have played Metal Gear Solid 1, or are familiar with that

storyline, it could be a cool theme to tie in. Has a lot of elements

that are ripe for 40k. The Les Infantes Terrible project, where children

are cloned, with genetic tampering, from the genes of the world's

greatest soldier. The twins Liquid and Solid Snake, who are in a way

fighting over their dead father's body. Considering the lesser twin,

Solid Snake, is the good guy who wins, what I can see happening is

Principio, the superior twin, is taken out by Etiamnus, the lesser twin

who falls to Chaos and gets a boost. Muddies the waters of who is good,

who is bad, which 40k should always have. Plus, their codenames were Snake, and named for different states of matter. Sounds perfect for alternate Alpha Legionnaires.

One thing that might also be cool, as a homage to 1000heathens' original

twins, is to have it be an in-universe joke that they are the XX and the

XXI. A joke that quickly becomes in bad taste when the two do split.

Text above is all screwy because I copy/pasted it from a message I was about to send. Didn't realize that you had posted here, but glad I hadn't already sent it off.

Anywho, continuing on, what is the Legion's reasoning for taking over Cthonia? Why Cthonia?

I hadn't considered the MGS inference... Could be a plan if done right. I certainly don't have a problem adding XXI Legion. I left it out as I wasn't sure whether that was a viable thing to add in.

As for Cthonia, well I've been thinking about that the most and have come up with nothing so far The only thing I can think of is that the planet was never taken by a Primarch, but the Primarchs are drawn there by an urge of some kind (perhaps drawn to it by echos or a ghost of what's happening in the "real" Heresy?)

[Wade Garrett]

Well, that's a right kick in the fruits, because I've been PMing Cormac about this selfsame situation and had become enamored with the idea of letting the XX have Olympia and moving Barabbas to Cthonia (The Imperium leaves it as is, bar the annual conscription raids, as there just isn't anything of value on it except its people.)

 

Mainly so I could get my hands on Abaddon, who I had plans for. The Dark Wanderer, the ruler with a hundred crowns...or just a swaggering meglomaniac who builds kingdoms of filth and worms among the Imperium's cast offs and flees whenever he comes to their notice. The latter description coming from his eternal rival for the leadership of the XIII, Calas Typhon.

[Aqui]

Well, that's a right kick in the fruits, because I've been PMing Cormac about this selfsame situation and had become enamored with the idea of letting the XX have Olympia and moving Barabbas to Cthonia (The Imperium leaves it as is, bar the annual conscription raids, as there just isn't anything of value on it except its people.)

Mainly so I could get my hands on Abaddon, who I had plans for. The Dark Wanderer, the ruler with a hundred crowns...or just a swaggering meglomaniac who builds kingdoms of filth and worms among the Imperium's cast offs and flees whenever he comes to their notice. The latter description coming from his eternal rival for the leadership of the XIII, Calas Typhon.

Well, if you'd prefer that your Legion takes Cthonia, then by all means! I'll just adjust my draft accordingly

[Adra'Melek]

It was a source of recruits for the original legions because it was so close to Terra. With their main recruiting centre lost it would make sense to find another established source that isn't relied on anymore. Also, if they're loyal, then one ones rebel it would make sense for them to be near Terra. Just a thought

[Wade Garrett]

Having Barabbas make it a Gaol world would give Corax's forces an excellent linchpin for their blockade of Mars and Terra.

[Aqui]

Having Barabbas make it a Gaol world would give Corax's forces an excellent linchpin for their blockade of Mars and Terra.

And perhaps that could be the route the traitor half of the XX/XXI Legion head off to, to escape the loyalist half

[Conn Eremon]

When I said an in universe joke, I meant like the rumor that the canon XIII have such high numbers because they have all of the Lost Legion survivors. Something that some people say, nut isn't actually a thing.

 

Like Jonson being the Jackal. Technically, only Angron is even aware of that nickname, and would use it as an insult. Others might be dimly aware and that is it.

 

As for Cthonia/Olympia, it's between you two. So long as you two come up with something both of you like. Though I will point out that Wade has three Legions, and can make a concession for someone who doesn't have three, MR. GREEDYHANDS. :p

 

Not that a concession needs to be made, just that it could. Whatever you two decide.

 

Aquilanus, how do you feel about the current Signus Affair? Is that something you want to keep as is or modify, or would you rather come up with something else? Aside from the home world thing, what you want to do with Signus is the only thing I need finalized on the Twins part. Don't need the details of it, just a predilection towards keeping/modifying it or getting rid of it, for the purposes of the summary posts that will start off the new thread.

[Wade Garrett]

Three Legions?

 

WHAT IN ALL THE HELLS!?!

 

The Minotaurs, Imperial Hounds, Sons of Barabbas, and Celestial Lions make four!

 

Who did you take from me? I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL ALL OF YOU, ESPECIALLY THE ONES IN THE JURY BOX!

 

(Joking)

 

And on to weightier matters: Why the Minotaurs serve Slaanesh.

 

It is not anything so crude as mere "sensation". Slaanesh encompasses the craftsman as surely as it does the hedonist.

 

And that is what the Minotaurs are, working in blood and iron to make themselves the perfect warriors. That such a thing may well be impossible is of no concern.

 

As the blacksmith forever hones his blades, so we hone our bodies. And in that process, that act of self creation and recreation, going forward, always forward, always improving...

 

That is the truest pleasure of all.