[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Claws and Effect]

It is pointless. On the whole the rending portion was to make the non special weapons have a bit more punch when activated. Plasma is still the best weapon to use MD with imo.

Still have the combi-meltas on that Mor Deythan squad because I needed the extra anti armor for my list.

 

I have 2 more boxes of them I haven't built yet that will probably be a 10 man plasma squad.

[Claws and Effect]

On further reflection, I'm glad I gave the Mor Deythan melta.

 

There's a lot of vehicles out there that are immune to the Melta rule, so being able to score penetrating hits on an Armoured Ceramite Land Raider or Spartan with meltaguns is a nice ability to have.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea, but here's the thing; plasma gets rending as well, and double the shots.

 

10 meltas on ability average 1.6 pen, getting an explode 0.54 of the times you use it against a spartan or Land Raider. Usually you get 1 hull point. 10 plasma average 3.3 hull points, allowing you to kill a chipped spartan or Raider far more effectively.

[Claws and Effect]

I also don't have to roll my melta shots 1 model at a time because they might die if they roll a 1. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't make that much of a difference, but it matters when you're playing against a clock as well as your opponent.

 

Also, melta is AP1, so wouldn't that give a 1 in 3 chance of getting an Explodes result since it adds 2 to the roll?

 

And if my opponent is running an Achilles and I need it to Explode to claim the objective they parked it on top of, plasma can't do it at all. I did exactly that to my opponent in a game I played last week. I parked my Achilles on top of the only objective he could score points on knowing that he had no weapons that could make it explode. If I can think of that, so can someone else.

 

Edit:

 

1 last thing. Melta with Rending will score penetrating hits on 14 armor far more reliably than plasma. If I get the rend with melta on 14 armor it is automatically a penetrating hit, I don't even need to roll the d3. I have to roll a 3 or better with plasma.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Claws and Effect

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well ya, rolling 20 dice in pools of two take more time, but if you come from 40k, the game speed will be far more dramatic. None of my 30k games have taken anywhere as near as my 40k games, even with the higher model count. But in the context of a tactics thread, "not wanting to spend the energy parsing a roll" is basically worthless when talking about the merits and efficacy of stuff.

 

I gave you the odds of penetrating and explodes already. 1/3 of 1.65 is 0.54.

 

The Achilles is a terrible example. You're saying you think the melta is a better choice because you'll be able to hold a unit's combis and ability until turn 5 to clear it from the objective with a 28% chance of that happening. And it not have something inside. Mor deythan are a spike damage unit. They infiltrate+scout or outflank and dump their output. They don't stick around, because they tend to be giant threats that are also rather fragile.

 

And yes, I understand how rending interacts with a 14 rolled vs av 14. It was part of my calculation that I already provided. Nothing changes the fact that melta is unlikely to one shot a Land Raider or spartan and instead deal 1 hull point. For 305 points, minimum.

 

If you need heavy anti armour there's much more efficient units. Grav rapiers are great for Raven guard; you get 4 for the cost of those foot Mor deythan and can basically one shot a Land Raider. Even if you don't get the kill, they have to pass 4 instances of dangerous terrain or die/be immobilized. Dreadnoughts in pods are great as well, also with grav. Medusas are pretty good too. Lightnings are great but can't have turn 1 impact, though I guess for Mr. Turn 5 Achilles that doesn't matter too much eh?

[MichaelCarmine]

I know, it's been about two and a half months since the last Post, but i just recently joined this community! =]

 

I've never found use for the Mor Deythan.

In my experience, Machinekiller-Vets (DropPod) do a much better job at Tank hunting - first turn (DropPod) and the turns to come (Melta Bombs).

 

Whereas Seekers do a much better job against Infantry/MCs (maybe apart from using CombiFlamers).

I love, fielding them with a (infiltrating) LR and just put it where they can do the most damage. I know you can also do that with a Rhino, but it does not tend to be such a reliable cover/los blocker against the enemy backlash as the LR. And also... it's a Raider =]

 

Michael

[SkimaskMohawk]

Their main draw is the flamer combo with an alpha strike or sustained special weapon damage with the ability to take 3. They're not really suited to anti tank and much better at killing toughness value models. In a rhino you can also just have them shoot out the fire point until you need to disembark and spike something.

 

Directly comparing them to seekers, they both have bs5 and implacable; seekers get precision shots and single target preferred enemy compared to stealth, scout, and once per game rend and twin link. Mor deythan are also a bit cheaper, even after combi, for a base unit.

 

Usually this means that MD are able to set up an alpha strike and are a bit more versatile in target selection while seekers can burn down their chosen target better at the cost of that speed. When using decapitation strike though, all units with an IC proc preferred enemy for the Mor deythan, so the main draw of the seekers is diluted by a lot. At that point MD are more flexible with better deployment options, better defense and better sustained damage if you shell out for the plasma guns.

[MichaelCarmine]

Actually, the Seekers are the ones that are a bit cheaper, since their Combi-Weapons received a point drop.

 

And yeah, the MD get Scout, but they need that in case of the CombiFlamers.

Also Seekers can get Scout too =] I admit, buying a LR for that seems a bit steep, but as i said -  they work so well with the Proteus - which in general is a good Buff for Decap RG thanks to Explorator augury web.

And beeing able to place it after i know where the worst anti Tank is can be crucial. And since i choose the Special Target for the Seekers after all is deployed, they can be pretty flexible too!

Its true though, MD have better defence, thanks to stealth and the 3 special weapons help, but they need that! 'Cause after  their alpha strike, they are just a fancy tacical squad with BF5 and 3 Special Weapons, whereas every Seeker remains a big threat thanks to Str5 AP2 Shred rounds.

 

And finally the biggest pluspoint for me, which makes them better in my eyes - Seekers are Fast Attack, so they don't require that juicy Elite-Slots, as the MD do. And as you said, they also all have precision shots, which most people forget! That helps soooo much when dealing with that pesky medic in the back, or those special weapon guys, you want to delete! ;) xD

 

Md might work better for some people, and they are really good, no question about that! But seekers are so much more flexible in my eyes.

Edited August 6, 2021 by MichaelCarmine

[SkimaskMohawk]

For a base unit of 5 with combis, seekers are 180 while Mor deythan are 170.

 

Scout is useful for more than just the combi flamer thing; it can used for alpha striking any of their combis, or to reposition the unit out of los.

 

Sure, there's various ways to give scout to seekers, but that's not a direct comparison and it inflates the cost of the unit as a result. The cheapest is usually with a vigilator, since it doesn't cost 230. The raider is another option, but augury web isn't actually that great for decapitation strike because it mainly used pods, which are built to have the good stuff in wave 1 and filler in wave 2 and you don't tend to care that much about them coming in. If you have less efficient pod splits or more reserves its good though.

 

Neither squad usually gets to to stay alive after dumping their combis. The fact that the seeker rounds are heavy means that they have to stay where they dropped out and kind of reinforces that. I prefer 3 plasma over the special ammo as you can move and shoot, and also threaten light vehicles.

 

It kind of really depends for the slot. Both elites and fast attack have some extremely good units, but it's what you're focussing on that dictates how fast either fill up.

 

Precision shots are nice, but pretty irrelevant. You usually come in and blow up your target through weight of plasma. The apothecary instance is the rare case it matters, but that's kind of meta dependant and how much blobs with apothecaries see play.

 

I have to disagree with flexibility. Seekers are built for one specific target, with one turn of shooting from their combis and are telegraphed to their target extremely early on. The only flexible part is their special ammo.

[MichaelCarmine]

Yeah, a base unit! But we are talking full squad size here and you want your 3 Plasmas, or not? =] that makes tham a good bit more expensive, by 24 points, to be precise.

 

Since you can infiltrate at a minimum of just over 18 inch from an enemy the additional scout move is a neat gimmik, but i wouldn't call it neccesary for a good alphastrike.

Drifing up and exiting a ride brings you just over 6 inches to the nearest enemy in most cases by "powergaming" even a bit further, but i dislike such behavior...

 

Repositioning out of los would make sense, if you could do it after the enemy seized the initiative, but since this happens after scout moves i dont see a valid point here.

 

Yeah, i know you can get that cheaper, but a vigilator doesn't safe you from enemy fire, when your opponent seizes the initiative, or has the first turn to begin with.

As someone who played lots of games with multiple (pure) drop pod lists, ocationally you really do want to hold some of the good stuff for the second turn, if your opponent does also have reserves. I'm talking outflanking contemptor-talons, deep striking terminators, summoned deamons, enemy droppods,... You really do want a counter ready for such things and making sure, that it will arrive when needed is not to be underestimated!

... on top of the additional scout xD i know, that limits the squad size to 8, but do i really need more than 16 plasma shots?

And he is an additional HS! Thanks to decap, we only get one and i normaly fill that with a leviathan...

 

My seekers do... though in 99% it has to do with the raider blocking los for them =] which is a lot harder to do with a rhino.

Well, if you position them right, from the start, you won't have to move, to find a suitable target for the heavy rounds. =]

I'll see your point against the vehicles though!

 

Yeah, thats right! I do preffer Elite-Units, such as the Deathstorm (thanks to Decap Strike), apothecarys for my jumpers, Melta-Vets, destroyers, Contemptors and the occasional Terminators.

So having them in FA is a huge win for me! =]

 

Oh, no! There i have to disagree heavily. Usually my seekers encounter all kinds of Cataphractii-Medicae-Combos, and let me tell you that - beeing able to put wounds on that Medicae can be crucial, even if he gets his look-out-sirs!

 

And sometimes i dont need/want to unload my plasma on the first turn, just because it is not always needed. Beeing able to just bolter out some apothecary/sergeant/special weapon from up to 30 inches with the kraken rounds? priceless =]

 

Maybe they are build for that, but you don't have t use them that way. What do you do, if the perfect target for your MDs is in reserve? Or the only infantry in sight/range is a tactical squad, because all the other stuff is inside a transport, or its shielding a juicier target? Do you burst your precious alpha strike on them? Because otherewise you are just an BF5 Tactical squad.

Whereas seekers have the freedom to choose - is the target unit cramped up? Rapid fire Blast rounds! Is it to far away? Kraken penetrator rounds!

I am also a guy who likes to build armys not against the opponent i face - i like building lists that can face a plethora of different enemies, like militia, mechanicum and all kinds of different Legions. With MDs, I'll have to kit them out in the listbuilding (Flamer/Plasma-combi), with seekers, i have ammo for all kinds of foes in addition to my plasma! Militia/solar auxillia? Blast! Mechanicum? Kraken/Tempest! Marines? All of them! xD

 

As said, i don't think MD are bad, i do like them!

Where they a fast attack choice, i would maybe give them a chance, but i don't think they would ever replace seekers in my list.

They are, however, a good bit better in CC! But given the abscence of Special CC Weapons, not by much! ^^'

Edited August 7, 2021 by MichaelCarmine

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well ya, fully kitted for more sustained damage MD are more expensive. But for all combis they're the same and for min sized, cheaper as I said.

 

I'm really not sure what you're going on about with the scout move and power gaming. Scout for infantry is 6", but it's 12" for tanks. So you start 12.1 away, then get to move 6", and disembark the 6"+base size.

 

Also not quite following on the out of sight reposition not being valid; if the opponent has scout they can screen yours out, in which case you can take a safer position out of sight.

 

Well you can do vigilator+rhino for less than the raider and have more seekers. They're safe from the rare seize or going second and still have the exact function.

 

The strength of decapitation strike is that it isn't pure drop. You have a standing force to support your drop, which gives you tools to react to opponent disruption. And if you really want reserve support, then a Damocles has more synergy with drop pods on the whole. And two twinlinked las isn't...really that much to speak about in terms of cheating out a free heavy support. Like it can easily be made up somewhere else.

 

I think it's turning into a difference of meta when talking about surviving power armour/apothecary blobs. I see a lot of high end artillery. It doesn't matter if you have smart los blocking from your transport or fnp when Scorpii and phosphex and Medusas are raining down on you. I'll also note that if it's primus Medicaes in cataphractii you average 0.14 wounds from marked precisions shot plasma.

 

I'm losing you again on the long range boltering to snipe stuff. You're taking your 8 seekers in a land raider to disembark and shoot 8 bolters to snipe a model? Against a special weapon guy, in rapid fire, marked, you average 2.6 precision shots, and 0.65 failed armour saves. So nothing. Against a feel no pain or artificer you're even less likely to get a successful pick. The price is apparently 255 for 3 dead power armour from that volley. It's also a better argument for a rhino so you can stay embarked while throwing out your potshots.

 

Refering to my last sentence, I can leave mor deythan in rhinos and fire plasma out the top, or use my supporting army to crack transports. Or even, burn down vehicles in a worst case because of how rending and twinlinked interact with templates. Seekers are flexible in how they can interact with infantry with their special rounds, but that's it. And honestly, still need mark and no cover to really get value; those 8 so 2 rounds kill 2.5 marines in cover if they're not marked; even the most mind boggling all-hit, 6-per blast rapid fire from those kills 10 marines on average.

 

Why plan units around stuff you'll never play? Plan a list around all the possible matchups that can actually be fielded against you, not pure speculation. And even then, seekers aren't good sustained damage dealers against the range of factions. Solar auxilia trends towards tanks, marines are pretty bolter resistant (as shown earlier) as are custodes, mechanicum are incredibly poor matchups as they also trend towards tanks and multiwound high toughness (terrible for the bolts), while daemons push past that to ridiculous levels where their basic daemon is toughness 6 2 wounds turn 1.

 

Idk man, as I said there's a seemingly very large difference in meta where barrage doesn't seem to rule the day and people invest in really weird things. The deathstorms in particular baffle me; they've gotten worse since the faq where a max volley couldn't kill a jinking speeder and now it doesn't even need to jink. One of the least efficient uses of an elite slot

[MichaelCarmine]

No, you misunderstood! I didn't call scouting "powergaming", i called out the instances, where you can start sideways with your transports and then turning them for the extra inches "powergaming"! =]

 

Well, even without scout, i'll get to 6.1 inch on the nearest enemy, so scout brings you 6 inches if you start that way that's nice to have, but not in the slightest necessary. Also you embark within 6 inches, not 6 inches+basesize.

Maybe you got me wrong here -  what i'm trying to say is, that Infiltration plus scout is nice to have, but sine infiltrate already brings you so close to the enemy, it's not necessary!

Iff infiltrate is off the table, then i am with you, that makes scout awesome!

 

It isn't valid for me, because that is sooo rarely the case. Iff the opponent have scouting units, they will most likely have their own target and don't car in screening off your scouting MDs.

They much more likely just block their valuable units with cheap tacs or vehicles from your MDs.

 

Yeah i could, but why should i? As i said, i don't need scout if im already infiltraiting anyway. And puting a 400pts squad in a rhino, which will be the nearest vehicular target for the enemy AT (well not if you drop some dreads in the enemy line of course), is plain suicide.

 

Well actually it could be 3 LCs, and them being infiltrated in the side of any vehicles, nice!

Though that's not the point i'm trying to make with the LR. His main function is a big LOS blocking tanky transport. Which is much more threatening than a rhino. And will pull much more enemy fire from the rest of your army.

 

I know that and i didn't say, that i just run pure drop-lists, just that i did a few times! ;]

Let's say, you have a fey termites, or drop pods in your backyard. while your hard hitting drop pods are all on the other side of the field.

Now you have only your "fillers" in the second wave, as you said. Wouldn't you like to have a squad of plasmagunners dropping down and give hell to anything that arrived, so the rest of your amy can keep supporting the drops from wave one?

 

I'd much rather have a rerollable Reserve roll, than a simple plus 1. And since the Damocles rarely survives past turn 1, it will not be much of an assistend for upcomming reserves.

 

Yeah, i know how it is to play against Iron Warriors ;] But then they will much more likely be able to survive with a cheap raider by their side, don't you think? Be it embarked, or disembarked with LOS blocking, forcing full scatter.

 

Yeah i get you on that Medicae, but it's a dice game.. they have the chance to do that, which the MDs don't - just last game, they opened up on a full squad of Tyrants with medicae.

After rolling eight sixes from sixteen dice, and putting the medicae and half the squad out, they did their job, they did their job good! xD

If i had MDs, they would've killed the same amount but the medicae would still be alive and buffing the rest of the squad.

 

Once again, i didn't say that you have to, i say that you could do! And as you said it yourself, with the decap buff, they often don't have to rely on their mark!

If for example, you don't have a valid target, or don't want to waste your Combi-load on a tac squad, then you (as you said) either stay in your rhino, and releasing 2 plasmas, or bolters and 3 plasmas by disembarking.

 

The seekers have either the range-, AP-, or amount of possible wounds-advantage over all the non-plasma-wielding MDs.

 

While in my meta, a rhino with an embarked plasma-squad would be popped turn one with ease and the squad inside boltered to death.

Well - since you say your meta inolves high amount of artillery, i'd assume in your meta too.

 

Because i like to go to events =] So i build lists, that can be good against most of the armys i might encounter.

Of course, i could be "that guy", who builds his list 5 minutes before game, after he saw, what the opponent fields, but thats not me! =]

Well, str 3 blast against t3 models work much better then plain str 4 shots. So good against Militia/Auxillia. Even Auxillia doesn't have everythin in side a tank.

 

Against Marines, they got the range or ap advantage, so also better than MDs against them.

Seems that your Mechanicum doesn't field much Ursarax/thallax? The big robots are much less a problem, than those 3 wound t5 4+ armour - guys.

Against mechanicum they have either ap4 kraken rounds with rapid fire on 15 inches, so i can stay much more safely outside those pesky ursarax range. Or just plain str 5 ap2 shred.

Both much better than the average boltgun, the MDs field.

 

Have you even ever tried a deathstorm? Landing in the midst of a enemy formation, blowing 3 rockets in the rear of every vehicle in a 24 inch diameter? Or just drop it on that medusae-pair hiding behind that building? or just park it on an objective and force your opponent to deal with it instead of your other stuff!

I've fielded it about 10 times now, and i got everything, from crippling 5 vehicles in one turn, destroying a contemptor with one salvo, landing it in the midst of 5 knights in a big Multiplayer, forcing the enemy to plan their shielding veeeery carefully, blocking a bridge with it and delaying a world eaters charge in my line by a full turn and finally, killing the enemy warlord turn one, because he hid in the back and failed his 2+ look out sir and 2+ armour... for 115pts!

So far it never dissapointed! =]

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ah gotcha on the pivot. That's arguably just cheating, since the last sentence says you pivot to avoid moving further than you're intended or allowed.

 

Also seems like I misunderstood you on the scout and distance; it reads that you only get 6" of extra movement. You do get base when disembarking though because you're instructed to deploy the model in base contact with the access point and then move.

 

I'll go back to my observation about meta and playstyles with the counter scouting.

 

I'm very confused by you saying you don't need scout. You're paying for a Proteus with exploratory and 8 seekers; you're inflating their cost by 230 points minimum as a result. If you don't care about the scout you can just get a rhino and a Damocles for 100 points less. Alvarex Maun is also a very common pick in decapitation strike, bringing the reroll reserves and an 18" no scatter bubble, rendering the second part of the exploratory web pointless. Also confused about the perceived lack of support, because the point of the Mor deythan is to hit at the same time as the pods, the ultimate unit being the drop-leviathan; you spike their units and leave them trying to react to the leviathan and other sustained damage dealers in your list.

 

Still not sure how the raider stops barrage. Or why you'd you want to inflate the cost even more for one more twin las. 260 is rather expensive.

 

I'll refer back to Alvarex Maun if you're really so dead set against a Damocles and want to make sure your second wave gets in. Him and a rhino for the boys are still cheaper than an exploratory Proteus.

 

Idk, I'd target the land raider so the templates over spill onto the squad next to it. Get the better bs and more value you know. And 230 still isn't cheap lol

 

 

I've lost you again on the probability. If you're going to argue that seekers have the chance to high roll, you can't then say the Mor deythan don't. An average volley against marked tyrants with a primus using combi plasma results in 5 dead with the primus surviving. An average Mor deythan fatal strike with 5 models per template and 3 plasma averages 7.2. If anything, the odds are better for more deythan to high roll or just get more coverage with their templates.

 

I understand that it's an option to not unload your combis, I'm just pointing out how poor of an option it really is. The problem with saying "I don't need mark because I can lean on decap" is that you now the seekers only really have their special ammo as a stand out point. Which isn't very impactful.

 

I'm not sure why you're not including the plasma in the comparison. That's what drives their reliable damage and gives them utility in the first place. If you don't take plasma then ya, the seekers have more flexibility post combis, but at that point I wouldn't be using the Md as chip damage with bolters, I'd be running them onto an objective to hold with their stealth.

 

Idk about the ease of turn 1 lol. You need an average 3 medusa/bombard shots to kill the rhino and half the time night fight is kicking in, pushing it to 4. After that you need 100 bolter shots to kill the power armour troops. Going with the cheapest options in the day time, that's 420 for the arquitors and then another 350 for the 30 tactical marines for about 400 when fully loaded. It's a pretty points inefficient trade and I'd be thrilled if 3 high tier barrage tanks were spent shooting a rhino instead of anything else. I get that it's hyperbole, but unless you get seized on the rhino should be safe from non barrage since you can infiltrate and scout them behind los or in area terrain where they get obscured.

 

Events explain a lot, especially if they're big enough to draw people from out of town and use different scoring methods. I'd say it's pretty safe to value the seekers in that sense, but I'm still very sceptical about the impact of their special rounds. I'll also admit to not knowing how badly the malcador nerf affected auxilia; before it was just malcadors and dracosians and stuff.

 

Uh so for the mechanicum I can tell you that thallax and ursurax are definitely present; I sold ~10000 points into the community and there was about 30 thallax in there. Once again I'm going to say that with the plasma, the Mor deythan out damage the seekers on either ap 4 or ap 2 round, unless they're marked. Either way it doesn't matter too much, because even then you only fully kill 1 model with either squad lol. Non-las thanatars, darkfire castellax and arlatax are way bigger threats than thallax and arguably ursurax imo.

 

My opponents never really give me the room to land in the middle of their formation to have gotten such value lol. Things like giving up rear armour on non-rhinos or access to backfield artillery just doesn't happen. As I mentioned above, I don't really have a lot of faith in investing points for unlikely high rolls; the contemptor averages 1 glance...from the rear; the warlord has a 2.7% chance of dying. I'd rather take something like 2 rapiers with shatter rounds for the same points.

 

 

Anyways I think we've gone far past comparing two units to debating the surrounding structure of the list styles and metas lol. I think seekers can definitely have their place, but I really do find it hard to wrap my head around the Proteus over a rhino or pod in decapitation strike.

[MichaelCarmine]

Quoting "Placing disembarked Models"

 

" - The model can then make a normal move... ...but it must end its move wholly within 6" of the Access Point it disembarked from..."

 

so sadly no, no more than 6 inches from the hatch.

 

Nono, i just wrote you CAN use it this way, and you CAN get a third Lascannon =]

I myself run it without anything but a dozer blade at the moment ^^ and thats the cheapest armor 14 all araound Transport you can get. ^^

I jused to run it in combination with a Damocles, 5 Pods and a Flyer to get 2+ rerollable reserves pinpointing within 24inches... good times =]

 

Thats all options you CAN get from just one Armylist Entry!

 

Yeah, dropping Leviathans are a bit shunned in my Meta-Area... mostly because of me xD and i rarely see one with a pod at events around here.

 

It doesn't "stop" barrage, never said that. it is one of the best los-blockers you can have, much better and more durable than a rhino ever could aspire to be. so I usually drive it that i block most of the enemy los on the seekers, so mostly only their target can see them.

If artillery tries to shoot my seekers, the would have to fire blind (most of the time, spotters not mentioned). Even when you lay the template on the raider to get full BS, after i disembarked 6 inches, you rarely get one seeker by spilling over, youd have to be lucky to scatter ofer to the seekers. ;)

 

Well ok, i misunderstood you, i thought of comparing combi-plasma Seekers to combi-plasma MDs. =]

If your using the flamers, of course they make more damage, but definitely get charged from the survivers and get wiped (most likely).

With Combi-Plasma you have a good chanse of staying out of combat in the following phase just due to better Range on Plas.

 

 

I was merely stating what each of them is able to achieve without/after using plasma. 

and i had a few games where it was unwise to unload plasma in the first turn, because of incomming reserves, or just because i could kill the target without using plasma. (10 shots Str 5 ap 2 Shred rounds at a 5 man Jump-honour guard with praetor out of cover at 16 inches was enough. =])

 

you don't destroy the rhino with your atillery, you destroy it with your medium AT weapons, such as Kheres Mortis Dreads, Stormkannon Leviathans, Autocannons, Heavy Bolters, Multilasers, Rapiers with shattershells... and then you center your artillery over the troops, or just fury the heck out of them =]

 

The nerv hit him so hard, the events tend to give him custom rules so he can at least fire his cannons without a disadvantage xD but you see lasrifle sections without transports nonetheless!

 

nah,matter of fact, i didn't have much problems with the big dudes, swarmed them with my assault units and meltabombed/radnaded/lightningclawed them to death.. ad a good bit of loss on the charge i might admit though. but the real problem was the tallax and ursarax, as you just cannot get enough attacks out to kill a 9 man ursarax-squad on the charge, even with charging Dark Furys. i killed about 4 and the last 5 hacked my dark furys to pieces with str. 10 fists and str. 5 claws... not funny at all! xD

 

 

I would reccomend yust trying it once for fun =] Isn't always about the numbers! ;]

 

/sign =]

Really depends on the surrounding Meta!

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm just starting up a small Raven Guard force. Is the bespoke RoW, Decapitation Strike, a good way to field the army?

[MichaelCarmine]

Well, if you love DropPods - Yessum!

Also Reroll who goes/deploys first.

Also also Preffered Enemy IC, which gives you reroll 1s on Hit and Wound rolls on ICs and every squad containing one.

 

In my opinion, one of the best RoWs out there!

[WrathOfTheLion]

I love drop pods, so it looks like that's what I'll be working towards.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The biggest downside to decapitation strike is one shared by a lot of the legion specific ones; you can trend away from well balanced lists and often end up a little heavy in certain areas, like anti infantry for example.

 

If there's any takeaways from the discussion between myself and Michaelcarmine it's that you need to have some flexibility in both targets to present and weapons to deal with different targets. You don't want to offer only infantry as targets and only have plasma guns if you come across a guy who likes heavier armour and transports.

[The Scorpion]

I'm just starting up a small Raven Guard force. Is the bespoke RoW, Decapitation Strike, a good way to field the army?

I think "Recon Company" is underrated with Raven Guard and better than "Decapitation Strike".

 

The bonus of the RoW synergizes extremely well with the Raven Guard rules.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm fond of Liberation Force myself.

 

Giving everything Zealot for a turn has swung games in my favor when my opponent didn't plan for it.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

I'm just starting up a small Raven Guard force. Is the bespoke RoW, Decapitation Strike, a good way to field the army?

I think "Recon Company" is underrated with Raven Guard and better than "Decapitation Strike".

 

The bonus of the RoW synergizes extremely well with the Raven Guard rules.

 

You're right, its a cool RoW, but i wouldn't call it "better", since your bonusses only count for the first Game-Turn.

Whereas the Decap-boni helps you throughout the game.

That makes it the better "general-purpose RoW" in my oppinion ! =]

 

Recon gives you cheap infil/scouting troop choices, which is nice - but you have to take a third compulsory troops-choice, which cancels the real benefit (in my eyes).

I do like this RoW against mechanicum though - spamming Recon squads, and shroud-bombing the   out of dem robots! xD

...You have to hope for minimum to none "djinn-sight" troops for this to work,of course ^^

 

I've found, that the ability to drop in troops and get preffered enemy IC (and squads containing ICs) outweighs Shrouded for the first game Turn.

[MichaelCarmine]

I'm fond of Liberation Force myself.

 

Giving everything Zealot for a turn has swung games in my favor when my opponent didn't plan for it.

Will try this, when i have my Militia ready! =]

With fearless cannonfodd..., i mean resolute allys by my side!

[SkimaskMohawk]

The thing with recon company is that recons are not well priced and have an I'll defined role, while also preventing terminators (a very efficient scoring unit), their dedicated transports and any non-reserve heavy support like Scorpii, Medusas and laser vindicators. And then ya, shroud only lasts for one turn. So you have to weigh if a minimum of 300 points for 15 models and blocking off other scoring and heavy support options is worth it compared to the flexibility of pods and the ongoing buff of preferred enemy.

 

Liberation force is shattered legions only, so not really as easy to look at, as there's way crazier shattered legion builds, which is why it's permission only to start with.

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

I'm fond of Liberation Force myself.

 

Giving everything Zealot for a turn has swung games in my favor when my opponent didn't plan for it.

Will try this, when i have my Militia ready! =]

With fearless cannonfodd..., i mean resolute allys by my side!

I also have plans to add some Therion Cohort to my army. As well as some Mechanicum with heavily kitbashed and converted models to be the Kiavahran Tech Guilds.

[suxdavide]

Still no news, no leaks and no official exemplary battle unit for us :(