Scars by Chris Wraight

[Greyall]

Aye, Lorgar smacks Guilly with Illuminarum in Betrayer. Doesn't do much other than even the blow-count. Then Angron gets involved...

[Hyaenidae]

The cover art would have been epic as hell, too.

[helterskelter]

as long as it was illustrated in the style of charlie the unicorn.

to be fair it was probably a human sized trident if it was a primarchs fork

[Plague Angel]

 

 

There is nothing, and I mean :cussing NOTHING on this forum as tedious as the whinging and circular thread derails that are the Guilliman vs Alpha Legion squad arguments.

 

What on Earth can any of us possibly have to say about that scene any more? We've argued about it at nauseating length for a year now.

 

Some of us think it was reasonable in context. Some think it was ridiculous. It's a minor side plot in one novel. It doesn't ultimately make any difference to the course of the story.

 

LET IT GO. For the love of the Emperor/Dark Pantheon.

 

/end rant

 

You could always, y'know, not read the complaints.

 

 

Why do they need to be repeated in the first place?

 

I saw this thread on the forums and thought "oh no, I need to avoid it for now" because Scars was next on my to-read list. I devoured it and loved it, and rushed to this thread as soon as I got home, excited to finally see what you all have been saying about it without me.

 

Turns out it's one page of "Scars is good" and then pages and pages of whining about Unremembered Empire. Sad day.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

^ agree with Plague Angel.

 

I just finished my second read of Scars. I maintain it's a great book. I do get the impression Brotherhood of the Storm is essential prior reading though...? Which I may have missed out on.

 

To be honest, if there's one criticism I have, it's that the whole ending segment feels rushed. (SPOILERS)

There's supposed to be fleet-wide dissent and internecine combat and yet it really just feels like a bunch of guys fighting on a bridge. I wanted to get a real feeling of the Legion tearing itself apart, with ships going down in flames and the real consequences of a civil war being felt. I also thought the Khan was far, far too lenient to the defeated side - I really thought the ease with which the Terran/lodge legionaries accepted their defeat was immersion-breaking. The Khan's moment of mercy felt out of tone for his character.

[Greyall]

Wait, mercy? I thought they ran away before His Moustacheness could get his hands on them.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Only a few managed to escape. The majority (including most of those of command rank) were captured or turned themselves in. Re-read the last few pages again, the Khan very explicitly gives mercy to most of the legionaries who were following their commanders' orders.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Wait, mercy? I thought they ran away before His Moustacheness could get his hands on them.

The Death Guard did. The insurrectionists who survived were sent on basically a penance crusade alongside Heinricos. These are the White Scars we see in Aximand's little short story, the one where he lost his face. So the "mercy might have been out of tone" but it was necessary to put those characters onto a path that had already concluded.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

 

 

Wait, mercy? I thought they ran away before His Moustacheness could get his hands on them.

The Death Guard did. The insurrectionists who survived were sent on basically a penance crusade alongside Heinricos. These are the White Scars we see in Aximand's little short story, the one where he lost his face. So the "mercy might have been out of tone" but it was necessary to put those characters onto a path that had already concluded.

 

Aha. I did wonder if Wraight had been forced to keep certain characters alive. It doesn't spoil the book, just lessens the impact of having a Legion turn in on itself a bit - plus one would imagine that in a Legion which promotes individualism and independence as much as the Scars, the penalty for insurrection would be shared across ranks, not just suffered by those in command.

 

Off topic, I'd really like Wraight to do a Raven Guard story. Something tells me that just as Aaron Dembski-Bowden gave us a whole new insight into the Word Bearers, Wraight would be the one to take advantage of the heretofore untapped potential of the Ravens.

[Hyaenidae]

I felt it was perfect, considering the cultures that the Scars pull from. We all get the Mongolian aesthetics, but they also draw heavily from multiple other Asiatic cultures, such as Japan and China. The Khan is, for all respects, their 'Emperor'. His word is law, period. He commands, they go. He speaks, they listen. Those who refuse his word, are disgraced. Pariahs. Those who ran are now, for all intents and purposes, Ronin. Those who stayed have basically been given an honourable route, just barely short of Harikiri, and have been offered the chance to regain their honour by falling on the swords of their enemy, instead of their own.

 

In any other Legion, yeah, I'd say the ending was a tad blunt. Amongst the Scars, though, it was stunningly perfect, and truly highlights what makes their Legion unique.

[Chaeron]

Completely agree - I thought it was appropriate given the circumstances, and a bit of a curveball. Appreciate we'd probably normally otherwise want a massacre - but that shame is powerful.

 

Such a good book - would agree with the earlier comment that reading Brotherhood before hand is of substantial benefit.

[Plague Angel]

As much as some of the higher ups of the movement were corrupted or compromised, I think the reason for the "mercy" is because most of the Warmaster-favoring Scars truly believed the Khan would side with Horus. They weren't traitors, just jumping the gun.

[Chaeron]

Another very good point! And, arguably the shame of that, and the almost martial desire to repent carries massively. 

 

I remember reading a good line about how their omission from prior books (bar the aside "Where are the Scars anyway and who have they sided with?!" that permeates most other texts in the series) is embraced in the novel - turned into being about their elusiveness and pragmatism, rather than indecision or neglect, so when placed at the forefront, this all comes to a head.

[Plague Angel]

Oh and also: I wasn't aware of "Brotherhood of the Storm" until I read the thread, so I didn't notice its lack. While I'm sure it adds much, I wouldn't consider it required. I enjoyed the novel just fine without even knowing about it.

[Scribe]

Possibly random ass question.

 

I downloaded Scars from Itunes. I have an older Ipod. My ebook reader wont open it, citing DRM. Anyone know of a reader I can use?

[Plague Angel]

iTunes uses a proprietary format that can only be used by Apple devices. You'll want to buy an epub or mobi version off the Black Library website instead. I've made that mistake before, but if you tell Apple you purchased it by mistake (which is true) they should refund you without any problem.

[Kol Saresk]

Latest edition of iBooks should also read it since you have an iPod.

[Scribe]

Alright, thanks guys. Kol, my ipod cant run the latest version of ibooks, wrong version it complains about. :/

[Scribe]

So, before The Crash, I got this. Read it over a few days. It was amazing, on par with the best in the series.

 

1. The character of the Scars is unique, detracts from nobody, and is fully their own.

2. The interactions and perceptions (and perceptions of perceptions) are well done.

3. Primarch Interaction is solid, indeed some of the best in the series. As one who enjoys it when done well, I loved every scene.

4. The throw away/plot points, are awesome. Wolves + Runes on Axes being one of my favorites.

 

Point of contention: Marines shouldnt speak broken english/gothic, felt a bit too much like real life (I work in IT, internationally).

 

Right up there with Betrayer, ATS, First Heretic.

[Wade Garrett]

Point of contention: Marines shouldnt speak broken english/gothic, felt a bit too much like real life (I work in IT, internationally).

 

"I say, old man. My Butcher's Nails are buzzing quite loudly." said Kargos.

 

"Indeed." Skane replied. "Perhaps a spot of bloodletting, to cool them down?"

 

"Jolly good! Lead on, then!"

 

While I'd put it up there with A Thousand Sons, I'm iffy on things like "All the Primarchs are psykers" and "Fulgrim, I accuse you of homosexuality! Ho Ho Ho Ho!"

 

And I liked Wraight's Mortarion, but I really can't see a character arc that will believably take him from Scars to "What's that, voices in my head? Sacrifice my Deathshroud to raise up a daemon monster? Well, you've talked me into it!" in Vengeful Spirit.

 

Not that the last is Wraight's fault.

[Scribe]

Yes, old, what Victorian? English, sure. I just dont quite buy it when you have marines, with all their abilities for knowledge retention and learning, not picking up the lingo. When looking at all the other cultural queues, I dont know, its a bit much for me.

 

1. Not psykers, but made of the warp, and able to influence it, or attune with it. I think theres a difference. He obviously adds some elemental powers to Russ, and perhaps has some of his own, though I cant actually remember the Khan using any?

 

2. Fulgrim comment wasnt homosexual in nature, at least I didnt jump there. I looked at it as the body modification stuff that we saw way early in the series, the proto-doom siren type ability and Fabius experimentation. Could have been otherwise, but I didnt think it was that.

 

3. Yeah...I dont know how Mortarion makes that leap either, I loved him in the few scenes he was in, and found all the Primarch dialogue quite fitting. I thought their face off DBZ style (lets talk while I power up) was almost as good as Russ/Angron, though am partial to Angron's trolling personally.

[Conn Eremon]

I seem to recall someone saying the editor who posts at The First Expedition confirmed it was a gay joke.

[Plague Angel]

It seemed an obvious gay joke to me.

[Wade Garrett]

Obviously, calling your brother gay is another one of those inscrutable Chogoris traditions that seem like barbaric ignorance to an outsider, but upon closer study are in fact indicative of how subtle, complex, and refined their culture is.

[Scribe]

Alright then thats 2 things I dont like about the book.