Raven Guard fluff from Extermination

[Kriegsmacht]

Yeah I read it again and you're right. I must have skimmed the part about the terrans being best suited for it. Truthfully I was kinda more interested in the idea of him purging the Terrans since they didn't suit his ideals or such.

[Conn Eremon]

It is an interesting concept, and a purge did technically happen. It just wasn't intentional.

 

Which makes it more interesting to me. It means Horus' own hunger for glory ended up costing him an entire Legion to his cause. The Raven Guard stood against the Warmaster on Isstvan rather than at his side because of his own vainglorious mistake.

[Kriegsmacht]

Didn't Horus admit he wanted Corax on his side?

 

I know he said he wished Gulliman was with him in the short audio Warmaster but I thought I read somewhere that he wanted Corax as well instead of Alpharius.

[Conn Eremon]

I believe so. Instead of Alpharius or Curze, maybe.

 

Makes it doubly delicious that it's his own damn fault.

[Nazguire]

Horus would have had any Legion that wanted to come over for his rebellion. Corax would have tipped the scales in my mind if he had become a traitor too. Corax is definitely one of the better Primarchs in a tactical sense; he really changes the entire Legion by the sound of it and has the entire Legion and it's resources working to his tune.

[Kol Saresk]

Wow so a loyalist did a little purging of his own. That's neat.

 

The part about Corax defeating Guilliman...what was that about? Is that in a book somewhere?

That's because he only has the one on Istvaan V.......

[KBA]

The fact that Corax leads those he chose for the mission in the frontal assault reinforced it wasn't an intentional purge for me.

[Conn Eremon]

To clear any doubt, here is the direct quote on pg 135.

 

"Knowing that their particular demeanour would carry them forward, Corax assigned many of his Terran-dominated companies to the van, in particular those whose captains appeared the most willing to play their part in the Warmaster's plans."

 

The appointment of Terrans to the van was deliberate, but not with the intention of a purge. Corax had relented to the Warmaster's authority, and his selection of Legionaries was based upon those he felt most appropriate for such a task and who were led by those most willing to take part.

[Wade Garrett]

Or that's what the Loyalist historians writing after the Heresy put down as fact, anyway.

 

The same ones who recorded that Lorgar somehow hid his Emperor worship when Big E landed on Colchis.

 

Which, well................

 

Random Colchisian beholding the Emperor:

"My G...."

 

Lorgar: (quickly seizing said citizen in a breath stealing fraternal embrace)

"And a GOOD DAY to you too, citizen!"

 

The Emperor:

"My son, is something wrong?"

 

Lorgar:

"Nothing, nothing God-DAD! I said Dad. Dad. Is what I said."

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

as a long time RG fan, I honestly hoped and enjoy the idea the Corax willingly purged the pro-Horus elements of his Legion on purpose.

 

it's a splendid middle finger to the "Warmaster", and a great example of Corax's ruthlessness.

 

WLK

[Conn Eremon]

@Wade: Or not. :)

[Wade Garrett]

Well, that's always an option too.

 

For the record, if I had to ascribe a motivation to it....

 

"So, you jerks that remind me of those slavers I hate so much think Horus is so awesome? Then YOU can lead this head on charge he's demanding."

 

And I'm not sure I like the idea that out of Horus, Perturabo, Russ, and Corax, the Raven Lord was the only one who thought a plan besides "FORWARD! TO GLORIOUS VICTORY" was a good idea.

[Conn Eremon]

Eh. It fits with Horus, because he would suffocate to death if there wasn't enough glory in the air.

 

To me, Perturabo was just acting according to hid bitter self. Quit yer :cuss ing, bird. It ain't nothing I don't go through in every battle ever.

 

And Russ was understanding, but not quite on Corax's side, probably because he needs a hit of glory himself quite often. Take what you got going for you and swallow it down. Use that leaden lump in the pit of your stomach and follow orders, Odinssecretary.

[KBA]

as a long time RG fan, I honestly hoped and enjoy the idea the Corax willingly purged the pro-Horus elements of his Legion on purpose.

 

it's a splendid middle finger to the "Warmaster", and a great example of Corax's ruthlessness.

 

WLK

 

If those are his intentions, would he throw a fit in the first place about losing his men in a needless meat grinder? Something tells me he'd be a little more shrewd, and a little more coy if that were the case. At the end of the day, he lost XIX men --lodge members unbeknownst to him-- and mourned them as such.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@KBA: I'll start by saying I've only read what's been posted here. My copy is arriving till May.

 

That said, as one of 6 kids, I can think of many times when I objected very strenuously to something planned by a sibling, and when I gave in, did the required task in a manner that suited me best. I'd would make or find whatever advantage I could in such a role.

 

now my family is not superhuman demi-gods, but we got a few years of good sibling rivalry.

 

From the selected postings so far, maybe he was unsure of how many of those XIX were HIS men. He had come after the creation of the Legion, and possibly resented to strong ties his Legion had to Horus. This was his way of purging those elements.

 

All speculation of course.

 

WLK

[KBA]

The way it's written, Corax's detractors look back on the event and go 'Hmmm pretty convenient how that went down...' but it goes on to say Corax had a heavy heart for the whole affair. The sticking point has to be that he leads the charge himself in that suicide mission. I suppose you'll draw further conclusions in May :)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I certainly cant wait to see the writing for myself...the AWESOME RULES FOR CORAX ARE JUST A BONUS

 

*ahem* my fanboy came out for a moment.

 

I can see Corax of course having a heavy heart on the matter. Regardless of where the men's loyalty lay, they are his genetic sons and loyal warriors of the Emperor. If he didn't care at tall then i'd be worried.

I can also see Corax leading them himself, as I doubt he would order his men into any situation he wasn't prepared to enter himself.

 

WLK

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

A part of me thinks that Corax choose the ones to charge the gate for more reasons then he is given credit for.  What if he knew that the Terrans who he choose would fight even harder knowing their orders came down from Horus.  Perhaps that was the difference between victory and defeat.  Perhaps they were the stronger part of his legion and their loss was a big blow.  Why would he remove himself from Horus's command if he was OK with the outcome of the engagement?  I also think its hard to see how Corax would not have known about the Lodges.  Seems like there would have been plenty of time to ghost around his own fleet and sniff out any secret meetings.  Even if he knew about them i think he might have felt that he could win them over in time.  To me he made Lemonade out of a basket of yellow fruit.  It might suck to loose the strongest part of your fighting force, but at least it is the part you know, you would have to work the hardest to keep in line.

[Valtonis]

Wow so a loyalist did a little purging of his own. That's neat.

 

The part about Corax defeating Guilliman...what was that about? Is that in a book somewhere?

 

war gaming

[TalonZahn]

Very interesting stuff in there.

 

Although Ash Blind kind of sounds like Red Thirst to me.

[SFH]

Well, that's always an option too.

For the record, if I had to ascribe a motivation to it....

"So, you jerks that remind me of those slavers I hate so much think Horus is so awesome? Then YOU can lead this head on charge he's demanding."

And I'm not sure I like the idea that out of Horus, Perturabo, Russ, and Corax, the Raven Lord was the only one who thought a plan besides "FORWARD! TO GLORIOUS VICTORY" was a good idea.

Any story that has the Wolf-King be the calming influence is going to end badly.

[Marshal Rohr]

Just because Corax fought in the vanguard with his men doesn't mean he didn't see the value in them all dying. The guy does personally shoot all his mutant abominations in the face.

[Kol Saresk]

Just because Corax fought in the vanguard with his men doesn't mean he didn't see the value in them all dying. The guy does personally shoot all his mutant abominations in the face.

After he runs them through the meatgrinder of the Heresy.

[Valtonis]

Very interesting stuff in there.

 

Although Ash Blind kind of sounds like Red Thirst to me.

 

yeah, that was what it reminded me of as well

just a better version of it, i guess

as in they can come back from it and they are just more suicidal and not totally out of control

[KBA]

Just because Corax fought in the vanguard with his men doesn't mean he didn't see the value in them all dying. The guy does personally shoot all his mutant abominations in the face.

...And is so wracked with guilt he flies off into the Eye of Terror after locking himself in his bedroom for a year

My point here: Having Corax intentionally purge and kill off thousands of non-mutant XIX legionaries completely undermines the 'nevermore' plot at the end of the heresy: it would have happened much sooner before the heresy if this were the case. FW seems to know this and worded things appropriately enough. I came off reading the fluff blurb in the book as a situation where Corax was cornered into a catch-22, took the men who were down with Horus' way of doing things to ensure the day would be won, and set them free -- even if in death -- from the chains Horus had shackled them with for decades before Corax. It ended up being a nice coincidence that they were likely lodge members unbeknownst to him.