[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[coloroutofspace]

The problem I have with Darkwings is that once you jink, you don't get the benefit of the Blind missiles :/

 

It's a bit of an unwieldy bird to fly to be honest, because on the turn it arrives, its debuff won't benefit the unit that it is transporting (and you really want to it to transport slow moving units like Terminators), because it won't be able to assault from Reserves. So, either you're using it to buff another unit, either you pace yourself and wait a turn.

 

The saving grace is that it's got awesome deployment options, where you could choose the best insertion route to benefit from Stealth without having to Jink while getting close to your preferred target. And now you've got a pretty decent ship, but still a Turn 3 charge at the earliest.

 

So, I guess its best use is for a precision strike rather than just delivering a nasty beatstick...

Unfortunately, that's what I've seen when other people tried to use it. It seems to me it's (both regular Storm Eagle and the Darkwing) an expensive delivery system for either a larger Tac squad or terminators, but apart from that, it's got some anti-tank potential, but that's not guaranteed. 

[GreyCrow]

Yeah...

 

I guess the way to play it is :

1) The board is clustered enough that with your deployment options (Deep Strike/Outflank/Regular Reserves), you're going to be able to fly on the board and get a nice 4+ (down to 3 cover save with Stealth) without Jinking.

2) Make sure that your army including the Darkwing and its content (in the case of a Deep Strike deployment, but that's super risky) can kill up any AA to avoid jinking for the next turn.

[SkimaskMohawk]

As a whole the storm eagle is kind of weird. Its only really useful when you can deliver a really good threat to the enemy, while making sure that you survive all the incoming fire to not fry the passengers. A terminator with primarch deathball is usually what people use, though you could do jump pack people too, but this is offset by the enormous cost of the unit and just isn't viable in 2000 as its pretty much half your army right there. Also the unit has to be a threat to most things, so powerfists or primarchs are pretty important as 500+pts of only like s5 ap 2 and the StEagle's guns really are meh. Its better used in legions who like bringing deathstar pressure in with no way to react to it like SoH, WE or the like. I certainly don't think a death ball of termis when I think of RG playstyle and there's better ways to get their combi weapons

[GreyCrow]

Well, I don't think it's Deathstar material to be honest. At best I'd transport a 5 men unit of Terminators geared to kill Infantry deep into the enemy deployment zone to kill off stuff holding an objective or contesting it, while the bulk of the force fights for the midfield.

 

A bit like Infiltrating Lernaean Terminators in a Land Raider if such comparison is valid :)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Why? Both of those are just so many points for killing infantry when infantry removal is super easy to come by in 30k. Just take a scorpius and save 400 points

Edited September 26, 2015 by SkimaskMohawk

[Caillum]

Scorpii are amazing, but you'd know the pain of a single Heavy Support slot SkimaskMohawk, from both the VIII & XIX. Would you take a Scorpius in a Decapitation Strike or Terror Assault list?

 

I often try to capitalise on squadrons of vehicles, or a Spartan, so you get more out of the slot. 3 magna-melta Predators looks tasty!

[SkimaskMohawk]

In my terror assault list I usually have a sicaran as I'm a bit short on AT so it fulfills the role nicely, being able to transition between anti infantry and last case AA. However, my RG list has more than enough AT so the scorpius fits really nicely there with its ability to overwhelm the enemy turn one and to turn target saturation up. That being said, a Fire Raptor would probably be the best for a Decapitation Strike list as it gives you a lot of control in terms of medium vehicles and infantry.  

 

As for spartans, if I want to use mine for my VIIIth I'll have it as a dedicated slot for my terminators and keep the sicaran in.

 

One thing that I want to make clear is that this is my opinion for 2k games, where things like the sicaran, deredeo, scorpius and laser vindicator shine. In bigger games, you'd definitely want to start getting preds, a fire raptor, land raider squads or artillery. The only problem with the squadrons is they all  have to shoot the same target, not sure if POTMS allows for true split fire or not though 

[defl0]

 

 

@defl0 I was thinking of the dreadclaw where it tells you how it works, normal hover mode stuff gets a choice. Storm eagle with axe terminators is still really weird though, just take a caestus and give them fists and they'll be infinitely more scary

 

Yeah, I ran 8 termies in a caestus at adepticon and went undefeated. It works. It's tough. Not sure it's worth 100 extra points, but 's a sick ass looking model :)

 

 

Very good points defl0 !

 

I have two topics I'd love to get your insight on 

 

1) Recon Squads. They're talked about in the Raven Guard fluff section and look like mini Mor Deythans. Any use for them ? I feel that they might be an annoying hidden gem to them...

 

2) Has anyone made a force with no Pods (no decapitating strike), with a high content of Bikes/Jetbikes/Terminators/Assault Marines (mainly to get the second half of the Legiones rule ?).

I feel that Outrider squads with TLPG as well as maximum amount of CC weapons could be a very nice support due to Furious Charge. The army would kind of lose the flavour of Infiltrating, but at least it would have the Jump and assault part right !

 

1) Recon squads have a unique role, but's it's limited. 5 Recon marines are the cheapest 5 Melta bombs you can buy. So think of them as mines or area denial. They are a cheap, effective way of delaying and destroying transports or funneling vehicle movement. Especially interesting if fielded as such with corax where you are getting a 6" run and acute senses.  

 

They are also a cheap way to get a vox. 

 

It's also over looked but it's a cheap way to get another storm eagle if you wanted to go air cav at higher point levels. 

 

2) If you want to run an army like that I would go angel's wrath with 20 assault marines with meltas and a couple power weapons and a chaplain with a jump pack to make them fearless. Run you praetor on a jetbike with a jet bike squad or jet bike command squad. Termies  can go is a storm eagle or cestus. Speeder can be solid heavy weapon support or throw away meltacides. Plus you can do some cool things with an anvilis drop pod as well. 

 

Standard bikes aren't allowed in this build. But bikes don't really work in almost any build for RG. Although you can go nuts with forge father with rad grenades and nasty praetor, but's kind of a bizarre build. 

 

Finally, Darkwings... Well, these guys and Corax got hit with the nerf bat when they changed how blind worked... They are a pure transport to deliver troops to assault. Not being able to take a melta on the nose drives me batty! But the killing power is secondary anyway. Fliers in general come into their own at higher point costs and they are just better if you take a ton of them with reserve manipulation units and some tank hunting to kill anti air units. You can completely neuter lists designed to out grind you by basically hiding your points for most of the game and then overloading area with a ton of killy units in the mid to end game. At higher point levels you can go even more extreme with combining it with point denial units like corax or outflankers. 

[defl0]

It's been a long time since I fielded a hvy support choice for RG to be completely honest. If I did it would probably be a fire raptor though. And when i field one of my fire raptors I usually field 3 :p 

[SkimaskMohawk]

idk, if you want the StEagle to do anything other than a transport ofr 200 points it gets to like 260ish. Easy 40 points for the caestus

[coloroutofspace]

So I understand, that it comes down to something like this: Caestus over Storm Eagle to deliver heavy-hitters, Storm Eagle with Recons for objective grabbing and potentially tank hunting with meltabombs?

 

Edit: By the way, just checked and a Dreadclaw is a DT for Terminators, and it's pretty cheap for an assault flyer that can Jink... What was the name of the elite Terminators unit in Raven Guard fluff?

Edited September 26, 2015 by coloroutofspace

[Caillum]

The Deliverers. However, Corax rarely used them - they were generally more aggressive and favoured by Horus in the early days, so only some were kept nearby to be unleashed in dire circumstances.

[defl0]

@color out of space.

 

It depends on points and what you are trying to do.

 

The Caestus is great for termies and it can Carry some primarchs. The ram function is really quite strong if used cleverly.

 

Storm eagles, I often use as gun boats with twin Las and melta aND just put my mandatory troops isnide for late game objective grabbing. But really its the 20 man capacity which is strong. 20 assaulting melta bomb vets can be scary.

 

Your RECON Tactic is solid but you are investing in ANOTHER troop. I normally wouldn't have the extra points.

 

All this said, the storm eagle is complicated to fit in a list but 2 at 2000 pts will usually last all game and rule the sky if supported by AA killers.

[coloroutofspace]

The Deliverers. However, Corax rarely used them - they were generally more aggressive and favoured by Horus in the early days, so only some were kept nearby to be unleashed in dire circumstances.

Wonder what happened to them after Istvaan... I kinda like the idea of the Imerium right after the Heresy, with the second foundings taking place, the original, but crippled legions struggling to maintain some form of order and trying to reclaim the worlds lost to the Archenemy with unprecedented ferocity. That's where the Deliverers would come in handy.

 

@color out of space.

 

Your RECON Tactic is solid but you are investing in ANOTHER troop. I normally wouldn't have the extra points.

 

All this said, the storm eagle is complicated to fit in a list but 2 at 2000 pts will usually last all game and rule the sky if supported by AA killers.

I guess that'd fit in an Angels Wrath list, which would still be fluffy for RG. Storm Eagles, Lightnings and Caestuses/Fire Raptors plus null deployment?

[GreyCrow]

@colour : Some could speculate that most of the Deliverers were sent with Arkhas Fal on their Crusade (as many being Terran Born Veterans) far from the rest of the Legion to eventually become the Carcharodons.

 

___

 

To everyone : good news ! :D I should have my first Heresy Game sometimes next month, with a friend lending me 2k points of SoH in a 2v2 battle at 5000 points :D Super excited and even though I probably won't do the SoH, it's a cool place to start :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

I just hope you guys play with all the HH rules; a few people in my area have had their "first game of 30k" and played with all the 7ed rules. In reality they just tried the legion list and didn't actually play 30k

[GreyCrow]

I just hope you guys play with all the HH rules; a few people in my area have had their "first game of 30k" and played with all the 7ed rules. In reality they just tried the legion list and didn't actually play 30k

 

Oh yeah, don't worry about that, these guys are really 30k players :D

[Count Douclar]

Been lurking on this threat for a while, while I try and decide between Raven Guard or Alpha legion (apparently it is a common dilemma) and their are some great tactics posted here. But has anyone tried combining a siege breaker and Mor Dythan squad in a rhino?

 

Reading the rules, it can be away to get the most out of missiles for the Dythans and allow the Siege breaker to use his phosphex bomb in turn 1 or 2. Basically the tactic would be have atleast 6 Mor Dythans with 2 missile launchers (the others with combi-weapons of choice) and a siege breaker with a phosphex bomb, combi-melta and other equipment, and give them a rhino. With infiltrate, scout and first turn deployment (move 6", deploy 6"), they should be close enough for the phosphex bomb to be in range, as well as any combi-flamers. Siege breaker gives the missiles tank hunter (as they are heavy weapons) which can be used to open transports (barring a Spartan). 

 

Also, is there any viable tactics to prevent retaliation from after a first turn alpha strike, such as pinning infantry squads and such? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Correct me of I'm wrong (as I never use them) but I thought the siege breakers shared tank hunter only works on heavy weapons, similar to the augery scanner having limitations. If this is the case then you wouldn't get much out of him as the suspensors turn heavy weapons into assault. As for denying alpha strike, Infiltrate counters infiltrate, while reserves counter deepstrike and infiltrate so RG do it pretty well. It's all about deployment.

[Slips]

No, Siege Breakers, as I've read it confers Tank Hunters to weapons with the Heavy Type in squads he joins.

 

As for Suspensor Webs, the way Ive read the wording is that its an on/off thing. You either fire the gun normally at Heavy X or cut the range in half and fire at Assault X and vice versa.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys !

 

I'd love to start back the discussion regarding the Recon Squads if you don't mind. What to do with them ? With their gear options ? Basing their roles from their potential compared to what we'd like them to do.

 

So, they're pretty much Power Armoured Scouts in the Raven Guard's Legion. Any good way to run them as a disruption unit ? Their damage is going to be pretty weak, but maybe they can be used as a distraction ?

What weapons with them ? Snipers aren't super useful and purely CC+BP seems very limiting. Shotguns maybe ? Regular Boltguns ?

 

Meltabombs ? Scouting Nuncio-Vox to secure Drop Pods ? They do seem like a pretty interesting force multiplier that will hold objectives over a simple damaging unit. Cameleoline seems like a nasty bargain to use the Recon squad to get Legion Dreadnought Drop Pods in, getting a +3 to their cover save as long as the shots targeting them pass through the Legion Dreadnought Drop Pods.

 

What do you guys think about them ? It is true, however, that a Legion Tactical Squad could fit the same role with a Vigilator (to get Scout and ensure you can drop

Edited October 1, 2015 by GreyCrow

[SkimaskMohawk]

They're pretty much just a cheap melta bombs delivery system. They really don't do anything else special as every other infantry model gets to infiltrate and outflank, so their premium is useless. If you give them snipers then they're the same cost as mor deythan. No on would us them as deepstrike insurance as maun does it so much better

[defl0]

The only thing special AND useful is that they are the cheapest 5 melta bombs around. Shotguns vs bolters? Who cares, you are not really going to do much with shooting with them.

 

They are infiltrating objective campers that can threaten vehicles in hth. They are good at that. Keep them cheap and don't stretch them into different roles. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well honestly, a squad of despoilers fits that description too, the only difference being the sicaran and av 14 vehicles get the pass. I'd take 5 more guys for 25 more points that fill my compulsory slot.

[stang]

Hi guys.

I'm currently stuck between the unreleased White Scars and Raven Guard.
I like the RG because of their infiltrating guerrilla play-style and the fact that they aren't really represented much (why is that you think?)

I've read Nusquam's and Pete's blogs along with the thread here. Really helpful material. 

The stuff I'm liking are -

1. ​Chaplain led infiltrating 20 CCW tacticals.
2. Duel CCW, Plasma Blaster dred in a Kharybdis.
3. The must-take staple 5 Mor Deythans in a Rhino.
4. Thudd Rapiers. 

I'm looking at a 1500 point list to begin and was wondering if those work. Especially in the context of 30k IH, Necrons and KDK. 

 

Hope you guys can chime in!