Nehekhare Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Siege breakers have no equip restrictions. phosphex shells are not worth it: you get a bit of movement hindrance, but miss out on S10 (instant death, decent chance to penetrate AV14). The hammer of Olympia RoW isn't really great either. rapid fire before assault is a two-edged sword (kill the first row and fail assault), you sacrifice your extra attack and can't use fury of the legion. with artillery squadrons, 3 HS usually suffice, but a praetor and another compulsory troops choice are quite an investment. it allows mechanicum allies, though. Taking Perturabo on the other hand, is absolutely recommended. best primarch save horus so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydriatus Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Siege Breakers are uipgrades on Centurions though, and if a Preator can't take two melee weapons (becuase he can only exchange his gun for another gun), pretty sure Centurion can't either...but will check my book after work. And thanks for the advice regarding the RoW! Personally I don't think I'll use it much either myself. Love my fortifications too much (and if you don't have Stronghold Assault as your third book when playing Iron Warriors you're doing it wrong IMO ^_^) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yes they can have two melee weapons. From Betrayal FAQ: "Q: Can the Legion Praetor/Legion Centurion exchange both their chainsword/combat blade for one of the options listed and also their bolt pistol for another option, and can these be different options? A: Yes to both questions, so long as the cost for both options is paid and this is reflected on the model" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephrael Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I would love to see you get started on this project sooner rather than later. I'm seriously considering sending you some Cataphractii to jump start the process. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 can't take two melee weapons (becuase he can only exchange his gun for another gun) Q: Can the Legion Praetor/Legion Centurion exchange both their chainsword/combat blade for one of the options listed and also their bolt pistol for another option, and can these be different options? A: Yes to both questions, so long as the cost for both options is paid and this is reflected on the model" you're both right actually. praetors/Centurions may exchange their pistol for a 2nd melee weapon, but they don't have a pistol when clad in Terminator armor (just a combi-bolter, which may be exchanged for guns or together with your PW for a pair of LC)! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydriatus Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Aaah ok, thanks :) So no running around with chainfist/lightning claw + servo arm for my warsmith :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Alright so taking into account some of what you've said Nehekhare, what about this list? HQ: • Centurion Master of Signal - Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Power Weapon - 120pts ELITES: • Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad - 10x Terminators, Siege Master w/Chainfist - 550pts • Legion Apothecarion Detachment - 2x Apothecaries w/Artificer Armor & Power Swords - 130pts TROOPS: • Legion Tactical Squad - 20x Marines, Nuncio Vox, Legion Vexila, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, Powerfist - 295pts • Legion Tactical Squad - 20x Marines, Nuncio Vox, Legion Vexila, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, Powerfist - 295pts HEAVY SUPPORT: • Iron Havocs - 10x Marines, 10x Missile Launchers - 360pts TOTAL: 1750 So it has now changed to an all foot-slogging force, which is kind of cool, especially since it's throwing out 30 krak missiles a turn (my God I love 30k!) however I could drop 5 terminators from the Tyrant squad and add in some armor and bump the list to 1850. I changed the HQ to a Master of Signal because it feels fitting to have him oversee the devastation, he'll hang out with the Havocs and buff their BS/keep them safe from deep strikers. What do you legion vets think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 You may consider breaking the terminator squad into 2 units of 5 to let the other squad avenge it's buddies on the off chance of some pie plate shenigans. And they can shoot more units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm a fluff guy over gameplay, but I'd say that there is not enough artillery in your list. ...never enough artillery... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm a fluff guy over gameplay, but I'd say that there is not enough artillery in your list. ...never enough artillery... Haha, very well Senior Warsmith, I can drop 5 Tyrant Siege Terminators and that'll put me at 1500 points, then I can add up to 350pts of artillery to bring me to 1850. Alternatively I can drop the Tyrant Siege Terminators all together and that'll free up 300 points for arty at the 1500 points level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3661906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 So I just dice-hammered a Moritat with dual plasma pistols on my kitchen table and holy crap... definitely taking on of those in my army. What about this: HQ: • Centurion Master of Signal - Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs - 125pts • Centurion Moritat - Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, 2x Plasma Pistols, Jump Pack - 155pts ELITES: • Legion Apothecarion Detachment - 2x Apothecaries w/Artificer Armor & Power Swords - 130pts • Rapier Weapons Battery - 3x Laser Destroyers - 165pts TROOPS: • Legion Tactical Squad - 15x Marines, Nuncio Vox, Legion Vexila, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, Powerfist - 245pts • Legion Tactical Squad - 15x Marines, Nuncio Vox, Legion Vexila, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, Powerfist - 245ptsHEAVY: • Iron Havoc Squad - 10x Marines, 10x Missile Launchers - 360pts • Whirlwind Scorpius - 115pts • Legion Artillery Battery: - Legion Medusa - 155pts - Legion Medusa - 155pts TOTAL: 1850pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydriatus Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 That seems quite mean indeed! Can't find anything to fault with this list :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Fluff makes baby taron happy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I would be a little cautious of the points value only in that I heard that in the Crusade List 2.0 has both the MoS and moritat costed an extra 10 points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 I would be a little cautious of the points value only in that I heard that in the Crusade List 2.0 has both the MoS and moritat costed an extra 10 points So they are 10 points more or is that a typo? I was using the points values in Betrayal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hm, list 1 needs artillery, list 2 needs tyrants. plasma moritat is OP, but a one trick pony and not really characterful for IW. I'd vote for a synthesis of both lists : HQ: • Centurion Siege Breaker - Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Powerfist [run with Tyrants for Tank hunter cyclones] ELITES: • Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad - 5x Terminators, Siege Master w/Chainfist • Legion Apothecarion Detachment - 2x Apothecaries w/Artificer Armor & Power Swords TROOPS: • Legion Tactical Squad - 19x Marines, Nuncio Vox, Legion Vexila, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, Powerfist • Legion Tactical Squad - 19x Marines, Nuncio Vox, Legion Vexila, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, Powerfist HEAVY SUPPORT: • Iron Havocs - 10x Marines, 10x Missile Launchers, Augury Array • Whirlwind Scorpius • Legion Artillery Battery: - Legion Medusa TOTAL: 1750 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraCaptain Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 You could save money and make that list better. Remove 3x iron havocs for 90 pts, add a bastion with ammonution dump for, i think 90pt. You now have BS5 Iron Havocs who rerolls 1's to hit. Meaning 1/36 will miss. Against armour 12 flyer/vehicle, each shot has a 73% chance to cause either glancing or penetrating hits. Should be roughly the same punch but now in a bastion with 4 heavy bolters aswell ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 You could save money and make that list better. Remove 3x iron havocs for 90 pts, add a bastion with ammonution dump for, i think 90pt. You now have BS5 Iron Havocs who rerolls 1's to hit. Meaning 1/36 will miss. Against armour 12 flyer/vehicle, each shot has a 73% chance to cause either glancing or penetrating hits. Should be roughly the same punch but now in a bastion with 4 heavy bolters aswell Oh man that's nasty lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I hadn't thought of the Bastion idea. Fluffy AND effective. It would be cool to see it modeled like it was fired from space too. Orbitally deployed fortifications. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraCaptain Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 If you take Kyr Vahlen he also provide the 1's to reroll, but then without a bastion. The protection is however still wanted, and you could buy a bastion with reserve relay instead? The guad autocannon is probably unneeded with iron havocs.. Kyr Vahlen also make the bastion armour 15.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3662851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 If you take Kyr Vahlen he also provide the 1's to reroll, but then without a bastion. The protection is however still wanted, and you could buy a bastion with reserve relay instead? The guad autocannon is probably unneeded with iron havocs.. Kyr Vahlen also make the bastion armour 15.. I'll probably stay away form named characters (old habits) but where can I find the cost for a bastion and all that, is it in one of the rulebooks? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3664088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The bastion has the most updated rules in Stronghold Assault - also has other fancy things like a petroleum refinery (inc burny-death)... You could run Khyr Valen but as your own Grand Companies' equivalent - a Warsmith of equal prowess? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3664175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Dang it, I just can't fit everything I want in a lower-point list. I also don't want to shell out over $1,000 making an Iron Warriors force a reality. Here is a 1500 point list I came up with that could maybe represent a forward siege assault element. Basically these guys are the infantry push that would be covered by artillery fire from another formation like the Stor-Bezashk. HQ: • Siege Breaker Centurion – Cataphractii Armor, Thunder Hammer – 140pts ELITES: • Apothecarion Detachment – 2x Apothecaries w/Artificer Armor – 110pts • Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad – 5x Terminators – 295pts • Rapier Weapons Battery – 2x Quad Mortar Carriages – 120pts TROOPS: • Legion Tactical Squad – 15x Marines, Vexila, Nuncio Vox, Sergeant w/Artificer Amor & Powerfist – 245pts • Legion Tactical Squad – 15x Marines, Vexila, Nuncio Vox, Sergeant w/Artificer Amor & Powerfist – 245pts HEAVY: • Iron Havoc Squad – 8x Marines, 4x Missile Launchers, 4x Lascannons, Augury Scanner – 345pts TOTAL: 1500 Edit: Alternatively I could drop in 3x Whirlwind Scorpius Tanks instead of the Iron Havocs, but again that'll be pricey lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3664355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Hmmmmm heinrich brother you'll build bigger and bigger and then you'll be addicted Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3664363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Ahhh Iron Warriors. Always had a soft spot, no that sounds wrong, a hard spot, hmmm that sounds wrong for different reasons. Lets just say I like the Iron Warriors. Get some resin and get painting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289976-iron-within/page/2/#findComment-3664744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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