Blood Angels and Imperial Knights

[Pascalnz]

what's your math for getting 2-4 hull points? smashing grants strength 10 re roll to pen. you could well get 3 pens from an mc, which would grant 5 hull points average. If it's taken even 1 hull point before hand it's gone.

check a presienced wraith knight charging in. 2 strength 10 ap2 shots, 1 strength 10 auto hit ap- 5 attacks strength 10. probably going to kill it, non presienced it's a bit more of a luck thing, but you could just hang out at range pinging off hull points before hand. the WK will beat the IK at a long range fire fight every time

[Bartali]

Seems to me like people are seriously overestimating how easily 6 HPs of AV13 (*3) can be dealt with. Looking at the model it has a wider front arc than many others, particularly tanks like predators, and going 3 means a wide front of AV 13 with easy invul for everyone or obscured shots.

As BA players you surely have noted how much trouble an AV13 walker can be if it gets stuck in? Or how much firepower it takes to reliably kill just one wave serpent?

 

The huge footprint means that placing flyers and swooping MCs might not be as easy as one might think at first. Movement block is an excellent counter flyer tactic and it does have a 12" move even it isn't a jumper or jet pack unit. 

 

In assault you not only have to deal with stomp attacks but also complete immunity to anything other than 'explode' results. Cheap chaff won't be able to keep it occupied for long, deathstar units that do kill it risk being wiped by the following explosion. Good combat MCs do an average about 2-4 HPs before getting killed by the D-weapon.

 

All this is still without going into any buffs and synergies from the rest of the list. Even when taking 3 you still have quite a lot of points to spare in a sub 2k list. So when people are saying how you 'only' need death star like units or throw an equal or greater amount of points at it to bring one down consider what will happen when there are three of them (plus everything else in the list) .

 

It will be a lot of work kill them all off and still win the mission!

 

I agree completely - these take far more shooting to take down than you may think, especially when you run multiples.

[Jorre]

I haven't read the codex yet. So correct me if I'm wrong, are these big boys not scoring models as we'll? if there is one thing my BA force is missing its a durable scoring unit that can hold the back line while my pods come down all over the enemy!!!!

 

Having a decent shooting attack and let's face it not much is going to want to be in assault range of it. It could be a really good way to hold rear objectives.

 

Let's face it how much are you going to be able to send after a knight holding the back line while half a dozen Blood Angel pods are dropping all over your back line!

[Memento Of Prospero]

A 400 point model isn't exactly a great "hold the back line" unit.

[Bartali]

I'd say it's pretty good at sitting on objectives. Durable, good range with it's double Battlecannon shot, and can punch stuff with it's D-Slapper if they get close. Probably better on a midfield objective than one in your deployment zone though.

[Jolemai]

Loving all the copycat threads that are popping up

Regarding how to defeat an Imperial Knight (and other Super-heavy walkers), there's a link to a thread in the Tactica subforum.

[Jolemai]

Question 1)

• Is there any fluff whereby a Knightly house has served alongside the Blood Angels? In particular, I'm after the House name so that I can get hold of the heraldry.

Question 2)

• Will you be getting at least one Imperial Knight?

Honestly, I've not been this excited about a GW model since the current version of Lemartes. They just look fantastic and I love seeing epic models appear in 40k.

 

 

Question 1a) Do we know what Knightly Houses fought on Terra during the siege of the Imperial Palace?

[Jolemai]

Question 1)

• Is there any fluff whereby a Knightly house has served alongside the Blood Angels? In particular, I'm after the House name so that I can get hold of the heraldry.

A bit more digging and I may have an answer. It appears that House Krast has close ties with Legio Metalica, the very Titan Legion we served with during the second and third wars for Armageddon.

Still searching for fluff though

[Cronhour]

Seems to me like people are seriously overestimating how easily 6 HPs of AV13 (*3) can be dealt with. Looking at the model it has a wider front arc than many others, particularly tanks like predators, and going 3 means a wide front of AV 13 with easy invul for everyone or obscured shots.

As BA players you surely have noted how much trouble an AV13 walker can be if it gets stuck in? Or how much firepower it takes to reliably kill just one wave serpent?

 

The huge footprint means that placing flyers and swooping MCs might not be as easy as one might think at first. Movement block is an excellent counter flyer tactic and it does have a 12" move even it isn't a jumper or jet pack unit. 

 

In assault you not only have to deal with stomp attacks but also complete immunity to anything other than 'explode' results. Cheap chaff won't be able to keep it occupied for long, deathstar units that do kill it risk being wiped by the following explosion. Good combat MCs do an average about 2-4 HPs before getting killed by the D-weapon.

 

All this is still without going into any buffs and synergies from the rest of the list. Even when taking 3 you still have quite a lot of points to spare in a sub 2k list. So when people are saying how you 'only' need death star like units or throw an equal or greater amount of points at it to bring one down consider what will happen when there are three of them (plus everything else in the list) .

 

It will be a lot of work kill them all off and still win the mission!

 

av13 is nice, but it's 10 in the rear, potentially exploding to two pens, for nearly 400 points, for that you get 2 battle cannon shots and a heavy stubber shot per turn. It's greatest value will likely come from absorbing the opposing players attention, and shots, but at 400 points you better have enough army left to make use of the distraction.

[Jolemai]

Isn't it AV12 in the rear?

 

Clicky

[ElectricPaladin]

Isn't it AV12 in the rear?

 

Clicky

 

Yes, that's correct.

[Captain Idaho]

Why do people keep saying 400pts? Isn't the Errant version 350pts or was that incorrect? That's like saying a Land Raider is 300pts!

 

I think an Imperial Knight really helps a Blood Angels army. All your high pressure units get a big brother to scare opponents into letting your other units live. So now Blood Angels can concentrate on ripping the hearts out of the foes wih an assault force again.

 

Imperial Knights are an interesting counter foil for Eldar Tau naughtiness. Fast moving and tough, they present a threat that can't be ignored yet aren't scared of S6 and S7 spam. And what do you shoot; fast moving Walker with a SD weapon or your Drop Pod Iron Clad equivalent and transported assault force?

[Jolemai]

I imagine that they are taking into account the potential upgrades that a Knight may take, though the number of 400 is likely to be an estimate at this stage.

[Captain Idaho]

Seems more like people are inflating the costs with assumption as it suits their assertions the unit is poor value for money! :p

 

It's like arguing a Predator with lascannon sponsons is 145pts or a Land Raider is 285pts because those are the points values of the upgrades!

[Blindhamster]

Wolf, what new damage table for D weapons?

[Memento Of Prospero]

D6 - 1
Vehicle or Building - Clipped: The target suffers a penetrating hit.
Non-vehicle - Lucky Escape: The model is unharmed.
D6 - 2-5
Vehicle or Building - Solid Hit: A Super-heavy vehicle loses D3+1 Hull Points. Other
vehicles suffer an Explodes! result from the Vehicle Damage table. Buildings suffer a
Detonation! result from the Building Damage table.
Non-vehicle - Seriously Wounded: The model loses D3+1 Wounds.
D6 - 6
Vehicle or Building - Devastating Hit: As for Solid Hit, above, except a Super-heavy
vehicle loses D6+6 Hull Points instead.
Non-vehicle - Deathblow: The model loses D6+6 Wounds.

 

Also, Stomp is not that deadly against MEQs or weak against TEQs or deathstars in general

[Bartali]

Why do people keep saying 400pts? Isn't the Errant version 350pts or was that incorrect? That's like saying a Land Raider is 300pts!

 

I think an Imperial Knight really helps a Blood Angels army. All your high pressure units get a big brother to scare opponents into letting your other units live. So now Blood Angels can concentrate on ripping the hearts out of the foes wih an assault force again.

 

Imperial Knights are an interesting counter foil for Eldar Tau naughtiness. Fast moving and tough, they present a threat that can't be ignored yet aren't scared of S6 and S7 spam. And what do you shoot; fast moving Walker with a SD weapon or your Drop Pod Iron Clad equivalent and transported assault force?

 

I don't know if Knights fit that well with an Assault BA list. They'd slot right into an AV13 BA mech list though, and I'd sooner run a Knight than a couple of Baals (+80pts).

 

eg

 

Mephiston

2x Furioso Dreads w/ Pods, Frag

1x 5 ASM w/ Flamer; Razorback, TL-HF

1x 5 ASM w/ Flamer; Drop Pod

2x Predator w/ AC,LC

Knight Paladin

 

is 1440pts. Mebbe swop the Preds for ASM in Las/Plas Razors

[Xenith]

Seems more like people are inflating the costs with assumption as it suits their assertions the unit is poor value for money!

It's like arguing a Predator with lascannon sponsons is 145pts or a Land Raider is 285pts because those are the points values of the upgrades!

Out of likes, so quoting.

For an army that lacks battlecannons, BA should be swarming all over this.

375 pts gets you a 6HP, AV13 12", 4+ invun scoring unit, that happens to out 2 battlecannon shots per turn.

Considering many people pay a 70-100pt tax for a backfield scoring unit, you get a hell of a lot for that 270-300pt upgrade.

Keep its back to a board edge, or invest another 100pts in a bastion or skyshield or something that it can run onto first turn.

Throw mephiston into the mix, and the opponents dedicated anti tank will be overwhelmed.

[knife&fork]

That's still a huge waste of points, if you just want firepower then stronghold has you covered. Mephiston is more worried about poison, grav, force and bladestorm than lascannons. 

 

If you are running the knights as a main then you could spare one to hold the back, but with only one you are likely better off pushing it up midfield and into your opponent. 

[Bartali]

I think they'll be better in midfield too, bigger threat radius with the D-Slapper.They can push up to contest, or pull back to score.

A couple of Battlecannon shots are ok, but it's threat of the D that scares

 

Has it been confirmed that allied Knights are scoring yet ? Only think holding me off from buying one

[Captain Idaho]

 

Why do people keep saying 400pts? Isn't the Errant version 350pts or was that incorrect? That's like saying a Land Raider is 300pts!

I think an Imperial Knight really helps a Blood Angels army. All your high pressure units get a big brother to scare opponents into letting your other units live. So now Blood Angels can concentrate on ripping the hearts out of the foes wih an assault force again.

Imperial Knights are an interesting counter foil for Eldar Tau naughtiness. Fast moving and tough, they present a threat that can't be ignored yet aren't scared of S6 and S7 spam. And what do you shoot; fast moving Walker with a SD weapon or your Drop Pod Iron Clad equivalent and transported assault force?

 

I don't know if Knights fit that well with an Assault BA list. They'd slot right into an AV13 BA mech list though, and I'd sooner run a Knight than a couple of Baals (+80pts).

 

eg

 

Mephiston

2x Furioso Dreads w/ Pods, Frag

1x 5 ASM w/ Flamer; Razorback, TL-HF

1x 5 ASM w/ Flamer; Drop Pod

2x Predator w/ AC,LC

Knight Paladin

 

is 1440pts. Mebbe swop the Preds for ASM in Las/Plas Razors

Yeah you're right. That's me bringing my Space Marines experience in instead of leaving it at the door! I was assuming any assault force was mechanised and consisted of AV13 Dreads!

[RenderDead]

They are scoring actually, or else how would you win obj, if its your main force..............

[Memento Of Prospero]

They are scoring actually, or else how would you win obj, if its your main force..............

He said as allies, not as a primary detachment.

[RenderDead]

 

They are scoring actually, or else how would you win obj, if its your main force..............

He said as allies, not as a primary detachment.

Oh, I can't read it seems.

[Bartali]

 

 

Why do people keep saying 400pts? Isn't the Errant version 350pts or was that incorrect? That's like saying a Land Raider is 300pts!

I think an Imperial Knight really helps a Blood Angels army. All your high pressure units get a big brother to scare opponents into letting your other units live. So now Blood Angels can concentrate on ripping the hearts out of the foes wih an assault force again.

Imperial Knights are an interesting counter foil for Eldar Tau naughtiness. Fast moving and tough, they present a threat that can't be ignored yet aren't scared of S6 and S7 spam. And what do you shoot; fast moving Walker with a SD weapon or your Drop Pod Iron Clad equivalent and transported assault force?

 

I don't know if Knights fit that well with an Assault BA list. They'd slot right into an AV13 BA mech list though, and I'd sooner run a Knight than a couple of Baals (+80pts).

 

eg

 

Mephiston

2x Furioso Dreads w/ Pods, Frag

1x 5 ASM w/ Flamer; Razorback, TL-HF

1x 5 ASM w/ Flamer; Drop Pod

2x Predator w/ AC,LC

Knight Paladin

 

is 1440pts. Mebbe swop the Preds for ASM in Las/Plas Razors

Yeah you're right. That's me bringing my Space Marines experience in instead of leaving it at the door! I was assuming any assault force was mechanised and consisted of AV13 Dreads!

 

I think we're both probably talking about the same thing ;)

 

BA's a weird one, as they're not a very good 'true' assault army. More a short ranged shooting army with a couple of assault elements