New IG and HWS/HWT and Air Cav

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Greetings Astra...........oh they heck with it we're IG and that's all there is to it.

 

Ok so now that I got that off my chest. About a year or two ago when Vendetta spam was rampant (probably still is I just haven't run into it) I posted on here asking about Air Cav with friends.

What I came up with using this forums great minds is a list of about four to six flyers all "coming in to rescue" a stranded platoon or two.

 

I thought this was a cool idea and have been working at the speed of snail to start on this army. However the new book dropped and I have yet to buy it (thank you real world stuff) and while I see much hasn't changed I am wondering what wonderful new tricks have you all come up with?

 

My thoughts are having maximum of two Vend's (if I even bring them) and just going all Valk's with Vets or Storm Troopers (I know I know) in each bird.

 

Lastly I have seen very little as far as Heavy Weapons Squads or teams. Do people just normally fit them into their blob squads? Does anyone line them up in cover and just have a ton of dakka being flung about?

 

My thoughts are Autocannons (because I'm in love with them) and maybe a mortar squad or two leaving my infantry to actually have flamers or perhaps grenade launchers and keep them in a squad of 20 - 30 (two groups or one?) and then the heavy weapons opening up on anything that moves starting at 48" and hoping to put large holes in things.

 

Let the Valk's come on with some plasma or melta toting vets/Storm Troopers and Apocalypse Now has got nothing on me.

 

Anyway enough ranting please what are you tactics and thoughts on Air Cav and Heavy Weapons Squads and just Heavy weapons as a whole with the new book....................

 

Help me bolter and chainsword your my only hope.

[Kilofix]

Air Cav:

 

Not that much has changed with the new book. You're still limited by FoC (until 7th ed) so you can't spam like 6 Vs unless:

You use Storm Trooper Codex / Formation - if you want special orders.

You use Inquisitors and Acolytes List - if you want to drop CC infantry (Crusaders, DCA) or a whole lot of special weapons (using Acolytes, Servitors, Jokaero).

You use Elysian Drop Troop List - if you want half your force to come in on Turn One.

 

 

Heavy Weapons:

 

I usually prefer to embed my Heavy Weapons within my Infrantry Squads so that they are less likely to be specifically targetted and killed. I.e. I partially use my other Infrantry as Ablative. The only time I use a Heavy or Special separately is if I'm using Mortar Squads hidden behind some Fortification (which I do use in tandem quite often now actually).

[Frater Cornelius]

Be careful tossing around that many flyers. You know that when you can not place a flyer, it crashes. Second, people are all looking for anti air and the top codecies have very good intercept AA capablities. Also, I do not play flyers^^

 

Having said that, the Vendetta is still a very potent tool for AA and AT, you just should not spam it anymore due to cost increases. Valkyries take over the infantry slaughter, but they too can help with AA and AT with their missles. I would put vets into Valks and scions into Vends, seeing as I wouldnt want to drop an expensive scion squad right into the enemy and hope it lives to do something useful. I'd use them a 5man suicide squads with whatever weapons you need in their vends.

With that setup you NEED either the Officer of the Fleet or the aegis com relay to make sure your flyers come on in one batch, thus making it harder for the opponent to deal with them. Coming 1 by 1 will be their death sentence against most armies that sport AA.

I would not field that many flyers now, they stay in reserve and endanger you of being tabled and they cost a lot. 1st turn fire power is important and with too many flyers you are missing that advantage that IG thrives upon.

 

As for the HWS... I do not like them. If in a blob they will get snap shots most of the time because a platoon usually moves forwards. If split up, they die like flies because of w2 and t3. Eldar s6 stuff and hell, even multilasers will force a morale test after 1 wound, which they will fail most likely and run. The only heavy weapons I use are either in the regular infantry squads in the platoon which, in my army, usually camp home objectives, or I put them on cover camping veterans. Along with my mech support that usually does it. Can not comment on a blob setup.

Instead of the HWS in my platoon I put the Sabre Defense Battery with Lascannons. It's very potent at AA and AT with skyfire, intercept and twin-linked. It also counts as artillery so infinitely tougher than HWS. They are FW however, so I don't know your opinion on this.

 

The heavy weapons I put on my squads are, in case of my platoon, AC because the higher amount of shots balances out the low BS and s7 is very potent these days. On my veterans I put missle launcher, but that's rather rare, they usually advance.

 

On a final note, if you like to play air-cav, why not try the Elysian Drop Troops in IA3 2ed? They can use valks as dedicated transports, so you can use them without squadrons and lower the risk of being unable to place the flyers.

[Kierdale]

Though I know my esteemed colleague WarriorFish loves them, mortar HWTs are somewhat outshone in the new codex by the Wyvern (only 5pts more and comes with a lot of special rules, not least Ignores Cover).

[Andhil]

But then again, Mortars don't take up a Heavy slot, can't get killed by a single Meltagun/Lascannon, and are scoring! So there's some advantages beyond Damage output (at which the Wyvern indeed excels!)

I like my HWS. I've got one of each weapon setup. Only the HB's go into Infantry Squads. The HWS are actually pretty resilient when placed inside/behind terrain/fortification, and near to a Regimental Banner. They'll hardly ever run. Use GtG when needed. You've got Get Back in the Fight for a reason!

Also, I never blob my IS' because of the prevalence of CC/super shooty horde units in my meta (Daemons, Nids, Orks) So I'd rather not lose 3-5 squads in one turn of Combat/Shooting.

The main thing that ruined my Air Cav Vets is the reduced Capacity of the Vendetta. So I'll be needing a second Valkyrie.

[march10k]

I'll be taking the air assault formation from C:MT.  Valks are still kinda "meh," but as always quantity has a quality of its own...four of them, even at 500 points, is pretty good, and costed maybe a little high...the formation special rules make it worthwhile.  You get scoring glory boys and rerolls out the ying yang...which you don't get with C:AM stormies.  The downside is it's a major investment in points AND $$$, the HQ requirements seem like a tax, although I make the best of it with four BS4 plasma guns.  I'd be much happier with the formation rules and "only" 275 (for a valk with 10x with dual melta) times three.  775 for 30 scoring stormtroopers in air cav mode would be awesome.  Instead, I get 15 scoring, 5 nonscoring, and a commie, plus a fourth bird, for about 960, IIRC.  And I'd be happier with the IG orders, FRFSRF would be boss with scoring hellguns.

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, as Andhil said Mortars have scoring and being part of a Platoon going for them but sadly the Wyvern is mostly better overall. HWSs are still viable though, just that you shouldn't go overboard with them so a few squads is enough. Otherwise as has been mentioned generally not too much has changed for your plans - the only real significance is the Vendetta price increase (not undue) and transport decrease (annoying).

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

So Warriorfish. You say a "few" squads in a 2K point game how many would you bring? I was thinking something like three squads of Autocannons and one or two squads of your beloved Mortars for suppression support on something charging the lines if you will.

 

Thanks for the input so far everyone I really wont bring more than two vend's at the most and probably wont even put a squad in them. Fire support and Lascannon boat only I think.

How many platoons do you guys think I should bring for this? One walking blob to move forward? A gunline platoon for the HWS and then the two - four birds with vets?

[WarriorFish]

I tend to think of it in Platoon terms, so it'd be two or three HWSs per Platoon at most :) Apart from generally considering them as self contained units it's a good way to approach it anyway I feel as it means you have enough troopers to help protect them and also to capture and assist in the killing the HWSs will hopefully be doing.

 

Even at 2000pts you could probably get most of your trooper requirements from a single Platoon, maybe with some Vets added in for variety and additional boots so a gunline Platoon holding the line as Vets roar in overhead could work nicely.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

For the gunline platoon do you think it should be a full set of 5 Infantry squads plus the HWS? Or would you split it one blob of say 20? and another of 30? Please keep in mind I have no "meta" and like the "all comers" approach. Also my experience playing guard was borrowing a friends and doing an entire Air Cav army back in the middle of 5th. I still had space marines on the brain and he stated "In 10 years of playing I've never seen guard played so aggressively." I had about 80 - 90% casualties but it was a lot of fun either way.

 

So Autocannons seem to be everyone's love child and I think for horde thinning just regular squads and Valk's should work. Do you guys think Lascannons or just melta on the vets? I will post the list I had from earlier shortly. Thanks for the help so far.

[WarriorFish]

It's funny the number of times people seem to be astonished when facing offensive Guard, makes me wonder what all these Guard players are doing out there! Of course part of that astonishment also comes from the drubbing they've just been handed ;)

 

At 2000pts 5 infantry squads is a good idea, you can blob them as you see fit depending on your opponent/mission/etc. As for Vets melta is always a good plan if you want them to get close as BS4 is a great firing platform.

[Andhil]

Eh, parking your guard behind an Aegis is a really easy way to keep your horde of cheap men alive, so it's a quick, and easy way of playing. It's only awkward when your Shooting phase takes longer than your opponents entire turn. But remember children, if this isn't the case, you aren't playing IG!

[Kilofix]

It's funny the number of times people seem to be astonished when facing offensive Guard, makes me wonder what all these Guard players are doing out there! Of course part of that astonishment also comes from the drubbing they've just been handed

At 2000pts 5 infantry squads is a good idea, you can blob them as you see fit depending on your opponent/mission/etc. As for Vets melta is always a good plan if you want them to get close as BS4 is a great firing platform.

I'm just mad that we lost a couple of Outflank options in the latest dex (Raheem, Harker). I actually did use them quite a bit.

[WarriorFish]

GW giveth and GW taketh away... overall I think we got a net gain. Maybe not a big one, but enough to tip the scales :)

[march10k]

It's funny the number of times people seem to be astonished when facing offensive Guard, makes me wonder what all these Guard players are doing out there! Of course part of that astonishment also comes from the drubbing they've just been handed

You mean like when my opponent runs into nine chimeras next week, and no static shooting to aim his assault at? ;)

[WarriorFish]

Exactly! :P Every time you field a different Guard list a fairy that believes Guard only stand and shoot dies :lol: