Discussion: "New BA Codex" bet thread

[The Yncarne]

In GW's mind there's little need to improve the flame storm cannon if the rules for the dakka version remain good. Only one version of a two option kit needs to have good rules to sell the kit. I don't see rules changes for the flame storm anytime soon. Maybe if the Salamanders get some DLC love or Forgeworld wants to sell their version.

[Plague Angel]

As long as there's a (very nice) Death Company box with such a variety of wargear options, DC will remain a squad you can equip how you like. I highly doubt we'll be going back to random generation from sergeants.

 

I may also be in the minority here, but I really really don't see a problem with DC remaining a Troop choice without some fancy "gate" that makes them a Blood Angels primary only option. Allied formations are part of the game now, and between our Divination and Death Company as a unique option we're worth taking. I don't expect they'll take Death Company away from our ally possibilities, nor do I think it's necessary. Either from Games Workshop's point of view, or ours.

 

To be honest a lot of these expectations feel less like actual things I'd expect and more like wishlists that have become entrenched group think. I'm speaking specifically about Dante here -- as much as we've been saying we want Eternal Warrior and I7 on him since 6th dropped, is there any indication at all that GW views those as necessary on him?

[JamesI]

As long as there's a (very nice) Death Company box with such a variety of wargear options, DC will remain a squad you can equip how you like. I highly doubt we'll be going back to random generation from sergeants.

 

I may also be in the minority here, but I really really don't see a problem with DC remaining a Troop choice without some fancy "gate" that makes them a Blood Angels primary only option. Allied formations are part of the game now, and between our Divination and Death Company as a unique option we're worth taking. I don't expect they'll take Death Company away from our ally possibilities, nor do I think it's necessary. Either from Games Workshop's point of view, or ours.

 

To be honest a lot of these expectations feel less like actual things I'd expect and more like wishlists that have become entrenched group think. I'm speaking specifically about Dante here -- as much as we've been saying we want Eternal Warrior and I7 on him since 6th dropped, is there any indication at all that GW views those as necessary on him?

Eternal warrior I don't consider likely.  But a lot of codexes recently have gotten a character with AP2 at initiative.  Khârn the Betrayer as an example.  I think there is a good chance it happens for us too.

[Plague Angel]

They used the cover art I was hoping for on the Altar of War book.

[GrunTeufel]

They used the cover art I was hoping for on the Altar of War book.

 

They wouldn't have used it anyway. It is a last stand picture. The last time they used a last stand theme was back in 3rd edition. It is cool art though.

[DarkMark]

BA specific termies are the only real kit we're missing, and thus I expect a 'Space Hulky' type focus for the new codex, or at least I hope so.

Assimilating the new vanilla kits and a character resculpt, or 2, is a given.

[Plague Angel]

I can hope they'd take advantage of a focus being on us and come out with a new standard Assault Marine kit that's as good as the new Tac Squad is.

[knife&fork]

I think death company will be reduced to 1A base, with another USR like rampage or counter attack in addition to rage, fnp and FC.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Oooh, this looks like fun... I'll run over and do my 'bets' soon...

 

Although on the cover art topic, I hope you guys get a Raymond Swanland piece too! That way all the power armour Codices I intend to have from this edition will have Swanland covers...

[GrunTeufel]

Oooh, this looks like fun... I'll run over and do my 'bets' soon...

 

Although on the cover art topic, I hope you guys get a Raymond Swanland piece too! That way all the power armour Codices I intend to have from this edition will have Swanland covers...

 

It will probably be him. 6th edition art is more or less his work. I love the dark and gritty look.

[Midnightmare]

I would be sad if DC lost an attack, and looking at Khorne Berzerkers I cam see they might get that treatment. Assault unit with one attack....hmpf! Hope they keep the WS5 too...

[Cronhour]

I think death company will be reduced to 1A base, with another USR like rampage or counter attack in addition to rage, fnp and FC.

I hope not, 10 bolter DC in a pod is proving to be pretty effective. Taking away an attack would make them too expensive.

[Morticon]

More yes/no questions anyone? :D

[knife&fork]

More yes/no questions anyone?

"Death company will be reduced to 1A base but gain a new USR"

[xmercx]

I'll probably end up winning the most wrong, but anyway,

 

1.  BA will have FC as a standard rule.  N May get something that effects some units (like current red thirst) but not every unit.

2.  Dante will get EW.  Y given he is suppose to be one of (if not the) oldest living space marines he should probably have it.

3.  BA will get access to the Storm Talon.  N have been several chances to give this to BA already and they haven't.  I suspect a new flyer kit

4. BA will lose Heroic Intervention as it is now.  N most seem to see us losing this.  However, BA were the first army to get vet assault troops.  Our assault troops, and by extension our vet assault troops, should stand out from the base codex.

5. Dante will give Heroic intervention, as it is now, to all JP troops. N this seems a bit over the top, especially if he keeps the sang guard as troops ability.

6. Sanguinary guard will get an Inv. save. N maybe some kind of reroll but I'm thinking inv. on top of what they have would be a bit much.
7.  BA will get a previously unseen unit/model.  Y See above for new flyer, likely also some kind of termy kit.  Also likely a new generic marine assault kit.

8.  BA will get chapter tactics, with 2 general army rules. Y And they will be descent of angels  and the red thirst.

9. Librarian Dreads may buy mastery levels. Y only the best warriors are suppose to be in dreads, seems like they should at least be mastery level 2

10. Dante will still make SG troops. Y don't see this changing

11. We will keep Descent of Angels as is. Y will be part of the chapter tactics to keep us the "assault" army

12. "Blender Claws" will lose their ability as is. Y I see these getting at least a small tweak

13. Frag Cannons will be available to more units than just the furioso. N would require us getting a new tank/tank upgrade kit, or a heavy weapons marine.  Don't see either happening.

14. We will have a BA psychic table that is random. Y would put us in line with everyone else.

15. We will get access to Artificer armour for characters. Y seems like a given for one of the original chapters.

16. DC generation method will change (again).  Y has changed in every single codex so far hasn't it?

17.  There will be an initiative boost for BA on the charge or nerf to enemies, reminiscent of old FC. N not across the board, maybe in the form of a buff from priest/psyker

18. Fast vehicle will be an upgradeable option. Y they seem to be going back to the more options versions of units where things like vet sgt. are not included in the base price.  Betting we will see costs go down but this included as an upgrade to put them back.

19. BA will be able to dismount and charge in the same turn.  N as much as I would like to see this I just don't think it will happen, not across the board anyway, maybe in the form of an upgrade or ability on a character.

20. BA will be able to dismount when moving between 6~12". Y this seems more likely then the above, maybe if you include them having to make a saving throw, or difficult terrain test when they do it.

21. BA will get a WS bonus on the charge. N not across the board, maybe as a buff/psykic power etc.

22. Mephiston will be reduced in stats. N no, but see #30

23. Will DC Tycho will actually be able to join the DC? Y this is hopefully a no brainier fix.

24. Will Mephiston will be an IC? Y think this plus #23 were oversights in the last codex that are hopefully going to get address.

25. Will Assault Squads still be troops?  Y don't see us getting changed from being the "assault" marine army.  Wish list would be to let the assault squads take bikes instead of jump packs as one of the options.

26. Will Dante strike at his Initiative with AP2?  Y I think either Dante or Astorath is going to be able to strike at initiative.  My be is it is more likely that it will be Dante

27. Will Mephiston be given access to an AP2 melee weapon? N he has always just had a standard force sword afaik and I don't see that changing unless he is getting some new fluff and a new sculpt to reflect the new weapon (which I wouldn't mind)

28. Will Astorath strike at his Initiative with AP2?  N only if Dante doesn't get it

29. Will Sanguinor come down in points? Y under used from what I can tell for the most part.  Expect him to get a tweak to make him more useful and sell better.

30. Will Mephiston go up in points? Y used in a lot of lists, expect him to get tweaked at least a little.

31. Will Red Thirst change? Y expect some change to bring it in line with other chapter tactics, even if its just a rewording.

[gogmagog]

I just want a teeny rumour! Not much to ask for.

[Chaplain Admetus]

More yes/no questions anyone?

Other than the two I posted on the first page (Will we see the return of Moriar the Chosen? and Will we get Corbulo/Sanguinary High Priests as an HQ choice), Will Sanguinary Guard get a stat increase? I ask because as it stands they're a bit flat, being in theory the elite close combat troops of the combat-specialist chapter, and yet are only WS and I of 4, same as a normal assault marine. Upping one (or both) to 5, WS being the more likely, would be a huge and fluffy boost. Heck, even Death Company, the raging madmen, are better at swinging their swords than our elite swordsmen.

[Plague Angel]

While I'd be thrilled, Sanguinary Guard are basically BA's version of C:SM's Honor Guard, who are also WS4.

 

The claim of being the best of the best could be made by anybody in 1st Company, really (with the Sanguard/Honor guard being the best of the best of the best, I know, but still) but Vanguard Vets and Terminators are all WS4 as well, and those are the guys the Sanguard will be drawn from.

[Chaplain Admetus]

This is true, but we already have our own Honour Guard... we have Honour Guard, Vanguard Veterans AND Sanguinary Guard, that's a lot of veteran assault units. It's a change I could see happening just to make them pop a little bit more.

[Rellik]

I know it will never happen but I would love to be able to take 1-3 Baal Preds as a squad, only taking up one fast attack space.  We are suppost to be a fast, hard hitting in your face army but I never have enough fast attack slots.

[knife&fork]

Agree.

Vehicle squad would have made whirlwinds a lot more useful, if we are looking at the decently priced SM version. Putting an inexpensive unit in a single force org slot kinda defeats the purpose.

[Plague Angel]

This just occurred to me:

 

Following the BA codex, we will see a dataslate of some sort (not necessarily a formation) focused on Death Company. Y/N?

[Morticon]

Any more suggestions for questions guys?  Would be cool to get a few more in

[knife&fork]

There's a bunch of them on this very page?

[Tabgoi]

Since they pulled the core rule book from shelves and the online store I guess its a safe be that we will not be getting a new codex before GW puts out a new edition.  Hopefully they fix the fearless rules and morale, other than that I thought this was a pretty decent edition.  Well, you know, other than desperately needing someone there to smack some common sense into people.  Seriously, who would write a rule like Zealot?  Look it up, it just means you have two other special rules.  Why do something like that?  Just type the two other special rules in the data sheet for the units that have them and be done with it.  Organization and flow of the rules were not so good either.  They spent at least 20% more words than were needed to get the rules out there and most of it is needless redundancy.  If I had written a training document like this in the Army I would be doing push ups for months.