How would you...

[Kol Saresk]

So, partially inspired the Kursed from Thor: Dark World(especially that line about being Kursed with the existence until they died, whoo that was deep) as well my own perverted fascination with the Night Lords and trying to make completely despicable Night Lords, a strange, weird, and one might say "unnatural" idea occurred to me. My idea for the basis of a future 30K Night Lords force is a Castigation Company that is made up of Sinners and basically the dregs of the Legion no one else wants. And yet ironically, they have forged a brotherhood based on survival due to constant threat of death by Curze. And while no one may want to live forever, they certainly don't want to die either.

 

My idea is this, a grouping of brethren so despised and hated that they were given a fate worse than even the Sinner's Red. They were forced into possession. Something of a suicide squad within the suicide company. My dilemma is this: How could I manufacture the Gal Vorbak into the Legiones Astartes(Night Lords)? Granted, from a fluff standpoint this is nothing I will have to worry about. But from a rules standpoint, it can get iffy. While most Heresy players might be okay with a direct transplant, I kind of think that might be too much. After all, these guys are so hated they hate themselves. But I'm not sure how to do this. Would it be enough to just "skip" the Legiones Astartes where they are concerned, to show they no longer draw upon the benefits the VIII Legion might otherwise offer?

 

Also, the reason I want to "transplant" these guys, is to avoid the whole allied detachment thingymabob.

[Vincent val Munshin]

I don't have the allies matrix in front of me, but I think you could just ally a bit of Word Bearers into your army, and just painting them up like Night Lords should work.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but that's kind of what I want to avoid is the allies matrix because then I have to devote points to at least another HQ and two Troops I believe. That's the thing, its not a competitive or even a strict build. Just an in-house specific addition I can use when I'm with like-minded friends.

[Vazzy]

I say no Legiones Astartes, perhaps with a negative leadership value to represent their own self loathing? 

[GhostMalone]

And ensure that they are an elites choice

[Russ Brother 92]

Echoing the others - if they're at -1LD (they're fearless anyway iirc), perhaps dock the Legion traits (these guys are hated & shamed by their own - they may wear midnight clad but they're NLs in name alone) then I'd say go for it - for me fluffy is better :p

[Kol Saresk]

So basically the general consensus is no Legiones Astartes and -1 Ld. No access to VIII Legion specific gear or any Night Lord army buffs(ie Curze giving all Night Lords fear) would also be acceptable yes? As just a personal opinion, I will make it a personal opinion to restrict to only one unit. This is a fate worse than the Sinner's Red in a Legion where the Primarch wouldn't even know where to begin a purge. Can't imagine there's an overabundance of people who can go that far that Curze would want to do that kind of punishment to.

[Russ Brother 92]

Sounds quite good except I would expect these guys to cause Fear, after all they are horribly mutated astartes - demi-gods made flesh warped by chaos. sound pretty terrifying to me aha

[Kol Saresk]

Possibly. I see them more as inspiring hate than fear, but I could definitely see that as happening with non-Astartes.

[Kol Saresk]

Maybe give them the Icons of Judgement as a 5 point tax?

[Russ Brother 92]

What does it do? I'm at work so can't reference either book :(

 

It does give a bit more choice/options which is always good :)

[Kol Saresk]

It's a Night Lords unique item that gives them fear. Normally it is only available to Independent Characters.

[depthcharge12]

I guess you want something more like Colonel Shaeffer's Last Chancers?

 

 

Maybe have some sort of political officer (chaplain overseeing the "Living Damned") as your HQ and give him some sort of rule that kills off d3 guys in a squad when the break due to Nostraman Blood?

 

 

Or maybe "Save our Skins"? Where if one of your units is engaged in cc, then your troops choices must move closer to that engagement and try to charge when possible as a result of banding together to stay alive?

 

 

 

How about a Forlorn Hope objective? Since they are sort of Penal legionnaires, they must take an objective placed in your opponent's deployment zone. At the end of the game, if you haven't captured it, your opponent gets 1 VP, if you capture, you get 2 VPs

 

 

just a few ideas to float your way

[Kol Saresk]

lol, sort of. I just want this specific unit, to be something of a "vile among the vile" sort of thing. Something within the army. A group so condemned that Curze made them suffer the worse fate a Night Lord could imagine and then stuck the Company of Sinners with them because that's the beach all the sewer dregs washed up on. Sort of like Daytona Beach. :P

[depthcharge12]

lol, sort of. I just want this specific unit, to be something of a "vile among the vile" sort of thing. Something within the army. A group so condemned that Curze made them suffer the worse fate a Night Lord could imagine and then stuck the Company of Sinners with them because that's the beach all the sewer dregs washed up on. Sort of like Daytona Beach.

Or New Jersey. *ahem*

but what is said fate? I thought that Night Lords' worst fate was death and they were more concerned with saving themselves than others (though sometimes Soul Hunter sometimes points otherwise)

Is a bad fate for them suffering an honorable death? haha

[Kol Saresk]

Well my impression of the Sinner's Red is that it is a bad fate. During the Heresy, the Night Lords are something of a "puritan" among the Traitors in that they still currently shun the warp and it seems like Curze is iffy about psykers(ironically) given Sevatar's bundling up of his power. So the general idea is that this specific squad is made up of those who crimes are deemed so great by Curze, that the Sinner's Red is too good of a fate. So instead, they are forced into possession. And of course, the complete and total hate for the warp, themselves and the Legion forcing them into this servitude is enough to give the daemon a foothold. My idea of the result is a squad so twisted and tormented that they are something of a suicide squad within the suicide company, shunned by those who found brotherhood in the most unlikely of places, alone and only released when the enemy is deemed a necessary threat, otherwise spending their existence trapped in chains and being spat upon by those they once called "brother". Or as close to brother as such a Night Lord would call anyone.

 

Basically, a parody of the Gal Vorbak. Where the Gal Vorbak were the Blessed Sons, I want these to basically be the Damned and Tormented.

[The boater]

Actually something like the last chancers might work out nicely... Kinda like Curze just got so fed up with them that he just dropped them into the hands of a legions senior (an officer or chaplain or something like that) and said "you do something with them I don't give a s--t" as that would be a fate worse than death: the disavowment of a father. So not only do they have to wear the sinners red, but they have to live with the fact that no one cares weather they live or die just as long as they are not there problem. Then said officer (chaplain or whatnot) gets the brilliant idea to make them all possessed and use them as a weapon

 

From a gaming aspect I would play against it with the -1 led and no access to gear. But also what depth charge said, wherin they have special missions or objectives in game.

 

-The boater

[Kol Saresk]

Well, the entirety of the army idea is that this company was originally formed right after Curze was found. The first Nostramans basically. Some stuff happens in the beginning, Curze slaps the Captain with the Sinner's Red and cuts the company off from the recruitment chain, condemning it to a slow death as punishment to the captain. Over the course of the Crusade, the company does receive recruits, but only in the form of the outcasts. Basically the Night Lords nobody else wants, whether they be Sinners, bad luck charms, so on so forth. Sometimes entire squads of political victims get thrown in. Ironically, this shared need for survival creates a brotherhood among those who wouldn't normally be considered brothers.

 

And then when the Heresy breaks out and Curze sees the Gal Vorbak at Istvaan V, he is filled with revulsion and hate, much like the rest of his Legion. Then during the next few months, a squad does something really really really stupid(I will forever leave that bit undisclosed) and Curze gets a sick idea. If these guys hate possessed are expecting death at his[Curze] hands with all the pain and misery that follows, let them live but in a way no Night Lord, not even Sinners would accept living. Let their bodies become twisted and tainted by the power of the warp they hate. Make them become the very monsters that make even the stomach of a Nostraman ganger curl in upon itself.

 

And then they basically become the unit of the shunned within the company of the shunned. Unable to find brotherhood neither with those who found it in the most unlikely of places nor themselves. Which actually sounds like a good reason for the - Ld. The Icons of Judgement could serve as a mandatory tax, although maybe make them the "Icons of Revulsion" and maybe only make it so those without the rule Legiones Astartes have to take the Fear test. Thinking of also adding in a bit, "When in base contact with an enemy unit, that unit gains Hatred(Tormented;that's what I'm thinking of calling these guys) while remaining in base contact." Very fluffy and I feel like also adds just enough of a negative to help balance them with a Night Lords list while also making them viable enough to let others house rule.

 

I'm thinking of letting them keep the wargear options the Gal Vorbak have access to, only for modelling options. I mean, these guys are possessed. Actual wargear isn't necessarily a necessity, but it just seems appropriate for some reason.

[helterskelter]

Red handed libby mucking about with chaos as he's got nothing to lose anyway, just so happens to chat with a word bearer at some point, hears of the gal vorbak, dehelms, twists his twirly mootache, tricks a selection of his nasty fellows into a tainted room, mwahaha, a few pop back up ala demon, bound to libby ( whom you can give fear icon too) and go about their gruesome budiness?

[Kol Saresk]

 

Red handed libby mucking about with chaos as he's got nothing to lose anyway, just so happens to chat with a word bearer at some point, hears of the gal vorbak, dehelms, twists his twirly mootache, tricks a selection of his nasty fellows into a tainted room, mwahaha, a few pop back up ala demon, bound to libby ( whom you can give fear icon too) and go about their gruesome budiness?

Hmm no. I'm envisioning as the punishment befitting an insane judge.

[helterskelter]

Judge Death? Or Judge Cal?

[Russ Brother 92]

Deffo Judge Death - he had some funky stuff going on - him or Torquemada :p

 

Anyways - I do think having some kind of Chaplain or Libby commanding the unit - OR a Sgt upgradeable to lvl 1 psyker w/ Biomancy or Pyromancy?

[GhostMalone]

I'm thinking kol dedicated transport

 

Storm eagle and jet packs

They are thrown into the fray straight away.

To give their lives for penitence

[spu00sed]

I'm doing something similar with my Emperors Children. A punishment battalion for those who have failed their primarch or lord commanders.

 

However I kept it simple and made them destroyers. Seething along the lines of, "here is a jump pack and some rad grenades. Go serve your legion with honour or die of radiation poisoning, or whatever. I really don't care, just get out if my sight."

[depthcharge12]

Maybe skew the Lamenter's rule to that the possessed are great in close combat but are incredibly unlucky and must reroll successful armor saves

 

 

Prolly no armor support since that would suggest protection, most likely the only allowable one would be drop pods as they are dropped onto a planet and left to their devices and only picked up if they achieve their objective.

 

 

 

I see the special rules as more of a trade off. If you want really fluffy, give them auto include fear stuff, give them a special rule that if they defeat a squad in cc, they get to "scavange equipment" and give them a special weapon or such. But make it that your opponent may force you to reroll saves and he is allowed to reroll blast templates on you