[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Erren]

So between reading this thread and looking through the Army List forum, I’ve seen very little discussion of Alpharius. I want to start up a little ~2000 point force that includes him. Any pointers? I was leaning towards an Anvilus droppod with some veterans as a delivery vehicle for him. I’m not particularly excited to buy Dynat, despite his clear tactical utility.

 

Edit: I’d probably play 1500 without Alpharius or 3000 with Cult or Mechanicum allies.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Erren

[Fajita Fan]

You mean Omegon? 

 

Anyway you can just convert a Dynat (that's all I'm doing) and I'm going to make an Alpharius from a primaris with a mk4 head.  Primarchs are Lords of War and not everyone squeezes them into lists from what I've seen unless you're doing that Rite of War where he's your HQ.  

[Cadmus Tyro]

  On 11/30/2018 at 9:29 PM, Erren said:

So between reading this thread and looking through the Army List forum, I’ve seen very little discussion of Alpharius. I want to start up a little ~2000 point force that includes him. Any pointers? I was leaning towards an Anvilus droppod with some veterans as a delivery vehicle for him. I’m not particularly excited to buy Dynat, despite his clear tactical utility.

Edit: I’d probably play 1500 without Alpharius or 3000 with Cult or Mechanicum allies.

Alpharius, I’ve used him a couple of times now and spent some time considering how to utilise him. I’m finding the XXth legion require a considered approach and Alpharius is no exception.

 

Here’s a few of my thoughts so far:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Rite of War - Alpharius allows you to seize the initiative on a 4+. This is a massive bonus, but you can add to it further by choosing a RoW that allows you to re-roll this result. “Coils of the hydra” works well here, you can re-roll the dice for first turn or the seize roll (choose whichever suits the situation at the time). The troops tax at 3000pts for this RoW isn’t an issue.

 

The second RoW to consider with Alpharius (perhaps more usable at lower points) is the “recon company” RoW. This gives you even more potential for first turn as you can choose to re-roll both the dice for first turn and your seize roll. Recon squads are limiting, but are a good way of getting melta bombs into your list.

 

Finally, and controversially, there is some debate about using alternate force organisation charts with RoW (I’m in the camp of not allowing this). If this is allowed, using the Onslaught RoW forces your opponent to go first, gives you access to a second LoW choice and with one of the above RoW, a 75% chance to seize. This probably won’t net you many friends, but we are the Alpha legion.....

 

2. Army Composition - Alpharius is a huge force multiplier with preferred enemy. But this only affects units with the “legion astartes: alpha legion” rule. To take advantage of this my force will probably lean towards an infantry focus with vehicle support (mainly transports). Rapiers, particularly quad mortars (although I don’t take phosphex unless my opponent is heavily competitive, even the XXth have their limits) are a really helpful tool. They are resilient and benefit from both your “mutable tactic” and Alpharius.

 

3. Compulsory HQ - with the above RoW you will have to take at least one HQ. Using HQs that rely on their warlord trait for utility is, IMHO, a waste of points. So Autilon Skorr and Armillus Dynat when used with Alpharius won’t have access to their warlord traits, which makes Skorr useless. Dynat retains his most useful rule, but I still feel he is over costed, especially when used with Alpharius. Although, perhaps he is still usable in an “Orbital Assault” RoW, but I have no experience here.

 

Instead, I would consider using a cheap character that brings synergistic benefits with your list. Vigilators, Siege Breaker, Forge lords, chaplains, legion champions etc.

 

4. One of many - this is perhaps the most difficult rule to master. It has the potential to place Alpharius in a strong position on the board, but once deployed your mobility is then limited. Also, the longer Alpharius is off the table, the less opportunity you have to benefit from preferred enemy (as he has to be on the board, so consider the affects of transports as well here). There is also a strong possibility of the unit he is hiding in being destroyed before he is revealed, which will further delay his arrival.

 

Personally, in a coils list I have three mobile units to put Alpharius in. Two Infiltrating tactical squads in rhinos or an assault squad. Unit deployment is key, keep your opponent guessing with a plan to reveal on turn two (so you need to be in position at the end of your first turn). The recon company list provides some more first turn survivability for your infiltrating/scouting squads.

 

Deciding where to deploy Alpharius is very dependant on your opponents force. Keep him away from enemy primarchs but remember he is still potent in combat. Armour bane also gives you reasonable anti armour in combat.

 

Finally, don’t forget he has a cognis signum, so have a strong shooting unit near to take advantage of this turn two. Also when deciding on his deployment, consider the deployment of any deep strike reserves (lightning strike fighter) and the line of sight for any artillery (cognis signum includes the benefits of a nuncio vox).

 

5. His affects on reserves are a nice bonus but don’t be distracted by it. The additional movement afforded to outflanking units is a nice bonus, but the rule that brings on your reserves in place of your opponents, is incredibly situational.

 

I’m sure others have things to add to the above! I’ve had great success with him against custodes (more so than a Typhon), but I think he takes time to master, I’m still learning to use him.

 

Cadmus

[Imren]

Apart from many other primarchs, Alpharius is an army buffer, not a close combat monster, which means you get more value out of him at large points lists, Don't go toe to toe with him against other primarchs, he will most likely not survive close combat with other combat oriented primarchs (angron, rob girlyman, vulkan, horus, fulgrim etc) instead, you use him to for the preferred enemy (everything) anong other buffs. wear down the enemy primarchs and/or lord of war options before you charge in with Alpharious, you want him to survive the game throughout so that you get to use his buffs every turn of the game.

[Fajita Fan]

I was working on a 2000pt infantry list at work that went something like this with points left over.  I know it's not good, just fluffy with a couple of infiltrating squads and a unit of termies dropping somewhere to shoot.

Dynat

 

Sabateur

 

15 Tacticals/extra CCW      <- will infiltrate 

PF/Artificer/Meltabomb Sgt

 

15 Tacticals/extra CCW      <- will infiltrate 

PF/Artificer/Meltabomb Sgt

 

10 Tacticals

PF/Artificer/Meltabomb Sgt

Rhino

 

5x Support with meltas

Rhino

 

Multimelta Landspeeder

 

Multimelta Landspeeder

 

Multimelta Landspeeder

 

5 Vets with power weapons  (roll with Dynat)

Rhino 

 

8x Tyrant Siege Termies (deepstrike)

[Gorgoff]

As a IW player I recommand not to deep strike the Tyrants. Infiltration is way better.

[Charlo]

  On 12/2/2018 at 7:45 AM, Gorgoff said:

As a IW player I recommand not to deep strike the Tyrants. Infiltration is way better.

Yep. You get to choose your lane of fire, will most likely go first with AL and can start shooting from T1.

[Fajita Fan]

Why did I think terminator armor can’t infiltrate?

[Charlo]

  On 12/2/2018 at 12:33 PM, Fajita Fan said:

Why did I think terminator armor can’t infiltrate?

 

Raven Guard ones can't? :P

[Imren]

  On 12/2/2018 at 1:42 AM, Fajita Fan said:

I was working on a 2000pt infantry list at work that went something like this with points left over.  I know it's not good, just fluffy with a couple of infiltrating squads and a unit of termies dropping somewhere to shoot.

 

Dynat

 

Sabateur

 

15 Tacticals/extra CCW      <- will infiltrate 

PF/Artificer/Meltabomb Sgt

 

15 Tacticals/extra CCW      <- will infiltrate 

PF/Artificer/Meltabomb Sgt

 

10 Tacticals

PF/Artificer/Meltabomb Sgt

Rhino

 

5x Support with meltas

Rhino

 

Multimelta Landspeeder

 

Multimelta Landspeeder

 

Multimelta Landspeeder

 

5 Vets with power weapons  (roll with Dynat)

Rhino 

 

8x Tyrant Siege Termies (deepstrike)

 

 

 

I'd recommend to deep strike plasma gun support squad instead of having a melta squad ride around in a rhino.

 

You already have very mobile multimeltas (on the javelins) and also all the meltabombs on the infantry squads will give you plenty of antivehicle weapons.

 

If/when that Rhino containing melta support gets taken out early game where you didn't have the chance to position them to shoot enemy vehicles at melta-range, then your melta support guys will be stranded foot slogging with 6" melta range. And believe me this is what an opponent will focus on early game since taking out a Rhino is fairly easy.

 

Armoured ceramite is more prevalent among popular 30k vehicles than 40k, so you generally have less use of melta-rule in 30k.

 

So take a plasma squad instead and have hem cooperate with the javelins, where the javelins can shoot infantry carrying vehicles from a longer distance, and then the plasma squad takes out the infantry squad inside (preferrably within rapiud fire range).

 

If the opponent deploys infantry squad without transport (especially terminators) then you can independantly deep strike the plasma squad to take those out.

[Fajita Fan]

Good thoughts, I was just messing around with the models I have and by the time I finish this there'll be a new ruleset and new army lists at the speed I finish projects.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Plasma Seekers instead of Plasma Support Squad please.

[GosbosGsy]

Greetings Legionnaires! I recently picked up a Betrayal at Calth (before the lack of supply pushes the prices up further...) and I intend to paint them as the XX Legion because, well, there's no competition really. As FW stuff is so expensive I want to plan the army before I buy anything, so in preparation I read the whole of this thread. Yes, all 68 pages of it.

 

Around page 30-something, somebody suggested they might write a summary to help anyone coming to it fresh. As far as I can see that never happened, but having just read through twice that much I figured I might as well do it for the benefit of anyone else in my position! I haven't yet played a game in the AoD so have no opinions to add, so it would contain only the distilled wisdom of the legion masters.

 

I'll get round to it soon (there's quite a lot of it!) but in the meantime, I was wondering what the general consensus is on the use of Banestrike ammunition these days? In particular,

• Is Banestrike of any use to Veteral Tacticals now that they have lost the ability to take Sniper? Or is it too expensive?
• It was mentioned a while ago that it can be a good investment for Legion Terminators, thanks to their combi-bolters. Any opinions?
• Does it make Headhunters slightly more viable now that Veterans can't do the same job better, or are Seekers still the preferred choice?

Cheers!

[Unknown Legionnaire]

A Veteran Tactical squad with Banestrike rounds is indeed an option, especially if you run them cheap with no other special weapons attached.

... but even then, the Banestrike's AP 3 won't get past the opponents sergeant's artificer armour any better than a regular bolt shell.

In terms of performance they're sub-par to the specialist bolt rounds Seekers get, for example.

Non the less, I have used them on ten-strong Vet Tacs, and will do so again.

 

No idea about the Terminators really. Sure their combi-bolters are twin linked, but that doesn't make you wound your target any better, it only allows re-rolls to hit, so would not affect the Banestrike ammo in the slightest.

Also, I'm only using combi-plasma Cataphractii and / or Lernaeans. They get the job done.

 

As for the Headhunter question .... can of worms really. People will never come to terms over them.

You couldn't compare them directly to Vet Tacs before, and you surely cannot compare them to Seekers nowadays.

Vet Tacs could always be tailored to a high degree for the job you had in mind for them. And they still can be, even without the old 'Sniper' rule, which was hilariously unbalanced.

Seekers are a pure alpha strike (pun intended) shooting unit. Fire and forget. Or better: fire and then dump them on an objective so they can keep on using Kraken rounds.

Headhunters are a dedicated melee unit (in my book).

[Charlo]

Headhunters do their best work going after enemy marines with no additional defences, e.g. anything T4 3+, while this is a lot of targets, as UL says they just bounce off anything else.

 

Another issue is they have fairly decent CC but can't shoot their Bolters and charge due to rapid fire, if they could they'd be kinda okay through weight of dice. Instead you can give them something like Combi Flamers/ Meltas and go for total anti infantry or a bit of armour busting.

[AlphaOmegon]

The only way to get a Venom Sphere Harness is through a Cataphractii Praetor correct?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Actually, if memory serves me right, only the Harrower has access to a venom sphere harness. Unless I'm missing a FAQ changing that.

[AlphaOmegon]

Dang ok let me go hunt that down

[Fallen11]

  On 1/6/2019 at 12:24 AM, Charlo said:

Headhunters do their best work going after enemy marines with no additional defences, e.g. anything T4 3+, while this is a lot of targets, as UL says they just bounce off anything else.

 

Another issue is they have fairly decent CC but can't shoot their Bolters and charge due to rapid fire, if they could they'd be kinda okay through weight of dice. Instead you can give them something like Combi Flamers/ Meltas and go for total anti infantry or a bit of armour busting.

 

Problem is, everything and their mother in heresy usually is designed to deal with T4 3+ for less pts usually or way more effective.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Fallen11

[Charlo]

  On 3/29/2019 at 1:56 PM, Fallen11 said:

 

  On 1/6/2019 at 12:24 AM, Charlo said:

Headhunters do their best work going after enemy marines with no additional defences, e.g. anything T4 3+, while this is a lot of targets, as UL says they just bounce off anything else.

 

Another issue is they have fairly decent CC but can't shoot their Bolters and charge due to rapid fire, if they could they'd be kinda okay through weight of dice. Instead you can give them something like Combi Flamers/ Meltas and go for total anti infantry or a bit of armour busting.

 

Problem is, everything and their mother in heresy usually is designed to deal with T4 3+ for less pts usually or way more effective.

 

But fluff :D

[strawberry fist]

Hopefully a quick question.

 

If I use coils of the hydra rite of war do I need to take rhino’s/ land raiders/ drop pods for every infantry unit I take such as heavy support squads, terminators, tactical squads and legion tactical support squads?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Either that, or you are literally forced to select 'Infiltrate' as your Mutable Tactic USR, or you could somehow bestow the ability to Deep Strike upon the unit (Dynat's warlord trait for example, etc.).

 

This is why Assault Squads are such a good choice for CotH, and also why Gal Vorbak make for a good 'Rewards of Treason' choice.

[strawberry fist]

Oh that’s good, I hadn’t linked mutable tactics to that rite of war.

 

I’m just thinking of using my blood Ravens as a heresy era chapter within a legion from the Legiones Astartes rules book which knocks thousand sons out but thought Alpha legion may be appropriate, what do you think???

[Lightbox]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm slowly being dragged into heresy and am going to do alpha legion as my traitor force. Though it's a big beast to get into and I'm unsure quite where to start with which way to go (besides getting regular marines).  

 

I was liking the idea of running a dreadclaw / droppod kind of list but would love if anyone has recommendations on units I should take a look at or ways to make that work. Ideally for 1000 points to begin with (a nice core that I can build up from)

 

Also does anyone have any links perhaps to good kitbashing or conversion guides for 30k? I quite enjoy my conversions and would love to see ideas of what can be done in that regard.

[Charlo]

So it depends if you want *all* drop pods or just one Dreadclaw? All drop pods you'll need s Rite of War (Orbital Assault) to run, but just one Dreadclaw you can include as a fast attack choice (or dedicated transport for some units!)

 

For 1000pts core I'd suggest just the Dreadclaw and aim for the following (quickly knocked it up in battlescribe) and using the Delegatus Rite of War: Chosen Duty to get veterans as troops:

 

Delegatus

-Power Fist

-Power Dagger

-Refractor Field

-Melta Bombs

 

Veteran Squad

9 guys

2 Melta Guns

3 Combi-Melta

3 Power Mauls

Artificer armour on sergeant

Vexilla

Veteran Tactic: Machine Killers

Rhino - Pintle Multi Melta

 

Veteran Squad

10 guys

2 Plasma Guns

Combi Plasma/ Artificer/ Power Dagger on sergeant

Veteran Tactic: Stalkers

 

Terminator Squad

2x Chainfist

Thunder Hammer and Power Dagger on sergeant

 

Dreadclaw transport