Bringers of Dispair

[FENRISÚLFUR]

With all the talking going on about the Black Legion I wanted to look at the upgrade Bringers of Dispair and see if there was a way to make them worth the extra points for BoD and VotLW. At first glance the extra WS and BS means that they are going to more reliably hit when shooting and when in close combat.

 

Being able to rely on these guys hitting with combi more often is great, but worth the points? Another concern is that there is still no deepstrike migration mitigation and they would have to be placed in precarious positions to even be able to benefit from the combi's when tank hunting. Maybe tank hunting isn't the way to go but rather squad hunting?

 

These guys, I think, would be great at dealing with troops and other (non th/ss) elite units. The extra BS on combi plasma and the increased chance to hit in cc means they could do quite a number on a squad when they shoot/assault. Granted we are still left with either walking them, deepstriking them, or buying a land raider to cart them around in but this is the lot we have cast...

 

Anyone else use them to any effect or just have fun using them? What loadouts are you using or thinking may work?

[Sception]

Well, between abby's warlord trait, and their BS5, they do tend to hit and wound on twos, re-rolling ones with those combi plasmaguns.

 

But then you remember that they're like 45 points a guy, only shoot those guns once per game, and don't have an affordable/reliable means of getting into firing range. And while terminators are tough, they aren't 45 points tough, that's pushing the mutilator range, and their single wound is really starting to hurt.

 

Then you remember that you had to pay for Abaddon, so the points hit is even heavier. But they assault good. But you have abaddon. Any unit with Abaddon assaults good.

 

 

In the end, no, both the vets upgrade and the BoD upgrade are rather hideously overpriced on chaos terminators, which don't do anything particularly well for their points cost besides MSU suicide/distraction runs. In the end, the BoD are just another expensive, slow, elite, short range/melee unit without a decent delivery method. They're not bad like possessed, and if you get lucky on a deep strike, and then get lucky on saves, and then get lucky on assault distance, then you sure will hand some unit their rear. But they are just a lottle bit pricey for what they do.

 

Sadly, in bigger escalation or apocalypse games where you shouldn't feel the points crunch so badly they're even worse, as despite costing 500 to 1,000 points they still die like a handful of grots when hit with a D weapon.

[abadizzle]

Yeah I agree w malisteen on this one... Also they're one unit I would use to crush Thammer SS termis... Since you need abaddon to use them you should keep them close to him for preferred enemy bubble. Load them up w combi-plas and power axes. Shooting means hit and wound on 2s re-rolling all 1s to hit and wound. Brutality. But then again... Preferred enemy combi-plas wrecks even without BS5... Ill try em sometime but they do seem pretty overly expensive and slightly unnecessary.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I agree with all of the points Mal has brought up too, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and find a role for them.  Your example is one such case, that interaction sounds nasty, which is what the Black Legion should be - elite and nasty. Maybe it could be argued that the chosen would be more points efficient for the role you laid out, but the terminators will survive so much more with their 2+ save.  The down side is that its combi plasma and only one use.

 

I know the chaos terminators have a lot going against them, and even more so when you add VotLW and BoD but i'm not giving up just yet.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Just an idea but what if the terminators were run something like this

 

 

Chaos terminators x3

VotLW

Bringers of Despair

Mark of Slaanesh

Icon of Excess

x2 power axes, 3x combi-plasma, chain fist

 

This would give the unit more durability with FnP from the Icon. 6 str 5 ap2 hatred attacks at ws5, and 3 str 8 ap 2 hatred attacks at ws 5. They also have rapid fire plasma shots to deal with high toughness models or models with 2+saves. They do clock in at just over 200 points, but they are very resilient and can threaten many different units.

[Lord Doyok]

I would take them with CMeltas, and put them in a LR.

Maybe 2 Land Raider, 1 for them, and another one for Abbadon and a troop unit.

Other than that, don't know how else to play them. 

[daboarder]

I think, IF I was going to run them Id look at a big ten man nurgle unit with a pair of reaper auto cannons, walk up the middle and shoot for the funnies.

in fact I may just convert up another 5 terminators just to do that.....

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I would take them with CMeltas, and put them in a LR.

Maybe 2 Land Raider, 1 for them, and another one for Abbadon and a troop unit.

Other than that, don't know how else to play them. 

 For anything other than armor 14 the combi-plasma is better due to the extra shots you can get through rapid fire. With the unit targeting high profile elites and troops, the extra shots are hands down the better option for the same points. Also, by putting them in a LR you are making their points sink even bigger than it already is although you do give them a more reliably way to reach their target.

[abadizzle]

Hmm... I'd be tempted to try a 7-man squad armed to the teeth w plas, axes, chainfists, pfist champ, abaddon, and maybe a lvl 3 telepathy termi sorcerer w axe. I think marks of any sort would be too expensive (on an already crazy expensive unit). Game plan would probably be conservatively DS the unit into the middle of the field and watch your opponents head spin. Sadly I still feel the BoD upgrade is wasted pts. Also to daboarder- everything in your unit is twin linked anyway (assuming you're using twin-bolters on the termis... So the +1 BS seems overkill) and fenrisulfur- that unit just seems way too tiny for the pts investment- and MoS is wasted on initiative 1 guys anywho... I get the FnP icon but it seems unreliable for the investment on a 3 model unit. Hmm damn the +6 pts per model... Damnit damnit damnit

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Hmm... I'd be tempted to try a 7-man squad armed to the teeth w plas, axes, chainfists, pfist champ, abaddon, and maybe a lvl 3 telepathy termi sorcerer w axe. I think marks of any sort would be too expensive (on an already crazy expensive unit). Game plan would probably be conservatively DS the unit into the middle of the field and watch your opponents head spin. Sadly I still feel the BoD upgrade is wasted pts. Also to daboarder- everything in your unit is twin linked anyway (assuming you're using twin-bolters on the termis... So the +1 BS seems overkill) and fenrisulfur- that unit just seems way too tiny for the pts investment- and MoS is wasted on initiative 1 guys anywho... I get the FnP icon but it seems unreliable for the investment on a 3 model unit. Hmm damn the +6 pts per model... Damnit damnit damnit

 

 

I was trying to keep the unit cheaper by limiting its size. Undoubtedly the smaller size hurts the cost per model, and maybe they would be better suited to a larger unit. The MoS is only taken to unlock the Banner of Excess for Fnp, and with a larger unit size I would more than likely keep some of them equipt with at initiative weapons.

[chillin]

fenrisulfur, you made a 200 pt 3 man suicide  unit, that can be taken out w a few plaz shots . They have 6 plaz shots (assuming you get a good DS roll) and then will die. I would like for BoD to work too , but this just isn't viable.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Any suggestions for way to improve them Chillin? I understand that it is an expensive unit and may not be the best way to run them, but without excercising our creative minds we may never find the best way. It is far to easy to sit back and say 'Meh, they suck don't take them' then it is to find a good way to use them. I prefer the challenge

[Vesper]

I hope AD-B came up with a better name for them, that'd be a cool improvement.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I hope AD-B came up with a better name for them, that'd be a cool improvement.

 

 

If AD-B can make possessed cool, he can make anything cool!

[chillin]

I think maybe larger unit , geared w plaz but also for CC (then the + BS AND + WS would BOTH be used), maybe making it (hopefully) worth the pts. Obviously will make them more expensive total, but hopefully do enough damage to be worth the pts. Problem is (as always with chaos now) getting them into hth with out them getting shot to $hit. Maybe 7 or 8 man, 3 or 4 w combi-plaz , one hvy flamer, at least one twin LC, at least 1 PF, a couple of naked so the 1st few dead will be "cheap". Would not be able to DS them in "where you wanted them" bc where you want them is probably going to get them killed. Have to have them hide out of LoS for a couple of turns , or DS in where they cant be gang beat but can be in rapid fire and assault range with in a turn or two. Whether chilling out 1st couple of turns or DS'ing in, Maybe a mid-field objective would be better target for them , then in the enemies back-field, which is the traditional place where termi's are dropped.

.

Hey, I not saying all this would be EZ, but you wanted a suggestion on how to make them worth the pts . I don't know if this is it, but I know making a more expensive termicide unit isn't.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Those are all very good ideas Chillin. I agree that more bodies and some attacks at initiative would help these guys out a lot! I like the idea of having FnP on them to help make then just a bit more survivable.

[A D-B]

I hope AD-B came up with a better name for them, that'd be a cool improvement.

 

Already done, long before the supplement was conceived, and I've not added it to the novel. This is one of those names that might work well as a unit entry, but just can't be written with a straight face in prose or dialogue.

[Noctus Cornix]

 

I hope AD-B came up with a better name for them, that'd be a cool improvement.

 

Already done, long before the supplement was conceived, and I've not added it to the novel. This is one of those names that might work well as a unit entry, but just can't be written with a straight face in prose or dialogue.

 

Honestly I just always imagined it as the one of many titles held by Abaddon's personal bodyguards or elite force so I never really minded all that much.

[A D-B]

 

 

I hope AD-B came up with a better name for them, that'd be a cool improvement.

 

Already done, long before the supplement was conceived, and I've not added it to the novel. This is one of those names that might work well as a unit entry, but just can't be written with a straight face in prose or dialogue.

 

Honestly I just always imagined it as the one of many titles held by Abaddon's personal bodyguards or elite force so I never really minded all that much.

 

Pretty much. Plenty of bombastic titles out there.

[nurglez]

Mr Bombastic?

[Vesper]

Oh yeah, I get it's a title among a ton of those.

I would've appreciated to get a few examples of said titles, though, instead of just the Bringers of Despair, that I find pretty meh.
 

 

 

Already done, long before the supplement was conceived (...).

I knew it.

Can't wait to read what you've prepared for those guys who are a scary bunch, I suppose.

Can we at least get their name ? Like that, for no other reason than the fact that I'm a pretty nice guy, and that the rest of the Chaos board is fine too.

Oh, and on the "best legion" thread, I get that you've read stuff about Normans (among others, of course), and let me tell you, for the Norman that I am, you've reached the final level of awesomeness.