Karthak Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This has bugged me for a while now. Curze destroyed Nostramo because in his absence it had regressed to the state it had been in prior to his arrival, and to stop the flow of poison into his Legion. But why did it even get to that state? Nostramo was a Legion homeworld. And what do Legion Homeworlds like Caliban, Fenris, Nocturne, Macragge, Prospero etc tend to have in common? An Astartes presence. Were there no Night Lords stationed on Nostramo to oversee recruitment? Curze could easily have delegated a bunch of his sons to uphold his laws in his absence. And if Curze didn't like that many of the Nostramo-born recruits had been murderers and/or rapists, why didn't he simply send a message to the planet saying "higher standards, or I wear your skin as a cape." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I've never seen it impressed in night lords fluff that there were any on nostramo unless they needed recruits. So no night lords = no threat of retribution for being naughty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe that was part of his grand social experiment? I toughened them up Balthius. Now let's see if your brand of justice will work. Then as Kurze degenerated he didn't really care to give Nostramo any more lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I've never seen it impressed in night lords fluff that there were any on nostramo unless they needed recruits. So no night lords = no threat of retribution for being naughty Hm. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I imagine Nostramo was "allowed" to fall in a similar manner as Olympus was "allowed" to fall. And punished just as harshly for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 And if Curze didn't like that many of the Nostramo-born recruits had been murderers and/or rapists, why didn't he simply send a message to the planet saying "higher standards, or I wear your skin as a cape." Because then he wouldn't get as many juicy recruits as he did; lets keep in mind its the barbaric worlds with the feral populace that make the best Astartes recruitment. True, Guilliman made it work, but then he had a certain gift for... I forget the word. And at the end of the day, the good landlord doesn't question what goes on inside a tenant's space, as long as the rent comes when its due. That applies to Curze as much as it does to the imperium at large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Curze treated the people of Nostromo like animals that could only be controlled by having a blade at their throats. When that blade was removed, was it any surprise that they reacted like, well, animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Because then he wouldn't get as many juicy recruits as he did; lets keep in mind its the barbaric worlds with the feral populace that make the best Astartes recruitment. True, Guilliman made it work, but then he had a certain gift for...brainwashing the barbaric recruits into controlled weapons of war using hypno-indoctrination similar to how the Emperor made the Legions before their Priamrchs were found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 LOGISTICS! Beware my ancient Kung-logistics-Fu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Because then he wouldn't get as many juicy recruits as he did; lets keep in mind its the barbaric worlds with the feral populace that make the best Astartes recruitment. True, Guilliman made it work, but then he had a certain gift for...brainwashing the barbaric recruits into controlled weapons of war using hypno-indoctrination similar to how the Emperor made the Legions before their Priamrchs were found? Can't pinpoint the disagreement there. Obligatory passive-aggressive smiley face: :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialIssue Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 In the end, Curze wasn't really trying to bring order and peace - he was only concerned with being proven right. The nihilist in him expected and wanted Nostramo to fall, so that he could point and say to himself that his philosophy was correct, that to bring order and justice monsters like him are necessary. He expects it to happen, and even if sub-consciously, encourages the conditions for it to happen. He hates his legion, but again, its just another internalised vindication of his philosophy and world outlook that he uses to justify and self-ratify himself. Not to mention his premonitions, that were getting worse. I imagine by this stage Curze, while still dealing in cartomancy, is only doing so out of half-hearted habit and curiosity. He has given up on trying to change what he sees, of finding another path, and is fatalistically embracing his visions as destiny. He is destined to destroy Nostramo, and so does little to prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Things to do, armies to slaughter, systems to brutalize. Why police your world when there are plenty of worlds who haven't felt the bloody caress of the Talons of the Aquila? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 He probably DID leave some marines on Nostromo. But it's not like the Night Lords were exactly masters of civic management or even at staying focused on stuff besides terrorising people. They probably ended up contributing to the deterioration of the society. This is not to attack the Night Lords - just saying that it was likely they were murderers and rapists themselves in a past life and likely didn't share Curze's genuine abhorrence of criminal behaviour. If they did try to follow Curze's approach, it would likely have been out of fear/duty, not belief. Given the other issues they likely had acting as an effective administrator of the world and it's not a surprise it ended in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Not to mention his premonitions, that were getting worse. I imagine by this stage Curze, while still dealing in cartomancy, is only doing so out of half-hearted habit and curiosity. He has given up on trying to change what he sees, of finding another path, and is fatalistically embracing his visions as destiny. He is destined to destroy Nostramo, and so does little to prevent it. I suppose that's it. The Night Haunter's fatalism is something that has bugged me for some time now. I wonder if anything would gone differently if Sevatar had laid that epic verbal smackdown on Konrad (in prince of crows) several decades earlier than he did, because by the Emperor Curze was in need of therapy. Now there's an interesting idea for a fic. The primarchs going to see a psychologist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Probably not. Interesting idea, but this was the same Primarch who only moments before had a similar verbal smackdown from Dorn. And that ended with Dorn's face being broken in and Nostramo being destroyed. So......... yeah. Sevatar got lucky he was in a Vulcan mind-meld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Latent psykers get all the luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Easy Kurze did'nt do a damn thing other then frightening the populace into submission. He did nothing to alevate overcrowding and populution he did not set down any new laws he did not put the right people in the right places he did not govern he did not set up a law force . All thing he could have done as a primarch. Kurze is easily the biggest disapointment as a primarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Easy to say when every other primarch bar angron got themselves father figures of a variety (I insist sheed ranko was alphariys/omegons equivalent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Easy to say when every other primarch bar angron got themselves father figures of a variety (I insist sheed ranko was alphariys/omegons equivalent) Yeah and look how angron turned out too ;) so that might be a big factor in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You wouldn't be so perky if you were turned into a 10ft tall mean machine angel, now im gonna go up to hnnnnnngh 4 on ya hur hur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Easy Kurze did'nt do a damn thing other then frightening the populace into submission. He did nothing to alevate overcrowding and populution he did not set down any new laws he did not put the right people in the right places he did not govern he did not set up a law force . All thing he could have done as a primarch. Kurze is easily the biggest disapointment as a primarch. Actually, we don't know exactly what Curze did, but the laws he forced the population to obey, were not the laws of Nostramo, but by his laws. THe IA articles say that he made Nostramo a bustling center of trade as the citizens were pretty much given the choice "Become productive or die" and the mining of admantium and then its subsequent trade with the neighboring planets is said to have made Nostramo and its five hive-cities very wealthy. We assume because there was no mention that there was no sort of population control. And he did set up some of the previous rulers as his lackeys. We see this both in the IA article and Prince of Crows. And why would Curze need a law enforcement when he was the law enforcement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Curze was the biggest disappointment? Dear Diary After a mere twenty five years we can finally move on to conquering the next planet in this system. Rearranging the northern island chains into a position that spells out "GOD EMPEROR IS # 1" when viewed from orbit was somewhat time consuming, but I feel the end result was worth it. Have to go now, or I'll nevet finish my nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine "Ave Imperators" before bed time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Kurze was a good damn primarch. If with all the advantages that a primarch has you can't leave your world behind better then you found it then you are a failure. absence of a father figure is not an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Kurze was a good damn primarch. If with all the advantages that a primarch has you can't leave your world behind better then you found it then you are a failure. absence of a father figure is not an excuse. so Angron, Perturabo and the Lion are all failures as well? Huh. Never thought I'd hear that. EDIT: Actually we can also add Russ, Magnus and Mortarion to that since they didn't leave their homeworlds better than they found it either. So a total of seven failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Besides Morty and Angron, what in the nine hells are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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