1st HH list, 1750pt IF Pride of Legion

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, with a little knowledge I blood Ravened off other lists and Battlescribe, Here is the list I made for a count as IF force.

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Warlord: Praetorian (Artificer armor, Solrite power fist, Serpentia, Refrac, bolter)-142pts

        =Pride of the Legion=

 

HQ: Master of Signals (Artificer armor, Combi-weapon)-105pts

 

Elite: Apothecary-45pts 

 

Troop 1: Sniper Veteran squad ( x10 veterans, x2 heavy bolters with suspension webbing, Sergeant with artificer armor and Voxella, Rhino)-295pts

 

Troop 1: Sniper Veteran squad ( x10 veterans, x2 plasma rifles, Sergeant with artificer armor and Voxella, Rhino)-285pts

 

Troop 3: Sniper Veteran squad (x10 vets, x2 Heavy bolters w/ webbing, Sergeant with Artificer armor, Voxella, Rhino)-295pts

 

Troop 4: Legion Tactical squad (x20 marines, Voxella and sergeant with artificer armor)-270pts

 

H/S 1: Legion Heavy support squad (x5 lascannons)-235pts

 

Fort: aegis line w/ lascannon 70pts

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So I have 50 marines on the ground, most of them with bolters. 

 

my plan is for the Tactical squad, along with preator and Apothecary, sit in the line and hold an objective while Master of Signals camps with the lascannons some place he can see all, hitting tanks with lascannons and such. as of now he is my only anti-tank though. 

 

The Veteran squads drive towards one side as a combined force, getting out to contest an objective and to pour BS5 sniper shots into the enemy. 

 

What do you think?

[infyrana]

Just a few minor notes that I hope might help :)

 

There are Nuncio-Vox's and there are Legion Vexilla's, but no Voxella's - if you haven't got the rulebook yet, it's definitely the Vexilla's you want .  In addition, the Sergeant wouldn't be equipped with either to my understanding, they are only given to "Space Marine"s.

 

Have you considered some Melta-bombs for your Tactical Squad Sergeant?  The Vet Tacticals need to buy them per squad, so they are a bit more expensive.

 

Are you playing against 30k lists or 40k mostly?  Will you encounter Flyers?  If yes to flyers and 40k, might I recommend some Augury Scanners either on your Apothecary and/or Heavy Support squad.  If you put the Apoth with the HS, you may also wish to look for points for Artificer Armour.

[Tiger9gamer]

I would be mainly playing 40k with this, so probably a lot of flyers and deep strikers. and I ment to say vexellia too >.< what do the scanners do? 

 

what would you recommend? 

[Moonstalker]

Well, for starters, you really do need the books as infyrana suggests.  Or maybe just acquire some PDFs of them so you can try before you buy, or something.  Either way, you can't really evaluate any of our suggestions without having the rules in hand.

 

Next point, combiweapon on the Master of Signal.  Why?  Is a single multimelta/plasmagun/flamer shot really worth more than him giving an entire unit +1 BS, or spending his shooting phase calling in his bombardment?  If you're just looking to sink those points somewhere, they're better spent on a refractor field for him.  Or on an Iron Halo for your HQ.

 

Speaking of, your Praetor makes no sense.  You're spending 142 points so he can... camp on an objective?  Really?  I know you're bringing him for the RoW (which I think is a mistake, which will be my next point), but you couldn't stuff him in a Veteran squad (those guys who have 3 attacks base...) and give him a ride to the front lines, where he might actually put some of that wargear to use?

 

Next point, Pride of the Legion for Veteran Squads in Rhinos.  Well, for one, Rhinos aren't terribly good in the current 40k meta, and I think they're death traps in 30k.  In 30k, you see things like Predators with heavy 4 autocannons and Sicarans with heavy 6 twin-linked rending autocannons and Contemptor-Mortis' with twin Kheres or twin-autocannons or... all these things that are spammy high strength shooting.  You'll have the same-or-worse problems against Tau and Eldar, either eating missile pods or serpent shield hits that will just rip your Rhinos up.  So, you're paying points for your Praetor, to unlock a strategy that is inherently flawed, and then you have to pay for Veteran Squads who have an increased cost to account for their generalist abilities (the choice of USRs and a mix of bolter-holders, melee ability, and special/heavy weapons).  You could save a few hundred points by dropping the Praetor (who we have established is not actually adding materially to your army's abilities) and switching the Vet Squads out so you have a total of 40 Tactical Marines, 5 Tactical Support Marines, and 10 Heavy Support Marines.  And then get another Apothecary so each of the tactical squads have one.  You won't have sniper.  But then, you can afford to bring an entire additional squad.

 

As someone else put it and I have repeated to others, 30k is like Craftworld: Space Marine.  The squads are specialists and have to work together.  Tacticals = Dire Avengers, Support Squads = Fire Dragons(ish), Heavy Support = Dark Reapers.  To go against this rule means paying extra and/or producing a list that doesn't work.  Note that paying extra is not guaranteed to produce a working list.

 

All that said, I think you're a bit light on the anti-tank.  I'm normally pretty against Lascannon Heavy Support squads (super-spendy!  45+ points per guy, when they're still only T4 3+).  But with tank hunters through the IF rules, it might be worth it.  You could consider missile launchers if your main opponents are 40k.  Not a lot of AV14 to be seen in that environment, so missile launchers with tank hunters could do the job.  Whichever route you go, just buy some more anti-tank somewhere else.  Meltabombs on sergeants, a Contemptor-Mortis, something.  You probably want the CM anyways (or flakk missiles for a missile-armed heavy support squad), cause you currently have very little anti-air and there are more flyers in 40k than 30k.

[Tiger9gamer]

I know i need the book, just we're strapped for cash right now and I can't make a lot of purchases anyways =( im just making tactics because thats what I love to do. 

 

Master of signals point: I took one because the model I would use for him has one, but I see your point. I could take it off for something else.  more than likely a shield

 

Praetor point: yea, really only taking him so I don't have to spend so much on HH tactical squads, and because I want the veterans in Company Veteran cloaks or something. I didn't put him in a veteran squad because I want the vets to have two special weapons each. If I am going towards the Pride rite, should I just use them in place of the Tactical squads?

 

Rhino rush: I saw them be really effective around my meta, but then again the guy was spamming ultra-marine tactical squads. Basically he used a wall of rhinos to smash into the enemy and unleash tactical hell on them. I have them in rhinos so I can try and get to some objectives or get across the board and get some offense in. if the enemy has more objectives than I do, then i'm boned. so with 20 tacticals it would turn into a straight up gunline (something the IF is known for, but still) 

 

Dev support: okay, I can give you this. the missile launchers would be better against normal 40k I think, and it would help a lot to get anti-air. I could go one anti- air and one lascannons too? 

[infyrana]

Master of Signals:  Yep, definitely you need the book.  He is actually unable to buy Combi-Weapons or Boarding Shields, or even a bolter etc (there are other items listed).

 

Rhino rush may work with 40k lists, or against other 40k lists, but then you could easily play a 40k SM list instead?  When you get ahold of the rule book, might I recommend comparing your UM players list against the equivalent 30k list - price it out yourself and see what you make of it as a direct comparison (remembering that 30k marines don't have ATSKNF).  I think one joy of a 30k list would definitely be to surprise his rhino spam list with your 2x 20-man tacticals that just fired Fury of the Legion.

 

Just remember that the Heavy Support Squads are very pricey things when you compare them to the hardware 30k lists get.

[Tiger9gamer]

So what would be better in comparison? tank hunting units or just a lot of dakka?

 

 

And yea, I need to get one. I have moral qualms about downloading the PDF, and there is pretty much no one at my store who would want to play me unless I shell out 1,000$ on an army that I have no experience with 

[infyrana]

The thing is, there are 38 different units from HQ, through tacticals, to transport and heavies.  This excludes anything in the second book, any legion specific units, or any Mechanicum stuff.  Of those 38 units, there are several which include different models within that squad like 'medusa/basilisk/whirlwind' and 'proteus/phobos/achillies'.

 

The choices are high, it is down to your own ideas and restrictions - the idea of an all marine army sounds thematic, but perhaps a little impractical at present.  Kitwulfen has given some good all round advice, far better than I can, and makes some suggestions.

 

He has also done a lot of past comparisons already of some of the standout units (heavies, contemptors, flyer, sicaran's, predators etc).  Might be worth using the search function or simply browsing all of his threads one evening or two.  Unfortunately Book 3 with the IF specific legion rules is not currently out.  So any comparison of units to IF rules is probably not available and would obviously not be applicable (considering IF Heavies are said to get Tank Hunting).  Any current information would not include IF specific rules and therefore be biased to generic legion entries instead of IF specific rites or units.

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, thanks. I'll think about it more. I do have to borrow a book or just dig into my pockets and buy one before I start anything, so thanks. I might not even do IF when I think about it more. I just don't know. I'll look through the threads for more advice

[Moonstalker]

Well, as books go, they're coming out with a unified army list to go alongside the collectors edition.  It's unclear whether or not it will be available separately, but it would be cheaper than having to buy all three books to get the rules if you are able to buy it on its own.  Any way you go about it, you can't build an army without first getting cozy with the rules.  You really ought to playtest some, if at all possible, before you commit to the purchase of any units.  Even if it means bribing one of the guys at your club with lunch so he'll do a few rounds against an army of 25mm paper rounds and tank-shaped paper boxes.

 

I didn't even realize that the MoS can't take a combi-weapon.  I knew his gear was limited, but I just thought he shouldn't.

[Terimus]

I will say, if you're going with Pride of the Legion, you gotta throw some Terminators in there. I've played with an all terminators Night Lord's list and it is a devastating force. Not saying you have to go all termies, but if you can get them as troops, totally jump on that opportunity