Mortarion - weak story?

[AfroCampbell]

Does anybody else feel that Mortarion's fall from grace is a little poorly explained. I mean just cos him and horus were mates, and Typhon his first captain were corrupt doesnt explain why he goes all grim-dark very well.

I mean what are his motivations? I know we are all gonna have opinions on this but where in the books does it actually really go into it? nowhere....

I am hoping the fall of the Death Guard book coming out (theorized not actually known when) should really address these issues.... 

[GrandMagnus]

Well, his betrayal against the Emperor was fuelled by his hatred of tyrants. And his corruption by Nurgle was because he couldnt stand seeing his sons being tormented during their flight in the warp. I think its an okay story.

[Kais Klip]

On the contrary, Mortarion's betrayal was one of the more lucid ones, more akin to Angron's than Fulgrim's. What I understand from Scars is that Mortarion turned expecting for tyranny and reliance on psyckers to be abolished, but turned desperate when he found that he was surrounded by those two traits even more once he was amongst the traitors. Had he not undergone Isstvaan, I do think Mortarion would have turned on Horus, if not back to the Emperor.

[Dumah]

I wasn't aware there was much detail on his turn in the first place; Flight of the Eisenstein gives little on his state of mind - seeing as how it's all Garro's perspective - and doesn't cover his actions after Istvaan III. It sounds like Scars gives us some insight into his way of thinking, is that right? That makes me even more excited to read it!

[Kais Klip]

SCARS CAST SPOILER (mobile)

 

Yeah the penultimate episode of Scars has the exchange between the Khan and Mortarion, similar to what went between Angron and Guilliman, with the Khan pretty much verbally putting Mortarion's allegiance to Horus down on its arse in a to-the-point (sorry) therapy session. Only fills up half a page admittedly, but that why we read the series for the most part, eh. On the plus side Mortarion did join the ranks of "reasonable rebels" for me, which manages to out him away from the "BAAAAH I'M DEATH AND DOOM" image like BL has done with Angron.

[DuskRaider]

From what I understand, we will be seeing a novel sometime soon dealing with the XIVth's fall to Nurgle. Something tells me Mortarion was on the verge of turning on the Traitors, Typhon sees this, and springs his trap resulting in Mortarion's, and the Legion's fall. The dialog between Mortarion and the Khan shows the Death Lord's unease of his alliance with Horus, Jaghatai even calls him out on it. I think Mortarion himself feels he's in too deep now, however.

[Brother Captain Lucian]

^Excatly how I feel after reading Scars.

[Dumah]

From what I understand, we will be seeing a novel sometime soon dealing with the XIVth's fall to Nurgle. Something tells me Mortarion was on the verge of turning on the Traitors, Typhon sees this, and springs his trap resulting in Mortarion's, and the Legion's fall. The dialog between Mortarion and the Khan shows the Death Lord's unease of his alliance with Horus, Jaghatai even calls him out on it. I think Mortarion himself feels he's in too deep now, however.

As exciting as that all sounds, I'm beginning to get a little bit nervous... It seems as though BL is determined to make nearly every traitor Primarch's fall into a "tragic misunderstanding" or have them being manipulated against their will. Whatever happened to good old bad for bad's sake? Lorgar and Angron are the only ones left (and you could even argue the Red Angel was duped as well)!

All that being said, I think it at least jives with what we know about Morty's character pre-Heresy, so I'll allow it.

[Kais Klip]

See I'm the exact opposite, I preffer what they are developing now. Maybe it's why I'm starting to sway away from 41m era altogether recently.

 

And on that point I'll bite, Angron turned because he saw the Emperor as a tyrannical "high rider too scared to get his hands wet", not dissimilar from his old overlords on Nuceria. I'm pretty sure Angron would have remained loyal if the Big E walloped his arse on the old golden barge.

 

And Lorgar merely followed the truth of his question of "are there gods", and deluded or not you have to give him credit for trying to appease Angron's Nail pain.

 

The only real "bad guys" I see left is possibly Fulgrim by the old narcissist card, and one could make an argument for post-flight Curze.

[Conn Eremon]

Horus is still a big bad, considering that, when you strip aside all the facades and masks he puts on for his sons and brothers, all you have is an ambition for absolute power.

[mactire]

Horus is still a big bad, considering that, when you strip aside all the facades and masks he puts on for his sons and brothers, all you have is an ambition for absolute power.

 

I would actually prefer this. Horus and Mortarion always seemed to me to have the lamest fall of all the Primarchs. I mean Perturabo and Curze wiped out their home worlds,so really had no choice, Magnus and Lorgar actively sought forbidden lore or knowledge which resulted in their downfall, Fulgrim was possesed and warped from the inside out and eventually there would have been a reckoning for Angron and the WE. The twins I'm not too sure about I personally think there is a twist in their story,and they also seem the kind to turn just for the sake of it. Maybe the scars audio gives some leeway to Mortarion but personally I would have preferred if Horus had just decided to ally with the Chaos powers for his own gain and to hell with his brothers/pawns, rather than giving credit to Erebus and his jiggery pokery.

[Conn Eremon]

That's still the case, innit? Erebus created the circumstances in which Horus fell, but ultimately it was Horus' decision, and he chose the road to supreme mastery over the galaxy.

 

Though high-minded ideals are attributed, and shown to be potential causes in the beginning, very rapidly we are shown that it all boils down to his ambitions. He wanted total domination, even if that meant casting down his own father, and manipulating his sons and brothers, chaining them to his will.

[Marshal Rohr]

I don't think Mortarion was ever in the bad for bad's sake category. If anything every side of the conflict needs to have reasonable purposes for the rebellion. Horus thought the Emperor had abandoned the legions like he had the thunder warriors, and made his decision based on what he believed would be true. Lorgar thought that acknowledging no deity would be mankind's destruction, and acted according to the information he had. Fulgrim always teetered on the line between excess/obsession and self-improvement, and when he was infected by the Warp his fall was guaranteed. Angron's fall is entirely believable now, and firmly takes him out of the bad for bad's sake. Clearly he felt like he was still a slave, he was still tortured by the nails, and he felt like the Emperor using him and beings like him for such brutal wars and then claiming some moral high ground gives his betrayal more gravitas. 

[Wade Garrett]

It isn't as if Mortarion doesn't have his own reasons to hold a grudge against Poppa E.

 

Here's a Primarch who was obsessed with self reliance and endurance...having to be rescued after the Emperor goaded him into pushing himself past his limits is likely to plant just a few seeds of resentment in his heart.

[DuskRaider]

Wade pretty much hits the nail on the head. Couple this with his hatred of tyrants and psykers, and his close relationship with Horus, and you can see why he turned on the Emperor. The issue lies in the current state of this newly emerging "Empire" he's helping create. Psykers are running rampant, his allies are betraying one another, and Horus is seeming little better than the Emperor. I'm sure he's in a very confusing place...

[Augustus]

Mortarion hated //other// tyrants. If he gave half a poop about humanity he wouldn't be leading a Legion that considered humanity little better than bacteria. At least pretend too care like some other Primarchs ;)

 

Look at his past. Learns all he could from a necromancer alien before attempting to overthrown him. Learns all he could from a space Jesus before attempting to overthrow him. And as it seems now, he's going to side with Horus until he outlives his usefulness. Dude sides with Tyrants as a matter of convenience. Shrewd.

 

Finally. If a legion is a reflection of a Primarch and your legion is Bro with the Night Lords...

[GhostMalone]

It's not that simple mortarion was raised unaware of humanity he became cold calculating and aloof in his formative years. He then found his species being dominated and stood up to his adoptive father.

 

He then toppled every stronghold till he came to the last one of said father, as he's planning to finally free his people, the emperor shows up and takes over.

 

Mort then goes this is between me and my father storms off to defeat him, gets within an inch of death and is saved by the emperor who slays his adoptive father then shackles mort to his will as his adoptive father did.

 

Then his greatest brother stands up and says :cuss this we need to be free from tyrants and mort was like I will if it means freedom

 

Then gets bound to horus.

 

Then gets bound to nurgle

 

Then gets his heart carved upon.

 

 

Poor bastard gets worse than angron

[Conn Eremon]

It's not that simple mortarion was raised unaware of humanity he became cold calculating and aloof in his formative years. He then found his species being dominated and stood up to his adoptive father.

 

He then toppled every stronghold till he came to the last one of said father, as he's planning to finally free his people, the emperor shows up and takes over.

 

Mort then goes this is between me and my father storms off to defeat him, gets within an inch of death and is saved by the emperor who slays his adoptive father then shackles mort to his will as his adoptive father did.

 

Then his greatest brother stands up and says :cuss this we need to be free from tyrants and mort was like I will if it means freedom

 

Then gets bound to horus.

 

Then gets bound to nurgle

 

Then gets his heart carved upon.

 

 

Poor bastard gets worse than angron

"MORT."

 

" . . . "

 

"MORT."

 

". . ."

 

"MOOOOOOORRRT."

 

"What!?"

 

{Beat}

 

"DANGER ZONE."

 

 

 

I was going to end it with Angron going all "How you doing, buddy?" But you just can't say a name three times and not end it with danger zone. It just can't be done.

[Wade Garrett]

Huh.

 

I was imagining Angron raving that Mort doesn't have torture machines in his head, Mort wasn't snatched away leaving his brothers in the first Death Guard to die, therefore Mort's pain is as nothing compared to HIS pain, which is the PAINIEST pain that ever pained ANYONE which is why he SHOUTS about it ALL THE TIME!

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah, but . . . Mortarion got heart-carved.

 

Angron never got heart-carved.

 

He was brain-carved.

 

Which is less of a thing.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

For all both Angron and Mortarion's desire to play freedom fighter, let's not forget both are portrayed as conducting war in a manner that even their brother Primarchs considered extreme. Mortarion, in particular, matching Calgacus's old quote on Rome, 'ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant' - they make a desert and call it peace.

[Zincite]

The twins I'm not too sure about I personally think there is a twist in their story,and they also seem the kind to turn just for the sake of it.

There was some older fluff for the Alpha Legion - I think it's fallen into disuse now with the 'infiltrators' theme taking over - that said they were very competitive because they were the last chapter to be founded. They liked to prove themselves better than the other, 'older', Space Marine legions. They were constantly looking for ways to better themselves, which is why they joined Horus. They saw him as stronger, and they wanted to fight other Space Marines to prove they were better.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

If your like me you try to find a reason to like all the Primarch's because without justification and fleshing out with their personality and what events have molded them (making them seem less divine, as we learn that such 'advanced' beings can and have fallen to the pettiest of human emotions) I find it hard to sympathise with them and the Emperors reasoning for that matter, 

 

Aka Angron- 'my son in a renegade killing machine with angry nail in his nut, better abduct him and put him at the head of an army of super warriors'- seems legit

 

Mortarion: 'My son is a self dependent fighter for the species of humanity, better insult him, watch him half die then save his manky pale arse' -seems legit

 

Konrad: Upon meeting my son he just tried to tear his own eyes out of his head, im sure its nothing, leader of a gene enhanced super army should be fine'  

 

So when we see how their effective legions still have die hard loyalty and respect for their primarchs it really confuses me, because i then start to see their legions as an extension of themselves. 

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

The twins I'm not too sure about I personally think there is a twist in their story,and they also seem the kind to turn just for the sake of it.

There was some older fluff for the Alpha Legion - I think it's fallen into disuse now with the 'infiltrators' theme taking over - that said they were very competitive because they were the last chapter to be founded. They liked to prove themselves better than the other, 'older', Space Marine legions. They were constantly looking for ways to better themselves, which is why they joined Horus. They saw him as stronger, and they wanted to fight other Space Marines to prove they were better.

They were competitive combined with the fact they spent so much bonding time with Horus before they met the Imperium combined with a particular competitive effort with Guilliman because the Warrior-King said something about their style of warfare.

[Zincite]

I don't remember the Gulliman part. Where's it from? It sounds amusing.