[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[stang]

 

Maun good for an HQ? or should I be looking for cheaper alternatives?

 

Plus that's a lot of points in HQ to take both... I would probably pick a single HQ and build my list around him at 1500 pts. 

 

Maun vs. praevin vs. chaplian vs. libby vs. preator builds look very different from one another. 

 

What is your suggestion Defl0 (and others)?

 

To cap off a 1500 Alpha strike list, with a base of 960 consisting of - 

• 2x10 tacs at 300
• 3x5 Mor Deythan at 480
• 3 Quad Rapiers at 180

Thank you for all the attention sirs.

Deeply appreciated. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Sicaran or deredeo, 2 javelins for sure with multimelta and Hunter killers, maun as he's dirt cheap and you don't have a large squad to buff with a chaplain

[defl0]

I really like my mor deythan in rhinos or in fliers. Unless you are playing zone mortalis, I don't really love the mor deythan on foot. At least not with flamers. 

 

As for the rest of the list, the javelin's are a good idea. Similarly, you can do speeders or a drop pod with meltas. A fire raptor would be solid as well. Lot's of options.

[SkimaskMohawk]

For 1500 the javelins and sicaran are probably the best baseline. Av 11 makes bolters a non threat and they get 3 str 8 shots a turn per until you unload with the hunter killers (compared to normal speeders). Drop meltas are probably too expensive for a suicide unit in 1500 and while I love a fire raptor, it's probably a tad too expensive

[stang]

Sicaran or deredeo, 2 javelins for sure with multimelta and Hunter killers, maun as he's dirt cheap and you don't have a large squad to buff with a chaplain

Hear you on Maun. Always intended to get him. Should I still go for the large squad and chaplain though? or will that be quickly invalidated in 1850-2500 levels...

 

I really like my mor deythan in rhinos or in fliers. Unless you are playing zone mortalis, I don't really love the mor deythan on foot. At least not with flamers. 

 

As for the rest of the list, the javelin's are a good idea. Similarly, you can do speeders or a drop pod with meltas. A fire raptor would be solid as well. Lot's of options.

 

I agree with Rhinos. Eventually I do intend on getting them but i figured for 1500, another unit (that can infiltrate) will be "ok"?

 

Javelins - Never considered them to be honest. They were never really quite mentioned in the Tactica or battle reports. 

Fire Raptors vs Sicarians - I understand both are fantastic but damn are they pricey. Furthermore, they both occupy the coveted Heavy Support slot.  What would make for a better investment? or should I just save for that Typhon... or Leviathan Dred... 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well in your starting out list you already have 2 troops, I'm not sure why you'd add more filler if you have the minimum and arguably the best support character. The fire raptor is better for anti air, infantry and up to medium vehicles, but it's a lot more than the sicaran, which is better when points are tight as the base cost for a awesome fast chassis with an excellent main gun is 125? 135 tops. The main reason you don't see javelins talked about is because they cost so much money to buy, so not many people run them. You get two twinlinked Krak a multi-melta with 2 hunter killers on an av 11 fast skimmers that can deepstrike and outflank. In the raven guard list. For less than 100. Typhons don't take up to heavy. Wait for the full rules Levis to see transport options

[Hesh Kadesh]

Still not sold on the Sicaran in Legion v Legion battles. TL high Strength that is invalidated by 3+ saves, jetbikes are 2+ saves, and Land Speeders will probably kill that before it has a chance to kill courtesy of outflank or deep strike.

 

Or if not, they were one shot pops. It is had Interceptor without skyfire? That would make it capable. Until then, it suffers the same issues as the Skyspear launcher in 40k IMHO.

[stang]

Still not sold on the Sicaran in Legion v Legion battles. TL high Strength that is invalidated by 3+ saves, jetbikes are 2+ saves, and Land Speeders will probably kill that before it has a chance to kill courtesy of outflank or deep strike.

 

Or if not, they were one shot pops. It is had Interceptor without skyfire? That would make it capable. Until then, it suffers the same issues as the Skyspear launcher in 40k IMHO.

 

Hi Hesh, what would you suggest instead?

 

Im looking for a fit to -

• 2 x10 tacs - 300.
• 3 x 5 Mor Deythan - 480.
• 3 Quad Rapiers - 180.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Hard to say. Something to counter AV14 helps here. I'm a fan of Graviton because of Flare Shields or Achilles, but you also lack any anti air, and from what I can see, any armour whatsoever, meaning Fire Raptors, Avengers and Caestus eat you alive.

[stang]

Hard to say. Something to counter AV14 helps here. I'm a fan of Graviton because of Flare Shields or Achilles, but you also lack any anti air, and from what I can see, any armour whatsoever, meaning Fire Raptors, Avengers and Caestus eat you alive.

So perhaps...

1. the Deredeo?
2. SkimaskMohawk's double Javelins?
3. Primaris Lightnings with Kraken Missiles?

I had planned to switch out my quad rapier for graviton when I go up to 2000. Or perhaps I should do it now considering I have 3 Mor Deythans?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Javelins aren't meant for anti air, go for a deredeo fire raptor if you want solid AA that also does a good job at other stuff. Worst case use a bare bones sicaran as 6 shots with twinlinked and ignore jink can work and you'll have more points left to work with

[defl0]

I finally had a chance to go through the updated AOD rules and figure out how they impact RG. 

 

Looks like, drop pods get hit with the nerf bat a bit since null deploy armies are auto lose. Even reserve armies carry a lot of risk now. That said, first turn alpha strike / beta strike lists become a lot better with 30k's sudden death victory rules. 

 

I posted an article in my blog:

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2015/11/raven-guard-30k-updated-rules-for.html

 

I'll take a look at all the mission victory conditions in my next article. 

[Slips]

Pretty sure FW stated during the Recent Open Day that Auto-Lose DP armies was not the intent and that they'll rectify this at some point.

 

...when that'll happen? Who knows, hopefully the next book.

[defl0]

I hadn't heard that. But it would be a nice clarification.

 

Until then... thems the rules, so don't get caught with your pants down ;)

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's really...not that big of a deal. I can't really think of a list where I'd want 100% of my list in Reserve, especially since maun gives the best bonuses to drop when he's deployed

[Hesh Kadesh]

Drop pods, and especially not the Raven Guard, didn't get hit with a nerf bat at all, in the meta at least. The Decap Strike is better able to work because it has Typhons and Rapiers.

[stang]

 

I posted an article in my blog:

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2015/11/raven-guard-30k-updated-rules-for.html

 

I'll take a look at all the mission victory conditions in my next article. 

 

Great to see you writing again delf0. The support on this thread along with your blog helped a beginner like me narrow down my legions. 

[defl0]

Thanks Stang! 

 

Just finished my mission reviews for Calth if you are interested. Really changed the way i think about some list building.

 

Check it out here:

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2015/11/raven-guard-30k-updated-rules-for_11.html

[SkimaskMohawk]

I truly don't understand how you think drop pods are liabilities. Also, dedicated transports could never score in 30k...

[defl0]

So after the FAQ, every event and local game I played over the last year counted dedicated transports as scoring. Even Adepticon had scoring transports. So let's just chalk out up to local meta ;)

 

As for drop pods, they used to be denial units, so putting them on a objective (no deviation with maun) was powerful. Almost every mission in the set are based on objectives or having units in certain locations. So their value compared to a rhino had decreesed IMO.

 

Plus mobility is a huge issue both in the survival, tactical and scoring side.

 

So yes, there are situations of delayed deployment and timing or non decapitating strike/maun lists where they have a place but these situations are less automatic now.

[Nusquam]

I'm back to playing 30k again and had a game vs Iron Warriors, It was rough. He rolled the one trait that allows you to redploy a unit and it threw a wrench in my plans. It saved his Praetor and Tyrants from a pod of combi-plas seekers and Nex.

 

He castled up in the corner, Vanguard Strike/Scouring, with a Deredeo w/shield, 2 medusa, sicaran, and 20 Tyrants. I should have played the long game and hunkered down on the far objectives to draw him out and blitz him; but instead I played aggressively to keep him in the corner. Was not a good idea against the above. Would have won, but I only managed to tie, due to a  single snap shot lascannon from the sicaran/failed 3+ jink on the Darkwing carrying my Mor Deythan/Explodes result i couldn't get the 4 pointer.

 

I should have adjusted my plans, but that warlord trait got me salty and I was out for blood. My opponent was a great guy though at least.

 

I should have seen that with him footslogging and jammed into the corner he would have to spent at least 2 turns to get in range of me. Then my Darkwingcould have got rear/side armor shots.

The takeaway is sometimes a Decapication Strike isn't possible, but death by a thousand cuts is a good alternative.

[defl0]

What was your list?

[Nusquam]

Maun, Camo, Decap Strike

Nex

 

Tac Squad, AA, P Axe
Tac Squad, AA

 

Mor Deythan x10, 10 combi flamers, Darkwing

Contemptor, Chain fist, Kheres, Pod

Apothecary, x2

 

Seekers x10, combiplas, pod

 

Later on my seekers did kill 6 of his Tyrants that had his Praetor and spent 2 turns taking pot shots in nearby ruins absorbing fire. That many cyclone launchers is a lot of serious firepower. The investment in AA on the Tac sarges was a good idea though; they ended up tanking a lot of krak missiles. I could also have deployed better looking back on it. Rust accumulates fast ha.

[SkimaskMohawk]

the iron warriors definitely seems to have had a stronger list; darkwing is really expensive for a transport when 2 squads of 5 MD in rhinos are both cheaper and better in terms of drawing more firepower to get rid of completely. The seekers are another huge points sink and other than them and the MD your list doesnt have much going for it

[Hesh Kadesh]

Hot damn rocket vomit!

 

I'm not personally impressed with the Darkwing. I find it a bit.... naff for its expense. A Caestus is just better. Sure, its not got the lascannons, but a 2 shot big Frak Round? Blind is okayish, but it only affects models not units, which with the way majority weapon skill works, you're unlikely to trigger unless on very small units, while Concussive; the units concussive is effective against are pretty much immune to it anyway. TL'd Heavy Bolter nets at best a couple of kills, while the Two TL'd Lascannons are... eh. Alright, I guess. I just can't help but feel that you're better off spending the points elsewhere. Like on a Pod. A Drop Pod is 35 and open topped, comes down first turn, and saves you 240pts which can pick you up a Fire Raptor with Cannons or a full Rapier Battery.