Unknown Dread Designs?

[Nomus Sardauk]

Hello everyone, apologies if this isn't the right place for this but I was browsing Forge World's glorious Horus Heresy range (specifically the Elites section) when I noticed something that caught my interest. At the bottom of the blurb for the Contemptor Dreadnought there's a bit of text that reads thus:

 

"These advantages over the Lucifer and Castraferrum patterns mean that the Contemptor is constantly in high demand."

 

Lucifer and Castraferrum patterns? Has anyone ever heard of these before? I remember there were three dread types back in the Rogue Trader days and the Contemptor was one of them but I don't recall the other two, so are these "new", previously unheard-of designs or am I just being dumb again?

 

Also, seeing as it makes mention of them could this possibly mean these patterns could make a comeback as the Contemptor did? And if so, would that be good or bad?

What do you guys think?

[Lord Commander Scrymgeour]

Are the other two other names for the "classic" and venerable dreads?

[Aqui]

Besides the Contemptor "Chuck" Dread, the other two variants from the Rogue Trader Era are:

Furibundus "Furi"

Deredeo "Eddy"

I've never heard of the Lucifer and Castraferrum ones before. I must admit, I'm quite interested in what they are

[Furio]

Lucifer could refer to the Lucifer Pattern from the Blood Angels which allows them to be Faster than normal Vehicles. Would be Awesome if Blood Angels gets a super fast Contemptor tho :D

[Leif Bearclaw]

One of them might be, but the two kind of regular dread atm are the Mark IV (that's the one with the visible head) and the Mark V (GW kit). I think it's probably the case that they're two marks of the same type, and that's probably one of the two mentioned in the Contemptor fluff. My money would be on the Lucifer.

 

That means we may get a Castaferrum at some point, possibly later in the Heresy as the Legions are forced to fall back on older tech. Of course I may be wrong about the current dread being the Lucifer, in which case we may get 2 new dread chassis at some point. Which, as a massive fan of all things dreadnought (aside from their rather lacklustre rules) , would make me rather happy.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Are the other two other names for the "classic" and venerable dreads?

One of them might be, but the two kind of regular dread atm are the Mark IV (that's the one with the visible head) and the Mark V (GW kit). I think it's probably the case that they're two marks of the same type, and that's probably one of the two mentioned in the Contemptor fluff. My money would be on the Lucifer.

I think the "regular" Dreadnoughts type are called Mars Pattern as I remember when I was reading up on the Space Wolves Contemptor it was saying how the Contemptors always had a dark reputation with the Wolves and that they prefered to use the "Mars Pattern". So given Bjorn the Fell-handed has been around since the Heresy and is a "regular" Dreadnought, logic would suggest he's a Mars Pattern.

TL;DR: No, I don't think regular and venerable dreads are these Lucifer and Castraferrum patterns.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Are the other two other names for the "classic" and venerable dreads?

>One of them might be, but the two kind of regular dread atm are the Mark IV (that's the one with the visible head) and the Mark V (GW kit). I think it's probably the case that they're two marks of the same type, and that's probably one of the two mentioned in the Contemptor fluff. My money would be on the Lucifer.

I think the "regular" Dreadnoughts type are called Mars Pattern as I remember when I was reading up on the Space Wolves Contemptor it was saying how the Contemptors always had a dark reputation with the Wolves and that they prefered to use the "Mars Pattern". So given Bjorn the Fell-handed has been around since the Heresy and is a "regular" Dreadnought, logic would suggest he's a Mars Pattern.

TL;DR: No, I don't think regular and venerable dreads are these Lucifer and Castraferrum patterns.

So it does, my bad.

Oh well, that just means we have 2 potential chassis. Now we just need FW to give us awesome models for them....

[depthcharge12]

It would be just my luck that now that I ordered my contemptor dreadnought, FW would put up another one!

 

 

Well I can tell you gentlemen, history repeats itself, so expect a new dreadnought design soon lol

[Jareddm]

Don't quote me on this because I don't have my book in front of me, and will edit this post tonight to confirm but...

 

According to Imperial Armour Vol 2 2nd ed, the "modern" dreads, both Mk IV and V are Castraferrum.  It states that while the Contemptor is a better dreadnought, in terms of overall combat potential, the type of power supply it uses is insanely difficult to repair and maintain, and downright impossible to replace in the aftermath of the Heresy.  The Castraferrum became the standard because of its comparatively simpler power supply, which works off the same technical principles as the power supply for the rhino-family of vehicles.

[SteelPaladin]

I'm at work so I don't have my copy on hand, but I think that the Furibundus chassis is mentioned in Extermination. In the Imperial Fists section, IIRC.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Don't quote me on this because I don't have my book in front of me, and will edit this post tonight to confirm but...

 

According to Imperial Armour Vol 2 2nd ed, the "modern" dreads, both Mk IV and V are Castraferrum.  It states that while the Contemptor is a better dreadnought, in terms of overall combat potential, the type of power supply it uses is insanely difficult to repair and maintain, and downright impossible to replace in the aftermath of the Heresy.  The Castraferrum became the standard because of its comparatively simpler power supply, which works off the same technical principles as the power supply for the rhino-family of vehicles.

You're right, just checked my copy. I wish GW/FW would employ a fluff editor, as both you and SanguiniusReborn are right. The Mk IV and V are Mars pattern accroding to the current IA Apocalypse, and IA2 2nd ed says it's Castaferrum. Futile I know, but would some consistency be too much to ask from them?

 

Oh, well there's still hope for a Lucifer I guess.

[Nomus Sardauk]

 

Don't quote me on this because I don't have my book in front of me, and will edit this post tonight to confirm but...

 

According to Imperial Armour Vol 2 2nd ed, the "modern" dreads, both Mk IV and V are Castraferrum.  It states that while the Contemptor is a better dreadnought, in terms of overall combat potential, the type of power supply it uses is insanely difficult to repair and maintain, and downright impossible to replace in the aftermath of the Heresy.  The Castraferrum became the standard because of its comparatively simpler power supply, which works off the same technical principles as the power supply for the rhino-family of vehicles.

You're right, just checked my copy. I wish GW/FW would employ a fluff editor, as both you and SanguiniusReborn are right. The Mk IV and V are Mars pattern accroding to the current IA Apocalypse, and IA2 2nd ed says it's Castaferrum. Futile I know, but would some consistency be too much to ask from them?

 

Oh, well there's still hope for a Lucifer I guess.

 

Unfortunately trying to sort out GW and FW's fluff inconsistencies, even with an entire department dedicated to the task, would be like trying to untie the Gordian Knot with just one pinkie finger, it's just ain't happening.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Don't quote me on this because I don't have my book in front of me, and will edit this post tonight to confirm but...

According to Imperial Armour Vol 2 2nd ed, the "modern" dreads, both Mk IV and V are Castraferrum. It states that while the Contemptor is a better dreadnought, in terms of overall combat potential, the type of power supply it uses is insanely difficult to repair and maintain, and downright impossible to replace in the aftermath of the Heresy. The Castraferrum became the standard because of its comparatively simpler power supply, which works off the same technical principles as the power supply for the rhino-family of vehicles.

You're right, just checked my copy. I wish GW/FW would employ a fluff editor, as both you and SanguiniusReborn are right. The Mk IV and V are Mars pattern accroding to the current IA Apocalypse, and IA2 2nd ed says it's Castaferrum. Futile I know, but would some consistency be too much to ask from them?

Oh, well there's still hope for a Lucifer I guess.

Unfortunately trying to sort out GW and FW's fluff inconsistencies, even with an entire department dedicated to the task, would be like trying to untie the Gordian Knot with just one pinkie finger, it's just ain't happening.

At this point, I'd take an Alexander solution, 'from now on this is the correct fluff, all future fluff must conform with this'.

On the other hand, with their current staff, that would leave abominations like Clan Raaukan canon.

I made myself sad .

[Jareddm]

For a more optimistic approach, the two pattern names might not be mutually exclusive.  I imagine during the Heresy there would've been lots of designs that could all be considered "Mars-pattern".  Afterall, It is a Mars pattern adaptable thermic reactor that the Castraferrum dreads uses.  In modern 40k, forge worlds tend to only have one particular design for a piece of equipment.  Their design.  Thus patterns get named after the forgeworld.  But like the Mortis-pattern dreads, there do exist sub-patterns that would be classified separately by both the chasis and weapon layout.

[AGPO]

Look at it this way, there are Mars and Lucius pattern Warhounds which look pretty different, but they're both identifiably Warhounds. The tech priests tasked with the building of items as rare and important as titans and dreadnoughts are likely to be true artificiers with their own stylistic idiosyncrasies which they pass on to their aprentices. Add to this the fact that every technology in 40k is produced by rote with little understanding as to why certain methods are used. These differences would only become entrenched down the millenia, and could lead to different forge worlds producing very different results from the same patterns.

[Lucien Eilam]

A couple of years ago Forge World showed some concept sketches of something that looked like an update of the Space Crusade ED-209 style Chaos Dreadnought. Maybe that's the Lucifer. IA2v2 does call it "unhallowed".

 

[Leif Bearclaw]

So much hope....

[Atia]

Also the first Edition of Epic (Space Marine) has the space crusade dreads as chaos dreads and the contemptor as loyal dreads

 

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85125&d=1269139757

[Greyall]

@Eilam: Those seem pretty close to the Decimator, especially the one on the right.

[Lucien Eilam]

The one on the right could have become the Decimator, yes.

 

The one on the left doesn't really look like anything that's ever been in 40k except the Space Crusade/Space Marine Dread, maybe with a hint of the Brass Scorpion aesthetic.

 

Obviously it might be nothing, just to point out that there is already another in-universe Dreadnought design, that Forge World may have considered doing something with it, and "unhallowed" arguably fits a model that's previously only ever been associated with Chaos.