Wade Garrett Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Mortarion, in particular, matching Calgacus's old quote on Rome, 'ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant' - they make a desert and call it peace. If we are applying quotes to the Death Lord, here's one from another lanky liberator: "Peace is the natural condition, war is the exception. The aim of all modern war is the return to a state of peace. Therefore, the more vigorously a war is prosecuted the better it is for humanity as a whole. Sharp wars are brief." Abraham Lincoln Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3534909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I don't remember the Gulliman part. Where's it from? It sounds amusing. The Index Astartes. Guilliman made a combat about how their method of fighting was overly redundant and expended far too much resources. Afterwards, Alpharius made a point to prove his method of warfare was viable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3534973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Ironically, by expending vast resources on overly complicated campaigns concentrating on redundant assaults. That'll show him! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3534983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Ah, I haven't been able to find the Alpha Legion's IA article yet, so that's why I've not heard of it! Cheers. I'll redouble my efforts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3534990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 To defend the Alpha Legion, they were able to conduct guerilla warfare against planets, destroy it's infrastructure, and bring it into the fold. All with minimal life loss. This kind of war may take longer, but it saves lives on both sides. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3534992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Whoops, I appear to have posted this in the wrong thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Minimal loss of life for the Alpha Legion, maybe. I highly doubt the butcher's bill for operatives and the planetary defenders was anything CLOSE to minor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Prime example, Nurthene. Even before the black cube and the cabal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Well operatives and enemy combatants, sure... However they're a drop in a bucket compared to the life of an Astartes, let alone the Imperium in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I don't remember the Gulliman part. Where's it from? It sounds amusing. It's from the original Index Astartes back in like 1999 or whatever. Basically, Alpharius was wasting time with elaborate plots and schemes on how to win battles, and Guilliman called him on it. So, to show everyone he was right, Alpahrius came up with an even more elaborate time wasting scheme to conquer a planet, and was then shocked when nobody except for Horus was impressed, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 As far as Mortarion's story, it's important to note that the Black Library is working from a hole with this one. Mortarion comes from a time when it's okay to be named Death, lead the Death Guard, be the daemon primarch of the Chaos god of death/decay, and look like this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/9/92/MortarionEpic.jpg/300px-MortarionEpic.jpg So yeah, like Angron (the daemon prince of the Chaos god of being really angry), his story is going to be pretty flimsy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 It was the salmon mousse Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 As far as Mortarion's story, it's important to note that the Black Library is working from a hole with this one. Mortarion comes from a time when it's okay to be named Death, lead the Death Guard, be the daemon primarch of the Chaos god of death/decay, and look like this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/9/92/MortarionEpic.jpg/300px-MortarionEpic.jpg So yeah, like Angron (the daemon prince of the Chaos god of being really angry), his story is going to be pretty flimsy. Guys love to point this out but I think BL has done a pretty good job manoeuvring out of those holes spun in the jeantastic grim-darkness of the 80s; Angron for instance originated as the Nuceria mob's callname for him, which fits quite nicely I like to think, both in terms of fluff and narrative. I mean come on, the guy is rather peeved most of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3535156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Mortarion can have a really great story. His IA was interesting and the recent spin on his loyalties to Horus by Christ Wraight in Scars really starts to add extra levels of depth. To be fair on his 'image', Mortarion is one of the least corny Primarchs. We have Corax the Poe quoting bird-ninja, the high school emo exaggerated to over 9000 with the semen of Batman mixed in to create Kurze, Angron the perpetually angry and completely unviable as a manager of anything Primarch in BLOODY BLOOD RED and Genghis Khan cunningly renamed to not be Genghis Khan. I don't think that Mortarion is all that bad, to be perfectly honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Genghis khan is doom breed man The baddest deamon prince ever Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 You mean Death cleverly named to not be Death? By calling him the Reaper? The guy perpetually breathing the fumes of his own failure and completely worthless of leading a force of anything not "Hey, let's try to kill ourselves and see if they die first! Because lowercase-death!" Which is said in Christian Bale's Batman voice through Bane's mask? Come on. ALL of the Primarchs started off corny, only now to be expanded upon. From veni vidi vici Guilly to Barbarian King of Wolves who was raised by wolves. From the iron skeleton that bears the burden of the construction that nobody really cares about once it's finally built Perturabo to the I'm better than you at everything Alpbarius Omegon who gets pimp slapped by Fulgrim for stealing his schtick. From I'm Daddy's favorite, but I HATE HIM Horus to I have iron hands, so they named me iron hands, so I named my sons iron hands, who have iron hands to emulate me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Actually Cormac, Mortarion is described as a master tactician in Betrayal. There's a difference between "no retreat" and "no tact". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 THEY ARE ALL MASTER TACTICIANS. Even when Russ was a commander named Lupus, back when House wasn't around to tell them not to. Even KILLMEKILLMEKILLMEKILLKILLKILL Angron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Mortarion, in particular, matching Calgacus's old quote on Rome, 'ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant' - they make a desert and call it peace. If we are applying quotes to the Death Lord, here's one from another lanky liberator: "Peace is the natural condition, war is the exception. The aim of all modern war is the return to a state of peace. Therefore, the more vigorously a war is prosecuted the better it is for humanity as a whole. Sharp wars are brief." Abraham Lincoln I'm just not sure how turning a war zone into an irradiated wasteland aids a return to the natural condition though ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If everything is dead, there is no war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtwhizz Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 As far as Mortarion's story, it's important to note that the Black Library is working from a hole with this one. Mortarion comes from a time when it's okay to be named Death, lead the Death Guard, be the daemon primarch of the Chaos god of death/decay, and look like this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/9/92/MortarionEpic.jpg/300px-MortarionEpic.jpg So yeah, like Angron (the daemon prince of the Chaos god of being really angry), his story is going to be pretty flimsy. Guys love to point this out but I think BL has done a pretty good job manoeuvring out of those holes spun in the jeantastic grim-darkness of the 80s; Angron for instance originated as the Nuceria mob's callname for him, which fits quite nicely I like to think, both in terms of fluff and narrative. I mean come on, the guy is rather peeved most of the time. Yeah, except the biggest holes don't lie with the Primarchs. They lie with the Emperor. Literally nothing the Emperor does makes sense. Especially if he's essentially a god. Dude's psychic powers put Magnus to shame. Curze can't see his own hand in front of his face compared to the future sight of the Emperor. Yet this guy just continually screws up. Mishandles pretty much every single one of his "sons", starting with making them in the first place. What in the whole wide galaxy requires Primarchs? The legions couldn't lead themselves w/ the Emperor overseeing things? Anyway, just nonsensical stuff from start to finish. I would absolutely L-O-V-E to see them try and fill in all those holes without it being a completely silly cop-out or making the Emperor out to be a chump. At some point you just gotta go with it. When the entire HH could have been solved by, ya know, the kids giving Dad a phone call and asking him what's up, you know you aren't going to have enough asphalt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Without the Primarchs there would be no gene-seed. :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtwhizz Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Without the Primarchs there would be no gene-seed. Yeah, because the Emperor couldn't have just made super warriors without all that nonsense. Oh wait, he did do that. And they were stronger, faster, and better than Space Marines. In fact, they kicked the (pre) World Eaters' behinds before being wiped out. So like I said, nothing the Emperor does makes sense. It's like they've been deliberately working the 30k universe to make everything the Emperor ever does be wrong. Next thing you know we'll be finding out that Malcador was a plant by the Cabal and was secretly working to bring about the downfall of the Imperium by "insert ridiculous shenanigans here". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If everything is dead, there is no war. If the whole planet is uninhabitable for several millennia it doesn't matter either way... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If everything is dead, there is no war. If the whole planet is uninhabitable for several millennia it doesn't matter either way... Let me re-emphasize:If everything is dead, there is no war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283968-mortarion-weak-story/page/2/#findComment-3536449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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