Morticon Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hey guys. Going into a tourney next weekend - 2k and all the new rules. Should be good fun. Ive decided to attempt making a point. Whether or not I can make it is another story. I'm looking to taking BA - no allies, no forts, no lords of war - just good ol' fashioned BA. Should be good fun :D Will keep you posted on development. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Unless the point is going to be, "I should keep flirting with Dark Angels..." Obviously I jest. Are you going for your standard list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Should be fun, Mort. I take it you are going for a gimmick? Take-all-comer list is difficult with straight up BA nowadays! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Should be fun, Mort. I take it you are going for a gimmick? Take-all-comer list is difficult with straight up BA nowadays! 100% right! I am! I'm expecting at least 4 titans - and probably not more than a dozen players. So, the chance of me facing one in a 5game tourney is big. Ive been made aware of the stupid killer combos out there - but I dont foresee the players doing that so much. I foresee a lot of Eldar though. Not much Tau, some orks and a smattering of other stuff. After being inspired by the "Titan Killer" thread here a while back I've looked to two (maybe 3) options. 1. Dante's Inferno Drop. 2. Vanguard MB strike 3. Ravens. Considering that Super Heavies can currently be locked in combat by even the smallest unit, I intend flying mephy in on a raven, and smashing its face in (hoping he doesnt roll a 6 on stomp!) Currently looking at this: Mephiston Corbulo Fraggy - MG, Mgna Grp Pod 5x ASM - Flamer Razor - TLPG, LC 5x ASM - Flamer Razor - TLPG, LC 5x ASM - Flamer Razor - TLAC 10x ASM - 2MG,Paxe, MB 10x VVets - 8MB, 1PF Raven - TLAC, TLMM Raven - TLAC, TLMM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 For some reason I had a feeling you would go for VV, maybe as they are different to the Vanilla dudes nowadays, they seem more BA now than ever before. Looks pretty strong to me with the Fragioso as an attempt at first blood, 4 troops, Corbs, Meph and the Ravens. I like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ya, the Vets and that strike in is just excellent. Theyre only likely to lose one guy en route, and then they have 8 meltas to wreck shizzle- and no normal saves from that! Fraggy is there to do a little bubblewrap clearance. This was the other version: Meph Corbs Fraggy1 in pod Fraggy2 in pod 3x5 ASM in razors 10x ASM in Pod Raven 10 Vanvets That version is to ensure that the 2 fraggy pods come in and clear the way. But I cant protect enough troops in that one (via the Ravens!) Im lookin at the Ravens as an opp to avoid losing stuff. Warlord/KP etc. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I played a "normal" BA list last weekend against one of the regular SM opponents in my club who used stronghold assault. IIRC he bought about 500 pts worth of buildings and emplaced weapons to a 1995pt game. 2 bastions, 2 defence lines, tank traps and extra interceptor weapons for a total of 4. I knew he was up to something but didn't know exactly what he'd bring so I kinda went overboard. Mephiston 3*5 Vanguard veterans with 4 melta bombs each and various weapons on the sergeants. 3*frag cannon dreads in pods, all with grapples, one with heavy flamer. podded DC podded TAC squad Whirlwind podded dreadnought with twinlinked heavy flamer and heavy flamer. He threw in the towel on turn 3, would probably have wiped him in my turn or turn 4. EDIT: Forgot the HS dread! EDIT 2: Also forgot that I put locator beacons on most of the pods to really make sure that the vanguards wouldn't scatter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 and a picture of the whole mess sometime around turn two! http://i.imgur.com/qdrZ3Ic.jpg?1 Don't try to castle against podding template weapons... This game was pretty much won and lost in the deployment phase. I only lost a couple of hull points here and there plus the DC, but dying is in their job description :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Its a toughie because I play with two Fragioso's and love the ability to really wrong foot somebody early on, and more often than not 1 survives a turn to wreak more havoc. Two Ravens is tough to deal with and could potentially cause more damage to LoW especially if they arrive close together. I say this time go with the two Ravens, more difficult to kill and as you say you can hide more dudes who are also 'jumpy', I hate podded RAS (would you put these/half of them in the Raven?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What about a void shield generator, placed somewhere in the midfield to protect you first turn Mort? :) The Vanguard Vets certainly are an awesome option to clear out titans and such, very nice idea. They need the fragiosos to clear the bubblewrap though, and preferrably more than one, so I would like list 2 more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Don't try to castle against podding template weapons... This game was pretty much won and lost in the deployment phase. He should have casteled up , but in a corner . Should have taken cortez too , if he plans to play with expansions . should put the towers/bastions in the middle [if he wanted to deploy like he did] or at the back [if he deployed like he should] . This way he would have 2 AA guns to shot pods , 1 cortez dedicted unit [preferably something like a unit of command squad grav guns or ally DA raven knights] . All in all looks like he went for "looks" and tried to do some "real life" tactics in w40k . As far as the lists go . Technicly the 2 raven one is better. But considering stronghold , flyers may not be as safe as yout think . Also does escalation mean . Escalation supplement or that + any LoW made by FW? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3565961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 The TO has not explicitly allowed FW, which is completely silly- but we can write in to request other LoW be added if need be. And Jeske, the ppls in SA havent had time/money to invest in stronghold buildings wtih good anti-air options just yet. As an example, regionally, no one has bought the Firestorm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I used to think Coteaz was tricky but these days I'm happy if I see him, he's such an easy warlord VP! :D One S6 wound and SQUISH! Deployment was definitely bad, but protecting a building completely is really tricky since you need about 9" of bubblewrap (in pretty much every direction) to be safe from the frag cannons. So you either really lock yourself in a corner (which has problems of its own) or you have to juggle the points to afford expensive battlements, lots of bubblewrap and units worthwhile of using a building as the firebase. Oh, you probably have to worry about objectives at some point too. It's not as easy as one might think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogen Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Mort- you may consider going for a 3rd Raven - a lot of the nasty escalation/eldar toys can't handle them effectively. Plus, it give you options with your assault squads if you want to hold them off and deploy in the Ravens, eh? Three Ravens flying around depositing scoring units toward the end of the game is big trouble for a whole lot of armies, and they just might pack enough punch to take out a lord of war. The VVets are certainly cool, but pricey. If they traded for a titan/lord of war well then no worries but do you feel there will be enough priority targets in each game? Will there likely be other players like yourself bringing a more "standard" list? What about interceptor? Worried at all they might get blasted from the sky? One note, could you post some of the rulings from escalation for us? How exactly do void shields work (ie vs blast templates, other poorly worded or non-addressed issues with these things) or the dimensions on some of the emplacements without models (some specify length but not width, etc)? Cheers, and good luck! -Orogen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think the most interesting question is how much Tau missile spam and how many wave serpents you expect? If the answer to any of those is "a lot" then I say leave the razors (and maybe the extra storm ravens) at home. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Im expecting to see quite a few Serps (not excessive - maybe 4 or so in an army) Tau, there will be at least 1, maybe 2 players. All hinges on one of the top local players here and whether he brings Tau, Eldar or a mix of both. The Tau are the only ones im really worried about Re: intercept. The issue with Razors/no-razors is that I dont think we have many other viable and efficient troop choices. My initial plan btw was this: Mephiston DA Libby - LVL2, Bike, Ausp 5x RWCS - Apoth, Champ, Grnd Corbulo 1x Fragioso 1x Pod. 2x 5man BA ASM - Flamer 2x Razors - Las/plas 1x 5man BA ASM - Flamer 1x Razors - TLAC 1x 5man DA TAC 1x Razor - TLAC Raven 8x Vanguard Vets - 6 MB, 1PW. but, i wanted to go 100% BA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I would try to find a place for at least the powerfield generator or in most optimal version a techmarine with one. For example small unit of Venguard[5-6 dudes] , one of the razors downgraded to hvy bolter it would have been good. 100% BA is hard . But am going to be honest anyone who plays BAs in tournaments to play at tournaments , has my deep respect. Harder then playing DE. And Jeske, the ppls in SA havent had time/money to invest in stronghold buildings wtih good anti-air options just yet. Two cans of Tomco sugar beens and an empty box of Amarula to form the intersection and one is ready . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 100% BA is hard . But am going to be honest anyone who plays BAs in tournaments to play at tournaments , has my deep respect. Harder then playing DE. Actually, I've had quite some sucess with all reserve lists, fragiosos and ravens due to people no longer having any clue how to handle it :D Even eldar serpent spam is not hopeless if you have enough ravens. However, it's the only style I've found to be viable, and if you play the same people all the time, they start figuring it out unfortunately :/ I would definitely scratchbuild some void shield generator, it shouldn't be hard to create something that looks convincing :) same thing with the firestorm redoubt, it's not that complex of a building. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Generator you can only have as part of a building though -so which building? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 100% BA is hard . But am going to be honest anyone who plays BAs in tournaments to play at tournaments , has my deep respect. Harder then playing DE. I play both, and would agree with this. (I also play pure - yet to use allies in any of my games). Dark Eldar don't have very much margin for error, and one or two mistakes are often enough to lose the game. But they often win big, and I've achieved borderline total domination in the past. BA on the other hand, I generally find that I'm using most of my ~16 years experience playing them just to try and eke something out. I win a good proportion of my games, but they're usually pyrrhic victories - it's very rare for me to have much left. I've not been active on the forum all that much recently because I'm finding Blood Angels simply less enjoyable to play because of how much work you have to put in to get any kind of result; that and the fact that my LGC has a surprisingly high number of active BA players and not many DE players, so I find it's nice to bring some variety to the proceedings. On topic, I like this list: Mephiston Corbulo Fraggy - MG, Mgna Grp Pod 5x ASM - Flamer Razor - TLPG, LC 5x ASM - Flamer Razor - TLPG, LC 5x ASM - Flamer Razor - TLAC 10x ASM - 2MG,Paxe, MB 10x VVets - 8MB, 1PF Raven - TLAC, TLMM Raven - TLAC, TLMM But I -might- be tempted to split those VVs down into 2 squads of 5, just to try and tag multiple targets. Really depends how concerned you are about interceptor (nothing you're going to target with them can overwatch). Do you really need the axe and the meltabomb on the ASM sergeant? I've tried the axe but I find that the sarge just tends to go squish before he does anything; at best it's mutually assured destruction dropping a terminator or something, but very often he gets challenged out and smacked in the face by something since he's I1 using it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 But I -might- be tempted to split those VVs down into 2 squads of 5, just to try and tag multiple targets.The glory of combat squads. Including them as a unit of 10 only takes up 1 FOC slot, and you can decide per game whether you want 2x5 or 1x10. Fielding 2x5 as separate slots costs more (sergeant tax), is less flexible, and uses 2 slots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 @Mort I'm not quite sure which buildings can have void shields, will have to check that out. @Admetus I started running denial-heavy lists, sometimes deploying only Mephiston, some scouts and a comms relay behind a bastion, out of line of sight. Then drop 2 empty pods turn one, and bring in multiple ravens, outflanking baal preds and fragiosos turn 2. It's still hard to really win though against experienced opponents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 But I -might- be tempted to split those VVs down into 2 squads of 5, just to try and tag multiple targets.The glory of combat squads. Including them as a unit of 10 only takes up 1 FOC slot, and you can decide per game whether you want 2x5 or 1x10. Fielding 2x5 as separate slots costs more (sergeant tax), is less flexible, and uses 2 slots. Derp... that's what I get for only typing a half-finished thought late at night. Also intended to ask - do you intend taking the Glaive Encarmine on the sergeant, or leaving him with his sword? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 But I -might- be tempted to split those VVs down into 2 squads of 5, just to try and tag multiple targets.The glory of combat squads. Including them as a unit of 10 only takes up 1 FOC slot, and you can decide per game whether you want 2x5 or 1x10. Fielding 2x5 as separate slots costs more (sergeant tax), is less flexible, and uses 2 slots. Derp... that's what I get for only typing a half-finished thought late at night. Also intended to ask - do you intend taking the Glaive Encarmine on the sergeant, or leaving him with his sword? Sword or Axe I think. I prefer Axe for the Ap2 and +1 S. Defs wont go Glaive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3566979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Generator you can only have as part of a building though -so which building? Looks like I misread this in the book! Turns out you can buy a non-descrip size powerfield generator! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285442-escalationstronghold-tournament-2k/#findComment-3568032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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