Rumour Control Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Having set out to run a pride of the legion force, i know it sounds strange but im sick to death of painting marines with boltguns (i have 100+ in my 40k armies). Is anyone else thinking of running breacher squads as their troops? i gave this some thought a while back but was put off because of the cost of doing it properly, MK3 marines+ boarding assault upgrade(to get the shields) kit+character conversion set(to get the bionic limbs). Now the medusan immortals are out i was gonna use those to do something a little different for troops choices. Basswave: Im stealing that idea for 3++ command squad! Edited December 29, 2013 by Rumour Control Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3556602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 @RumourControl - that is the exact reason I went for a terminator and dreadnought heavy force - mildly cheaper in the long-term and completely different to my 40k SWs force (mostly GHs and LFs) however I am planning on getting 40 Immortals and run them as breachers if needed :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3556645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Russ Brother 92: Funnily enough i did exactly the same, I love my terminators, dreads and land raiders. I posted a rough list in the army list section. I took the plunge last week and bought the start of my army but didnt get any Immortals, im tempted to place an order for some but i dont know... I think immortals are expensive points wise and maybe not much better than standard breachers but you get all the cool IH bits on them so it would be rude not to run them as breachers. I'll probably stick them behind an aegis line and if anything comes close enough grav it/them to death to hold them in place then open up with the rest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3556656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I guess they could be awesome against the likes of Tau as the Gun Them Down will work better and their FNP/Shields will takes a lot of the heat out of their shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Shame as only one guy i know plays tau, and i dont see him that much, let alone have a game with him! My opponents will be Sons of Horus and Salamanders, i dont think this army will ever venture into 40k (as i really cant see the point in 40k tactical squads) but you never know. Is anyone gonna be using tactical support squads? I have a plasma gun squad to build, and the first time i proxied them, i never looked back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilarium Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Is anyone gonna be using tactical support squads? I have a plasma gun squad to build, and the first time i proxied them, i never looked back. I'm building 2 x 10-Man Tactical Support Squads at the moment. I'm going to magnetise their weapons, as I want to be able to deck them out with Graviton Guns when I'm using Head of the Gorgon, and Plasma/Meltas when I'm not. I'm still waiting for FW to release the 10 x Graviton Gun pack that they promised me on their FB page 6 months ago... If they don't hurry up I'll just make my own :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Aye I am building my TDA/Dread parts first but then it will be onto the tanks, support squads and heavy weapons squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Going back to 'tactics', do you guys think the Head of the Gorgon ROW is really worth it? I can imagine it being effective only when running squads in rhinos to get most of the blessed autosimulacra and outflank for free. Other than that the rules don't seem to do much good. Support squads with graviton guns don't seem worthwile. Stubborn in your deployment zone seems like a negligible bonus. If you wanted Battle Automata, why not take Mechanicum allies? But the limit on Fast Attack is really restricting our options... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) @ Urza: Good idea magnetizing the weapons, i magnetize most things bit didnt think of that one! I imagine 10 graviton guns to be pretty devastating too. Hopefully they will release some. May proxy some in my next game i play in a week or so. @ Russ Brother 92: Thats exactly what im gonna do, build the TDA first, spartans, dreads, immortals and support squad. Need to test a few painting methods first though. When the immortals are built i'll proxy some Gorgon terminators... This im very looking forward too. @ coloroutofspace: Yes it is a little restrictive on the fast side of things but by the time you have filled your compulsory choices i dont see that many points being available to spend on fast choices, obviously pending on the points being played, me and my buddy usually play 2-2.5k. Spartan packed with cataphractii and a support squad in a rhino is really gonna ruin someones day. So far, What armour does everyone own? And what do you plan to do with it??? Edited December 31, 2013 by Rumour Control Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Going back to 'tactics', do you guys think the Head of the Gorgon ROW is really worth it? I can imagine it being effective only when running squads in rhinos to get most of the blessed autosimulacra and outflank for free. Other than that the rules don't seem to do much good. Support squads with graviton guns don't seem worthwhile. Stubborn in your deployment zone seems like a negligible bonus. If you wanted Battle Automata, why not take Mechanicum allies? But the limit on Fast Attack is really restricting our options... I think if I get round to running a tank heavy force then it certainly can help - re: battle automata if you take them 'in house' AND as an allied detachment you can run 20+ of the monstrous Castellax with minimal effort aha re: vehicles I own - 1 Fellblade and 2 Contemptors so far :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3557667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 @ Russ Brother 92: Yes, but tank-heavy with cheap tanks, not Fellblade-/Spartan-heavy, because what good would it do to save 10 pts for autosimulacra on a 650 pts vehicle? And on Castellax - if I wanted to field so many of them, I'd just play Mechanicum :) @Rumour Control: After 650 pts spent on compulsory troops and hq, there's so much more to spend on everything else... Oh, and I own a chainmail for everyday use, and my full-plate I use as an evening attire Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3558199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Very good coloroutofspace, i like it. I suppose it depends on what list you are running, if you go bare bones compulsory then you have a lot to spend on goodies. My compulsary is around 1000pts, without the spartans! Currently i own 2 contemptors and 2 spartans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3558928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I'm planning on running a Spartan with Cataphractii in my first complete lists (re: when I've got all my stuff assembled and bought the Cataphractii...). I'm thinking in the future I'd like a second Spartan. Probably a Proteus too as it's Auger thingy will help with the Outflanking vehicles. I'm considering a Support or Seeker unit in a Rhino too. I have an inexplicable desire to take a pair of Malcador with Battlecannon/Demolishers and Outflank those. It seems so off-the-wall and unexpected. The only thing I have never written in to a list, weirdly, are Predators. I don't know why... Edited January 6, 2014 by Emperors Teeth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3561996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I don't plan on running Iron Hands, but I just came across this and thought it was worth sharing. Autek Mor can give preferred enemy (infantry) to himself and another infantry unit in his detachment. I ran the math for a 10 man Volkite Culverin squad with this rule in effect and... Marines in up to 3+ cover: 13.35 kills (9.47 without Mor) Marines in up to 3+ cover (snap firing): 3.34 kills (2.37 without Mor) Terminators (any variety, regardless of cover): 5.86 kills (4.22 without Mor) av12 armour (no cover): 4.44 glances (no change) av12 flyer: 1.11 glances (no change) Guard, Orks, Guardians, Termagants (no cover): 59.65 kills (40.74 without Mor) This is a bigger boost than can be gained from a Librarian or Master of Signals. It's pretty brutal in 30K, and plain broken in 40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3568689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I ran the math for a 10 man Volkite Culverin squad with this rule.......This is a bigger boost than can be gained from a Librarian or Master of Signals. It's pretty brutal in 30K, and plain broken in 40K. But it's still only 10 marines who can be focused or tied in combat. I do love it and it is something your opponent has to kill Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3568708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I may proxie as at least 3 gents at my club have Nids, 1-2 have Guard and 2 Orks so hopefully fun - but Sanct says, it puts a lot of eggs in one small basket... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3569067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I may proxie as at least 3 gents at my club have Nids, 1-2 have Guard and 2 Orks so hopefully fun - but Sanct says, it puts a lot of eggs in one small basket... Still, seeing the look on your opponent's face when you fire those Volkites would be priceless :) Sanct 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3569639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Almost pointless since they'll wipe out most Nid/Guard units at least 2-4 times over on average! Maybe squads of 5? What is the significance of Marines in 3+ cover for the above math, btw? Aren't Culverins just AP5? Edited January 16, 2014 by Emperors Teeth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 No, if you're going to do it, do it right. The Iron Tenth demands overkill! All enemies must be crushed into nonexistence! Russ Brother 92, coloroutofspace and ThatOneMarshal 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) What is the significance of Marines in 3+ cover for the above math, btw? Aren't Culverins just AP5? Up to 3+ cover. as in not in 2+ cover Edited January 16, 2014 by Sanct Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Gotcha. never encountered a unit with 2+ cover yet in the field. Thank goodness. Any tips for giving my Iron Hands a 2+ cover save in their deployment zone? I plan to use a Defense Line as a base of operations... I guess a unit with Cameleoline would up that to 3+ for themselves. 2+ though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Culverins can wipe around 10 marines without denying their armour save, which means that cover or invulnerable saves up to 3+ provide no benefit. Plasma guns (or demolisher cannons for that matter) by comparison would lose much of their effectiveness in this sort of cover. It's the fact that volkite weapons are balanced for ubiquitous power armour that makes them so overpowered in 40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Do you guys think that the enemy will receive a cover save if you successfully kill one dude and the deflagrate shot wounds another? Like a whole unit of boyz are in a building and you shoot and one boy gets killed after failing his cover save. The next deflagrate shot, does it ignore cover? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 No, deflagrate specifically allows saves 'as normal'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Do you guys think that the enemy will receive a cover save if you successfully kill one dude and the deflagrate shot wounds another? Like a whole unit of boyz are in a building and you shoot and one boy gets killed after failing his cover save. The next deflagrate shot, does it ignore cover? The boyz are chillin in da house and suddenly they deflagrate <never mind me> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282497-hh10-iron-hands-tactics/page/3/#findComment-3570744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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