Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Wade Garrett]

I was thinking that maybe Maccrage Angron shouldn't have a huge empire within the empire, since both Corax and Jonson already have one of those.

 

It would be neat, in my opinion, if he was more of a philosopher-king, emphasis on philosopher, viewed by his brothers in much the same light as canon Lorgar, with Bron, Barabbas, Jonson, Corax and Konrad griping to one another that if they have to endure ONE MORE lecture on ideals and the nature of morality from Angron, they'll punch him in the face, why can't he just shut up and wage war?

 

Meanwhile, in canon:

 

Daemon Angron:

"I FEEL EVEN ANGRIER THAN USUAL AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY!!!!"

 

But again, Gree's Legion, Gree's baby.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

That would be brilliant, yet make cannon Angron all the more tragic.

[Wade Garrett]

From After De'Shea:

 

"It was the face of a general to follow unto death, the face of a teacher at whose feet the wise would fight to sit, the face of a king made for the adoration of worlds: the face of a primarch.

And rage made it the face of a beast."

[Wade Garrett]

Actually, I just re-read Gree's original piece on Angron of Maccrage and it had him as being a sweeping conqueror in the model of Alexander the Great, who pushes the borders of the Imperium out so far that he misses the Heresy and only turns up after the Siege.

 

Now, this was all brainstormed before things like the Emperor falling at Ullanor were canonized (fanonized?) but...on one hand the idea of a whole Legion just missing the Heresy strikes me as utterly ridiculous. (No, my preference for my own philosopher Angron is not clouding my perceptions ;) )

 

On the other hand, hello Primarch who will be accused of being a closet traitor for the next ten thousand years! It'd be interesting to see how the Macedonian War Hounds deal with higher than canon Dark Angel levels of suspicion and distrust from the other loyalists.

[Conn Eremon]

You mean the War Hounds are loyal? Badumtish.

[Wade Garrett]

Oh, they may indeed be the loyalest of the loyal, but can you blame Perturabo, Anubis, Curze and the rest for being a tad suspicious about the XII going dark for the biggest war in galatic history and only turning up to side with the winners once the shooting stopped?

 

I can see a bemused Jonson having his brothers flock to his banner because they view him as a counterweight to Angron...the Jackal may be an overbearing autocrat with the crazy idea we should split up our forces, but at least his Legion was bleeding against the Astral Wolves and Infernal Guard in the Palatinate, not off Dad knows where doing Dad knows what.

[Conn Eremon]

Nice mythological elements to this idea, too. The Palatine Hill is where Rome was first founded by Romulus. Romulus, who had a brother Remus who needed to be killed to finalize his plans. And the cave at the base of the hill were they were raised? Called the Lupercal.

[Wade Garrett]

He is not your son.

 

That is what I have wanted to scream in your face, ever since the day when you and your armies descended from the stars.By what right do you claim such easy kinship with him?

 

Were you the one who held him close and placed cold cloths on his brow, when the night terrors wracked him and he wept blood in agony?

 

Was it you who read to him and cooked for him and worked your hands to the bone so he could have a better life? Were you the one who stitched his wounds closed every time the raiders came, who waited with your heart in your throat each time his ship vanished over the horizon?

 

I know these thoughts are unworthy of me. You have brought medicines and warm clothing and machines they say will make our lives more than a ceaseless scrabbling for food and shelter on lands that rise and sink at the whim of the World Kraken.

 

Lorgar tells me that you and he will at last take our people to the stars, to worlds beyond that are a paradise compared to Fenris.

 

And yet...I hear you speak in the Great Hall, of unity and bringing the remnants of mankind togather in a great empire, and I wonder.

 

Are you truly the defender of the scattered tribes of humanity, or just another reaver breaking those weaker than he beneath his boot? Your face may dance, but always in your eyes there is a coldness I have seen before...or mayhap it is merely my own jealousy reflected back at me.

 

He is not your son. That is what I whisper in my heart, as I watch the two of you talk and laugh as you draw up the plans for Lorgar's Aesirheim, his face like a reflection of yours locked in ice.

 

I wonder if I say it to convince you...or myself.

Journal of Elanin Winterborn, adoptive mother of the Seventeenth Primarch, Lorgar "Cleftjaw".

[Wade Garrett]

 

It is a curse, sometimes, to see with clarity. Oh, not always. I certainly would not wish to make all my decisions blinkered by Perturabo's misplaced compassion or Lupercal's blind idealism, but sometimes....

 

Sometimes, when I consider the reality of the universe, ruled by vast unknown powers that care nothing for humans, I envy those among my brothers who can delude themselves with notions of courage, honor, and "moral" victories (i.e. a defeat in every other possible calculus).

 

I use the words "vast unknown powers" for a reason. Yes, the Warp is mysterious and frightening and works in ways we do not understand.

 

But the same was once true of fire, electricity, the sea, the mechanisms of disease...and then, as now, there were those who insisted on investing those forces with an undue reverence and crawling on their bellies as supplicants to them. But I will record the merits and flaws of my brothers in another place...I was writing of the nature of the Warp.

 

Reader, imagine a colony of insects which spend hours of their time buzzing in adoration of the man whose home they inhabit. Is he cognizant that they adore him as an aspect of the divine, or simply indifferent?

 

Indifferent. Not "evil". The Warp will slay us if we are unwary, yes, but so will gravity! If some fool flings himself from a cliff in the belief that he can fly, is gravity evil when it breaks him upon the rocks below?

 

But the man of reason, who does not act in opposition to the laws of gravitation, but harnesses the buoyancy of certain gases or the aerodynamics of particular shapes...that man may safely soar among the eagles.

 

Extract from MEMOIRS OF THE GALACTIC WAR, by the Thirteenth Primarch, Roboute Barabbas. All known copies of currently sequestered within the archives of the Inquisition

[Wade Garrett]

An idea for Noctus's Chainsworn:

 

Cormac Airt and I have been PMing one another about the Corsairs and Hounds, and one of the ideas we had was that the treachery at the Boros Gate begins with a "xenos attack", that is, ships of non human origin crewed by Corsairs launching automated boarding vehicles packed full of captured xenos monsters at the Seventeenth.

 

It occurred to me that such beasts might be a gift to Leman from Lanista, and that his Legion maintains a stable of captive Orkz, armbulls, and the like implanted with modified Butcher's Nails and thrown into the teeth of the enemy (modifications include the ability to cause the creatures to fall dead or unconscious when the Beast Master/controller pushes a button.)

 

I'm seeing a ragged Lorgar slaying something particularly awful (Cretacean carnosaur with Nails?) and Leman congratulating him with "Good on ye, Split Face! I bet that pale bastard three ships it'd take more than a lizard to send you to Hell!" as he moves in for the kill himself.

 

Ferrous's opinion of these practices? Who do you think made the modded Nails?

 

"You want me to help you enslave xenos by implanting human technology in their flesh? I admire that cruelly ironic sense of justice you have, Lan. I truly do."

[Conn Eremon]

Would Ferrous have been for the idea of tainting pure human tech by implanting it in xenos flesh? Would he really? :p

 

I like the idea, reminds me of the Weregeld epic the Space Wolves have in canon, fighting alongside the Raven Guard in the years immediately following the Massacre, witnessing them utilize horrors as shock troops. 

[Wade Garrett]

Do you really expect a coherent worldview from the Primarch who chewed his own arm off because "I am going to take this chainblade and remove my filthy xenos tainted metal hands! Okay, one gone, now to...oh. This is awkward."

[Ace Debonair]

For more fun, Bron and Angron should loathe each other.

They're only really similar on the surface, or at least that's how I see it.

Angron recruits worlds into the Imperium using reason and diplomacy, and where that fails a well-disciplined, carefully planned show of force and military excellence that causes minimal collateral damage while erasing any dissidents, and turns his new prize into a recruitment world. I get the feeling he'd rival Roboute for efficiency and number of worlds claimed for the Imperium.

Bron asks nicely exactly once. When he asks again it's along the lines of 'My men have just killed and eaten your three best generals and know where the weak spots in your base are. Wanna give up now?' And If that doesn't work, he turns the entire population bar five or so into crow food and makes exciting patterns of rubble out of their cities, turning his new prize into a planet-sized mausoleum. Bron doesn't take as many worlds as Angron, partly because he reduces a few of them to burnt stone.

Hell, maybe they should almost come to blows before the Heresy. I'd have Alpharius or Omegon (for the irony) step in and remind Angron and Bron they're on the same side before they start hacking chunks out of each other.

Then when Corax gives the order for someone to deal with Angron, it'd be only natural for Bron to leap at the chance to finish off his least favourite kinsman.

[Conn Eremon]

Personally, I'd rather avoid making Angron too much like canon Guilliman. He should still have anger issues, for instance, as that seems to be prevalent in the canon War Hounds. He'd just be able to control it without the Nails biting into him. He is naturally an angry individual, but Nuceria's nurturing pushed that to insane extremes.

 

Actually, that might be a nice way to depict a Macraggian Angron. Refined, carefully applied fury. He could certainly desire to be more like canon Guilliman, but his rages should get him in trouble. This doesn't necessarily invalidate what you put as his tactics, just something that would keep him from approaching canon Guilliman's level of excellence.

 

Which could still provide some fertile grounds for a rivalry. Angron likes to point out that their purpose is to incorporate these worlds. Bron likes to point out that Angron has burned as many worlds as he has. Angron clearly despises Bron for his unrepentant, violent mannerisms, Bron openly mocks the hypocritical fool who is too weak-spirited to see the logic of his ways.

[Brother Heinrich]

Personally, I'd rather avoid making Angron too much like canon Guilliman. He should still have anger issues, for instance, as that seems to be prevalent in the canon War Hounds. He'd just be able to control it without the Nails biting into him. He is naturally an angry individual, but Nuceria's nurturing pushed that to insane extremes.

 

Actually, that might be a nice way to depict a Macraggian Angron. Refined, carefully applied fury. He could certainly desire to be more like canon Guilliman, but his rages should get him in trouble. This doesn't necessarily invalidate what you put as his tactics, just something that would keep him from approaching canon Guilliman's level of excellence.

 

Which could still provide some fertile grounds for a rivalry. Angron likes to point out that their purpose is to incorporate these worlds. Bron likes to point out that Angron has burned as many worlds as he has. Angron clearly despises Bron for his unrepentant, violent mannerisms, Bron openly mocks the hypocritical fool who is too weak-spirited to see the logic of his ways.

I could almost see him acting in the same way as the Lion in the canon universe, usually level-headed but if someone pushes too far... He punches their head off.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, as I said, Corax and Jonson both have their vast "Empires within an Empire", having Angron with yet a third just seems redundant.

 

Barabbas doesn't have an Empire...he has a number of prison/fortress worlds where detachments of his Legion oversee dissidents and captured prisoners as they are worked to death in the mines, plants, etc. Yes, servitors would probably be more efficient, but the purpose of these words is deterrence and making a point.

[Ace Debonair]

Personally, I'd rather avoid making Angron too much like canon Guilliman. He should still have anger issues, for instance, as that seems to be prevalent in the canon War Hounds. He'd just be able to control it without the Nails biting into him. He is naturally an angry individual, but Nuceria's nurturing pushed that to insane extremes.

Actually, that might be a nice way to depict a Macraggian Angron. Refined, carefully applied fury. He could certainly desire to be more like canon Guilliman, but his rages should get him in trouble. This doesn't necessarily invalidate what you put as his tactics, just something that would keep him from approaching canon Guilliman's level of excellence.

Which could still provide some fertile grounds for a rivalry. Angron likes to point out that their purpose is to incorporate these worlds. Bron likes to point out that Angron has burned as many worlds as he has. Angron clearly despises Bron for his unrepentant, violent mannerisms, Bron openly mocks the hypocritical fool who is too weak-spirited to see the logic of his ways.

So Bron is like Gree's Angron, but with the brakes off?

Angron can see he'd be a merciless brute like Bron if not for Angron's self control, and loathes and pities his brother for glorying in slaughter the way he does.

Bron thinks Angron is in denial, and masking his true nature as a ruthless weapon of war under a pretence of civility and honour.

Angron thinks he's bettering himself for not being a destructive madman, Bron thinks Angron's a cowardly fool.

Seems like a hell of a fight waiting to happen.

[Conn Eremon]

Kinda reminds me of canon Corax and Curze. Two very similar Primarchs separated by a thin veil of idealism.

[Wade Garrett]

So...been thinking about how the Imperial Hounds operate.

 

Their doctrine owes a lot to Lorgar's experiences on Fenris, wherein his unorthodox vessels equipped with built in grappling chains, rams, and possibly primitive flamethrowers would chase down raider ships and deliver disciplined squares of pike and crossbow wielding men and women supported by trained fighting dogs onto their decks.

 

Ursus pattern pursuit talons would be a common feature on many of their larger starships, because "No one runs from the Emperor's Hounds! We lock our jaws and hold till we die, and even then they have to cut off a chunk of our enemy's flesh and bury it with us!"

 

Meanwhile, Leman Barbedor winces at his brother's complete lack of subtlety, tactical manuvering, or many of the other intricacies of void war.

 

Which is not to say that I intend the Hounds to be the canon World Eaters; rather, they consider the purpose of an armed force to be getting to grips with the enemy army and breaking it to pieces in conventional set piece battles.

 

Now, for ground battles...I'm imaging them operating similarly to how I imagine the canon Imperial Fists to did in the Great Crusade, focusing on erecting fortified strongpoints at strategic locations and using those as beachheads for reinforcement/resupply from orbit, maybe with a specialized "Wallraisers" formation trained in getting such fortifications set up as quickly as possible.

 

Unless that's veering too far into the territory of Heathen's Iron Hoplites.

[Hyaenidae]

If you've read Brothers of the Snake, you have a pretty solid idea of how I imagine my Iron Hoplites fight.

[Wade Garrett]

Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me then. My enduring memory of the Snakes is their phalanx of spears against the "swinekin", and my envisioned pike squares are pretty indistinguishable from that in appearance and effect.

[Hyaenidae]

Sorry, brother. Don't mean to cause a ruckus.

[Wade Garrett]

No blood, no foul. I'm sure I can come up with some cool alternatives. We're good on the fortification thing, though, right?

[Hyaenidae]

All yours. Ironically, my Perturabo hates fighting behind structures, as such marvels to him are not meant for war.

[Ace Debonair]

Maybe Lorgar and his Legion should have a hand in the construction of the Imperial Palace, then?

I'd sort of assumed Perturabo and Fulgrim (and Ferrous, but that was before we all voted for the Iron Devourer ) built it in our story. But it'd be pretty cool to have Lorgar come up and be all like 'You call that a bastion?' before showing them what a proper defensive wall should look like.

...I'm now also imagining the Palace if Ferrous does get his hands on it.

I'm picturing a whole lot of gun emplacements and killing zones, with flamethrowers for scourging dead xenos without having to touch the filth yourself.