[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[TompiQ]

So I'm seriously considering 3x 10 Dark Fury squads as well as Corax right now.

 

Do you think I would be better served with having them in an Angels of Wrath force or a more conventional force with infiltrating ground elements? And if so, what units would you consider ideal to use them with?

[Nusquam]

With that many Furies, and the rumored discounted AMs from the new redbook, having Hit and Run from Angels is great. I personally am I sucker for going first so I'm fixated on Decap Strike and ReCo^TM. Gunships, jets, and speeders come to mind. Each of which can deliver suitable AT and AP.

 

Here's my first take on a XIX Predation Fleet

• HQ
  • Legion Centurion RG

    Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Power Axe, Refractor Field, Volkite Charger

    • Consul

      Master of Signal

  • Legion Praetor SoH

    Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Paragon Blade

    • Master of the Legion

      The Black Reaving

• Troops
  • Reaver Attack Squad

    Jump Packs, 14x Reavers, Chieftain

  • Reaver Attack Squad

    Jump Packs, 14x Reavers, Chieftain

  • Reaver Attack Squad

    Jump Packs, 14x Reavers, Chieftain

• Elites
  • Legion Terminator Squad RG (goes in eagle)

    5x Combi-plas, cataphractii

• Fast Attack
  • Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron
    • x3 Legion Javelin Attack Speeder

      2x Hunter-killer Missiles each

  • Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship

    Twin-linked Multi-melta, Two Twin-linked Lascannons

  • Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter

    Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 4 Kraken penetrator heavy missiles

• Heavy Support
  • Legion Fire Raptor Gunship

    Reaper Autocannon battery

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    XVI: Sons of Horus

  • Legion Astartes

    XIX: Raven Guard

The idea is that they can be deployed via fast moving raid ships and scour all life. It's far from optimized, but Shattered Legions is explicitly meant for thematic armies anyway.

 

makes me wonder if additional "Age of Darkness Themes" like Shattered will come out.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

holy crap.

 

the Dark Fury upgrade frankly scares me.

[defl0]

Well with Angel's wrath you use the assault marines as tank hunters with melta bombs and as anvils to hold Units in place for the dark fury squads to smash. It's one of those lists where things like chaplains and even Libby's with jump packs shine.

 

If you run a combined force you definately take grav cannons to deal with typhons or bombards. The other interesting option is allied with cult artillery.

[Slips]

What of the new Jump Pack RoW Thats kinda like Angels Wrath but-not-really?

 

• rite allowing assault squads to deep strike turn 1, on the turn they arrive, they can only be snap fired at, and gain hit and run from turn 2 onwards, all units in the army must be able to deep strike or be transported in flyers

[defl0]

Anyone have a good source for pis of the new ROWs.

 

All the recaps seems to miss little pieces... Grr.

 

But yeah. The drop assault vanguard is great. The snapshot piece is key, so you don't die a horrible death to templates.

 

The new ROWs really open up a lot of list possabilities

[Slips]

It means that Deepstriking Melta Bomb Assault Squads next to Expensive Template Droppers is possibly a very good thing to do now since you aren't afraid of them getting vaped and with how hard RG can stack the deck for them to go First, you wont have to fear a T2 Nuking as they charge into the Target Vehicle.

 

Couple that with the Assault Squads rumored price drop and we might be seeing MUCH more Jump Pack units in general.

[Nusquam]

Well we only get to stack the deck with Decap Strike or ReCo. Maun helps seize but that's it, he's icing.

 

I'm very interested in this AM RoW. Though it won't matter because you can null deploy and if going second and only snapshots when they arrive anyway. So you don't really need first turn. If AMs drop at least 50 points then this RoW is going to be painful to fight if you don't have counter charge units ready to go, because shooting them isn't going to work.

 

Right off I can see using Mauns super vox to bring them in reliable. Then depending on wording, having Corax drop down with the AMs. Even if he can't for whatever reason he can still drop behind or be set up to jump behind them so they're always the closest to Corax so can only be fired at with snap shots anyway. Then with Corax in play the AMs auto run 6 and can spread out/close in on their targets.

 

I had reserved "An Unkindess" for flyer/jetbike heavy lists, but depending on the details of this AM RoW that may change.

 

And continuing this weekends other obsession of "Make a lis with all the new RoWs" my first swing at ReCo

 

• HQ
  • Legion Centurion

    Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Power Weapon, Refractor Field

    Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes

    • Consul

      Vigilator

      Sabatoge!, Scout, Sniper, Camo

  • Strike Captain Alvarex Maun

    Cameleoline, Master of the Legion

    Independent Character, Legiones Astartes, Master of the Legion, The Bleeding Edge

• Troops
  • Legion Reconnaissance Squad

    4x Legion Space Marines, Melta Bombs, 4x Space Marine Shotgun

    Acute Senses, Legiones Astartes, Outflank, Scout

    • Legion Sergeant

      Combi-melta

  • Legion Reconnaissance Squad

    4x Legion Space Marines, 4x Sniper Rifle

    Acute Senses, Legiones Astartes, Outflank, Scout

    • Legion Sergeant

      Sniper Rifle

  • Legion Reconnaissance Squad

    4x Legion Space Marines, 4x Sniper Rifle

    Acute Senses, Legiones Astartes, Outflank, Scout

    • Legion Sergeant

      Sniper Rifle

• Elites
  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery
    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

      x3 Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun'), +Shatter Shells

  • Mor Deythan Strike Squad

    7x Combi-flamer, 9x Mor Deythan, 3x Plasma gun, Shade

    Fatal Strike, Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Scout, Stealth

    • Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier

      Dozer Blade

      Repair

• Fast Attack
  • Dark Fury Assault Squad

    Chooser of the Slain, 9x Dark Fury

    Fateful Descent, Legiones Astartes, Sudden Strike

  • Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter

    Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 4 Kraken penetrator heavy missiles

    Agile, Deep Strike, Missile Barrage, Supersonic

  • Xiphon Interceptor

    Agile, Cluster Warhead, Deep Strike, Supersonic, Terminal Tracking

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    XIX: Raven Guard

• Lord of War
  • Corvus Corax
    • Master of the Legion

      Recon Company

 

Vigilator goes with Furies to scout them granting them shrouded, then he has stock camo to grant +3 to cover. In keeping with Coraxs habit of going solo he hops up behind the Furies/Vigilator to maintain his snapshot rule.

 

The MB unit outflanks to take harass backfield units. Would have went with a combi-plas, since you can't assault out of outflank anymore, but wanted them to be able to assault if he fires it later.

The rest is self-explanatory.

 

Mor Deythan also love this RoW because they also have stealth for a +3 total to cover turn one.

[TompiQ]

The new Assault Marine RoW sure seems interesting. I'm worried about its bonuses only applying to bog standard assault marines rather than all jump pack units though, as that'd mean its value over a standard list with a more varied unit selection would be abysmal. I haven't been able to confirm it either way, but I have a hunch it only benefits the standard unit seeing as Angels of Wrath would be irrelevant otherwise.

 

That means Dark Furies would probably be better of with infiltrating normal squads to act as a more immediate threat, no?

 

EDIT - The Vigilator idea is neat Nusquam. I'm now deliberating using three of them in conjunction with three DF squads, hah!  Only issue is the points cost, each DF unit + Vigi ending up at roughly 480 points. If they get any cover, it becomes 2+.

 

I'm thinking of arming the recon squads with snipers and cameleoline and using the Mor Deythan models because they are awesome, however I'm slightly bummed that the Mor cost less for more performance. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by TompiQ

[Nusquam]

MD got a 2MB bump up I hear. While Dark Furies went from a 10 to an 11 for free. Might be part of the "assault needs all the help it can get" model though.

 

Three vigilators, fury squads, and recon squads don't leave a whole lot in the way of ranged AT, but they would cube up any and all power armor ha. Do players have to test for fear? The would have to upon seeing 30 Furies.

 

Also I read the new UM RoW. It screams RG to it's very core to the point it's painful. UM should have gotten the babysitting RoW and we should of gotten the Guerilla warfare one. The UM one even requires a Vigilator and stops the use of fodder. While the RG one is only good with the use of fodder. Though I seriously doubt anyone would be opposed if you plead that case. The only weird part is provenance requirements. Though I suspect it's to stop from infiltrating cheap psuedo-marines or jacked up ragemongers everywhere.

[PurpleRain]

the Dark Fury upgrade frankly scares me.

The chooser of the slain also gained precision strike!

 

Nex also gained Precision shot

 

Corax gained precision shot and precision strike

 

Mor Deythan initial squad has increased in price by a raven talon

 

All the characters explicitly say only can be taken as loyalists

 

Other than that no other changes in the red book I can see

Edited February 8, 2016 by PurpleRain

[Nusquam]

I'm grumpy about the MD increase. I mean they were better recons for the same cost so it's not the worst thing in the world.

 

Also I just read the Blackshield rules. I can't tell if Shattered or Blackshields can make a better thematic XIX Predation Fleet list. I'm leaning towards Blackshield Outlanders for them.

[Hergrmir]

How do the Shattered Legion rules interact with the new RoW? Is there some way to put together Raven Guard and the new (Calth, I assume) infilitraty Ultramarine rite in an effective way?

 

I could easily imagine that one of Corax's earlier tunnel fighting compatriots might be instructing some red-marked in more effective underground strike and fade tactics. The question now is how they got to be on Calth before the shadow crusade kicked off in the first place.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Recon Company? Scouting Jinking 2+ Cover Furious Charge Bikers for White Scarslite, combined with Forge Lord. Recon Squad Nuncio Voxing for Medusa and Phosphex Mortars while Grav Dreads and HCB Predators.

[defl0]

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/the-shattered-legions-black-shields-new-rules.html

 

That's a pretty good synopsis of how the rules work. So yes you can combine ultras and RG and take a ROW. Ultras twin link rule works with other legions. So it creates some solid combos. Losing denial on all ur units though is a big price to pay though

[defl0]

I'm grumpy about the MD increase. I mean they were better recons for the same cost so it's not the worst thing in the world.

 

Don't be. Could have been a lot worse. 10 pts more is fine. They were undercosted and still are even with a 10 pts bump. It just slightly discourages multiple small units.

[Nusquam]

How do the Shattered Legion rules interact with the new RoW? Is there some way to put together Raven Guard and the new (Calth, I assume) infilitraty Ultramarine rite in an effective way?

 

I could easily imagine that one of Corax's earlier tunnel fighting compatriots might be instructing some red-marked in more effective underground strike and fade tactics. The question now is how they got to be on Calth before the shadow crusade kicked off in the first place.

 

That's a great idea. Would have to keep the UM HQ safe but I'm sure a few of us are used to it now due to Maun. Then make the Vigilator an RG Advisor to get Mor Deythan and Furies. Welp I'll have to brainstorm a list for that too ha.

[Nusquam]

Ok read the Assault marine RoW. At least half of the AMs must be in reserve, they all auto deepstrike turn one, and enemies within 12" can only snap shot at them. Only things that can deepstrike/are a/in flyer can be taken, AMs compulsory. There's not limit on anyone joining the AMs.

 

It's pretty restrictive like Angels Wrath, but feels better. Having the Darkwing as a DT for our MD, Maun, and termis makes it easier, though expensive, for us to take it and not crowd our FA slots with flyer transports like other legions would have to. You could null-deploy with enough AMs, or start half on the table, to hold you over into turn 2, but some of the wording on AoD missions aren't clear on if it's auto lose at the end of game turn, like normal warhammer, or player turn. Otherwise you'll need some speeders/jetbikes which we can grab readily(thanks DT Darkwings) due to having open FA slots.

 

I'm just spitballing here but something like:

Maun (Goes with MD)

>RoW

 

Mor Deythan

>loaded for bear, Darkwing

 

AM

>20

 

AM

>20

 

Jav squadron

>x3 jav, MM, x2 HK  each

 

Speeder squadron

>x3 Speeder, gravguns, HK

 

Lightning

>x4 Kraken, SR, TH

Fire Raptor

>RAC

 

Just shy of 2.5k deepening on future AM discount/upgrades

 

Now that, is an Unkindness of Ravens.

 

Edit: So the snap shots on AMs happen the turn after they arrive. So interceptor hits normally. Feels like an oversight. Like they're hard to see on the ground but not falling from the sky?

Edited February 10, 2016 by Nusquam

[TompiQ]

But it's only AM that gets the bonus, not jump troops in general? Bummer! 

 

Regarding the Dark Fury list, the core I have down so far is the following (running the recon RoW):

 

3x Vigilator w. Jump Pack, AA, Power Weapon, Melta bomb, Refractor field 145pts each

3x5 Recon Marines, Melta Bombs 150pts each

3x10 Dark Furies, Melta Bombs 330pts each

Corvus Corax 450pts

 

2325 points in total

 

Feels a little spam-ish, but man would I enjoy this on the table. The Furies scout 12", then move 12"+6" in the first round, meaning their threat range is a whooping 42"+charge range by turn 2, while any cover turns into a 2+ during what is hopefully the enemies only shooting phase before they hit home. Each squad packs 2 WS5 Melta Bombs in case of dreadnoughts, and the Vigilators can branch off and target lone vehicles if required. Not to mention the 3D6 S5 ap6 hits they provide before the game starts, which should be enough to wreck a predator or equivalent.

 

Aiming for 3k points, I can't help but worry about enemy transports and tanks in general. Seeing as heavy support units have to stay in reserves, I was thinking of running a Fire Raptor or two, albeit I have no experience with them. I'm a little bummed out over having no slot for a lightning tho'. Two raptors with Reaper batteries leaves 255 points, how do you think I should spend them?

[defl0]

Yeah. My take of the AM ROW at 2500 would be something closer to this:

 

Praetor w. JP and goodies

20 AM w. MBs, 5 Power Axes

10 AM w. MBs, 3 Power Axes

10 DF 

10 DF

10 DF

Fire Raptor RAC

Fire Raptor RAC

Lightining w. 4 kraken, SR, TH

 

As much as I love Maun. I'm not sure I care about failed reserve rolls or going first in this list and you can't really get him on the board for deepstrike when you want him to be. 

 

A forgelord on a jetbike or with a jump pack would technically have deepstrike though, and could start on the board and could have a VOX, but I don't think you can infiltrate him anymore, so it doesn't really help a ton. unless you want to deploy close to your line. 

[Nusquam]

SO I was mulling over some RG/IH/Sal shattered lists because I really like IH and sally models as well as all the stories about RG/IH/Sally stories and thought it was a perfect modeling opportunity.

 

Then I saw the IH Gorgon RoW and realized you could have RG Legion Support Squads infiltrate with graviton guns because it's any infantry model that can swap a flamer. Infiltrate 10, scout with a vigilator and pop a spartan turn 1, then the Mor Deythan right next to them Fatal Strike the occupants. Plus you get elite castellax, all vehicles get AuotSim, and tanks outflank. The biggest draw back is the one FA slot. Really makes the Darkwing as a DT shine though.

[TompiQ]

One issue with that tactic is that you won't be able to guarantee first turn in the same way Decap or Recon allows, meaning you risk having a squad that's deployed in the open while being top priority for the enemy.

 

Then again, it is by far a more viable method of using the RoW benefit than regular IH, and Grav does have a decent 18" threat bubble, so you got better (or the same at over half range) reach than infiltrating melta and the same as rapid-fire plasma. It's just that as soon as potential targets move away (and they will, before or after the first vehicle pops) your squad suddenly has to sacrifice a whole round worth of shooting to catch up, if they even can.

 

As area denial it's great. Especially if your meta contains lots of heavy vehicles. A 10 man squad costs 275 and should average roughly 7HP worth of damage once they shoot. If you can take out a Typhon round one? They've paid their due.

 

It will be completely denied by infantry deployed at the edge of the deployment zone with vehicles 6" back, however.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The issue with Shattered Legion lists that I've seen is that they need consent, much like Relics and alternative FOCs, so they're not exactly in standard play

[Caillum]

Yes, let's remember that this is the Raven Guard Tactica thread, not the Shattered Legions one. With SL being designed for campaign play, it probably doesn't belong here.

[Nusquam]

One issue with that tactic is that you won't be able to guarantee first turn in the same way Decap or Recon allows, meaning you risk having a squad that's deployed in the open while being top priority for the enemy.

 

Then again, it is by far a more viable method of using the RoW benefit than regular IH, and Grav does have a decent 18" threat bubble, so you got better (or the same at over half range) reach than infiltrating melta and the same as rapid-fire plasma. It's just that as soon as potential targets move away (and they will, before or after the first vehicle pops) your squad suddenly has to sacrifice a whole round worth of shooting to catch up, if they even can.

 

As area denial it's great. Especially if your meta contains lots of heavy vehicles. A 10 man squad costs 275 and should average roughly 7HP worth of damage once they shoot. If you can take out a Typhon round one? They've paid their due.

 

It will be completely denied by infantry deployed at the edge of the deployment zone with vehicles 6" back, however.

 

Since you'll know if you're going second you can always just put them in an advantageous position. Even if you are going first, you wouldn't put them in the open anyway. There should be plenty of terrain in a near-central position to strike your target and remain viable. If no such place exists because they deployed it in a far corner or held it in reserves that's even better. It's mostly out of the game without firing a shot. Then they'll have to focus on that unit or face it's wrath, leaving the rest of your army extra breathing room to operate.

 

 

The issue with Shattered Legion lists that I've seen is that they need consent, much like Relics and alternative FOCs, so they're not exactly in standard play

 

Playing a game requires consent too, you can't force them. Besides, generally there would be no reason not to agree unless there's some crazy combo we're not yet aware of. I wouldn't bring only the stuff required for a Shattered List on a pick-up game type of day to be safe though.

 

Also reading RG stories and novels about the shattered legions I saw RG as the primary element and core, with the other 'shattered' LA as an ally that's simply taken in your primary detachment instead of an allied. Like the strike forces Corax assembled as opposed to 'stranded and met up on the battlefield'. Shattered Legions is really blurring the line since it's mostly narrative based, as opposed to a cut and dry separate army.