After watching some people play Ravenwing... I have Q's

[Prot]

Hello guys,

 

I hope everyone is having a good holiday in their festive red/green Termie suits while I still prefer a jet black sled with gifts in the form of Corvus Hammers!

 

Anyway, before I started playing Ravenwing in my area, really nobody else was so I get my advice from here, and with some experimenting of my own I thought I was doing fairly well.

 

But I have been watching some batreps of people playing Ravenwing and I've come to the conclusion I might be accidentally cheating, or they are doing it wrong.... I figure I better ask some questions at this point.

 

1. Dakka Banner:

This is a big one. The way I am doing it: I put the banner in the middle/back of the command squad. I have a large "V" formation of squads surrounding the Command squad making sure at least ONE bike from each squad is touching the 6" circumference of the Dakka Banner. I use this to get my 4 shots at 24" per bike. Am I doing this illegally?

 

2. Shround skimmer: I read the rules over and over and I am usually giving the Shroud +1 cover save added to Jink (for a bonus of 2 to the cover save). Am I doing this wrong?

 

3. Shrouding other squads: Using the forementioned "V" formation the Shroud usually follows the Command squad. I try to have one bike from every squad within 6" of the Shroud to get the whole squad the Shroud ability. 

 

4. Sammael: Has skilled Rider, anyone with skilled rider is getting +1 to jink, plus the shroud's +1 to jink. If I turbo the bikes?

 

5. Hit and Run. I am conferring that via Sammael to Assault bike squads.

 

 

I think that's it for now. I'd appreciate some feedback because I'm noticing a lot of players NOT doing this stuff. So I'm worried I'm making stuff up here that my opponents aren't catching me on because they are unfamiliar with pure Ravenwing!!

[Pyro X]

1. yes.

2. jink is 5+ cover, with shroud is 4+, shroud and turboboost is 3+. and stealth gives a further +2 to a max of 2+ cover.

3. shroud and stealth is a rule that if 1 person has it, they all have it, so yes 1 model in the 6" bubble is fine. same as PSG

4. skill rider is given to the whole squad, same as some other rules.

5. correct.

[Komrk]

I believe the bikes only get the 24" range if they don't move but I can't remember the rules that the bikes have.

[Cyfax]

Hey there Prot, although I don't play full ravenwing myself I'll try to answer some of the questions:

 

1. Yes it's legal, only part of the unit (so one bike will suffice) needs to be within 6".

 

2. If you mean the Shroud gives the +1 to other units (as it doesn't affect the Darkshroud itself) you are doing it right, as Jink counts as a cover save. So assuming you'd be in open territory with a bike and moved regularly it would be a 4+ cover saves (5+ regular, +1 from Shroud).

 

3. Shroud also says it confers the bonus to the whole unit (not just the model), so you only need to cover a part of it. e.g. one biker as you said.

 

4. If you turbo the bike you'll end up with a 2+ cover save, 4+ standard with turbo boost, +1 Skilled rider, +1 Shroud gives you a 2+ save.

 

5. The attack squadrons already have hit & run, so do not need Sammael to get it. But in the case of any unit without hit & run, that is joined by Sammael, the whole units receives hit & run from Sammael as the Hit & run rules states only one model in the unit needs to have it (and in this case Sammael is part of this unit).

 

Hope that helps!

[Pyro X]

bikes have relentless so they are able to move, use salvo weapons, and then charge as well if they want.

[Prot]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses. So what this does tell me is that the people I'm seeing with Ravenwing, aren't really using them to their potential very well. For a while I thought I might be cheating a bit.

 

On conferrring special rules with Sam:  Does he confer Skilled Rider and Hit and Run to his squad? For some reason I am remembering I typically keep Sam with a big bike squad (6 dudes) and try to expand his special skills.

[Pyro X]

yes he does. also you could put a librarian in as well (or with black knights) and he gets hit and run and skilled rider as well.

[Cyfax]

Yep he does, both Skilled Rider and Hit & Run state that only 1 model needs to have this speciale rule for the whole unit to benefit from it. So e.g. in the case of an attack squadron (who do not have Skilled Rider) they can benefit from skilled rider if Sammael joins them.

[Brother dean]

3. shroud and stealth is a rule that if 1 person has it, they all have it, so yes 1 model in the 6" bubble is fine. same as PSG

By the rules, Shroud confers to every UNIT with a model within 6". Power Field Generator (PSG?) confers a save onto every MODEL inside the 3"... So the PFG only saves on individual models not units.

 

Also, everybody please note that the Dark Shroud no longer confers Stealth to itself per the FAQ. (unless they have changed it recently, goes to check for a new faq.)

 

Yes.  You have been doing it right.

[Pyro X]

my bad, its still early here. your right. lol

[Brother dean]

I know...   After all the hype the PFG was getting online I read it wrong for quite some time...

[Pyro X]

I've tried using the PFG (thought it was personal shield not field lol) but I don't think I'd use them much unless its green/deathwing

[like the lion]

1. yes.

2. jink is 5+ cover, with shroud is 4+, shroud and turboboost is 3+. and stealth gives a further +2 to a max of 2+ cover.

3. shroud and stealth is a rule that if 1 person has it, they all have it, so yes 1 model in the 6" bubble is fine. same as PSG

4. skill rider is given to the whole squad, same as some other rules.

5. correct.

 

I disagree with your understanding of shrouded and stealth. Only the ravenwing darkshroud has shrouded, which adds +2 to your cover save. Ths darkshroud does not have stealth it was in the errata faq update. The shroud of angels special rule says the darkshroud benefits from shrouded, in addition it confers stealth to friendly units within 6" of one or more darkshrouds and does not affect the darkshroud itself. Unless you have two darkshrouds within 6" of each other than neither of them have stealth, if you are reffering to the special rule "stealth" listed in the darkshroud entry on page 102 than it was taken away in the errata faq update.

[Pyro X]

I misunderstood what he had asked at first. I thought he had asked for his bike, what all stacked. I know that shrouds (the skimmer) doesn't get shroud (the effect) from other shrouds or from itself.

[Prot]

Yes, that was what I was asking.... I had assumed the only thing the Shroud got was its 5+ from being a skimmer, correct?

[Pyro X]

Correct because of jink.

[Brother dean]

 

Yes, that was what I was asking.... I had assumed the only thing the Shroud got was its 5+ from being a skimmer, correct?

Well according to this:

I disagree with your understanding of shrouded and stealth. Only the ravenwing darkshroud has shrouded, which adds +2 to your cover save. Ths darkshroud does not have stealth it was in the errata faq update. The shroud of angels special rule says the darkshroud benefits from shrouded, in addition it confers stealth to friendly units within 6" of one or more darkshrouds and does not affect the darkshroud itself. Unless you have two darkshrouds within 6" of each other than neither of them have stealth, if you are reffering to the special rule "stealth" listed in the darkshroud entry on page 102 than it was taken away in the errata faq update.

it gives itself a +2. I am away from my codex and will look it up again in a couple hours.

[like the lion]

No, The Darkshroud skimmer does indeed get the shrouded special rule. Its says so specifically in the "shroud of angels" special that belongs to the dark shroud. It gets shrouded(+2 to cover save) and it also gives stealth(+1 to cover save) to friendly units withing 6". The only way a darkshroud can get stealth in addition to its shrouded special is if there are two darkshrouds within 6" of each other.

[like the lion]

Yes, that was what I was asking.... I had assumed the only thing the Shroud got was its 5+ from being a skimmer, correct?

 

No, the dark shroud gets a 3+ cover save if it moves and a 2+ if it moves flat out. It gives itself shrouded(+2 to cover save), in addition it gives stealth and not shrouded to friendly units.

[Pyro X]

darkshroud has "shroud" by default. it gives stealth to other units (can't be given to other darkshrouds or itself). the rule shroud gives +2, stealth gives +1.

 shimmers get 5+ normally (flat out 4+) cover saves base before the +2 for the shroud (3+ normal, 2+ flat out covers).

[SvenONE]

I think the confusing part is calling the Darkshroud just "shroud" for short.  There's a lot of shrouding going on!

 

But what Pyro just said is correct.

 

I've also actually used 2 darkshrouds before to give each other stealth.  I interpret that rule as "the Darkshroud does not give stealth to itself via Shroud of Angels", but a second darkshroud is a Dark Angels unit, and thus benefiting from the Shroud.  It's a stretch of the rule but I believe it's legit.

[CovertToaster]

Yes pyro and sven have it right.

 

The darkshroud has the shroud USR via the shroud of angels rule and gives the stealth USR to all friendly units within 6", note it says units not models!

 

The confusion is in the back of the codex as GW listed both shroud and stealth USR's on it's rules profile and the FAQ corrects this by removing the stealth USR.

 

I can't find a reason why one darkshroud can't give another darkshroud the stealth USR as I belive it states in the BRB that both stealth and shroud stack but I'm not going to check. Also I can't find a reason why you would want to waste the shroud of angels ability by running darkshrouds side by side.

[SvenONE]

I ran them 6" apart while supporting my pure RW list.  Rather than turboboosting for the 2+ every time and essentially spending 80 points and an FA slot on something that's basically a piece of wargear, I brought a second one and rounded out my FA with a full squad of RWBKs.

 

It worked well enough for the distraction alone.  I haven't run a list like that often enough to say it was certified awesome, but it did support my bikes.

 

I own two because I will run one with a LSV in my GW lists.

[Pyro X]

as long as your not going up vs ppl that ignore cover saves its a good thing to run. A fun thing to do also if your able to do more shooty than not is hide it behind a rhino or something to keep it out of LoS and right beside an ADL so the models get a 2+ cover save inside it :D

[like the lion]

darkshroud has "shroud" by default. it gives stealth to other units (can't be given to other darkshrouds or itself). the rule shroud gives +2, stealth gives +1.

 shimmers get 5+ normally (flat out 4+) cover saves base before the +2 for the shroud (3+ normal, 2+ flat out covers).

 

why cant one dark shroud give stealth to another dark shroud? The special rule only says it cannot give stealth to itself only. therefore a 2nd darkshroud can give steal to a darkshrooud