[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Terminus]

The Delegatus' Chosen Duty rite is probably better than Pride of the Legion if you aren't running Lords of War or spamming terminators. You can get an extra victory point just by having him survive.

[GreyCrow]

This is a good point about the Delegatus, especially if you're planning to field a Primarch later on. Saves points over the Praetor :p

 

I feel it's really appropriate for the Alpha Legion too, I'll look up how to make this work :D

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Consider this for a ZM unit;

 

Forgelord, Infiltrate Tactics (we'll ignore that RAW mess up, because FW don't know what they're doing), Power Axe, Rad Grenades, Meltabombs, Combat shield, cyber familiar, cortex controller = 150pts

 

5 Headhunters, Powerfist, Meltabomb, Inferno Pistol = 210pts

 

360pts

 

It's a unit which can go anywhere it needs, and has a BS5 preferred enemy reaction fire with Rad Grenades. Its majority Initiative is 4, and is effectively S5 because Rad grenade kick in the moment the charge is issued, with a Preferred Enemy. Roll a 4 or lower, and with 10 shots hitting on 2's, rerolling failed, and wounding on a 3+ (2+ vs squishy humans), with a reroll of 1's, and any 6's nixing 3+ Saves or better, which when they get in CC, have to go up against 8 3+ with reroll attacks, wounding on 4's with a reroll of 1's, ignoring 3+ saves and a potential lucky rend, followed by a Preferred Enemy WS5 S6~ Axe and a Preferred Enemy Power Fist.

 

On the assault they also have Hammer of Wrath because reasons.

 

You can also take a unit of Infiltrating Castellax in ZM, because why not?

 

Admittedly, 350 pts gets you 10 Seekers with Combi-weapons, so it's a moot point, but you don't get the CC ability, while 210pts is enough for 6 Seekers with Combi-Weapons, which may be more shooting happy.

Could you clarify what you meant with the infiltrate tactics RAW issue... Must have missed that in the dozens of previous pages. Feel like ive missed something major now and have been playing all wrong.

You can ignore that ramble, I was halfway through typing a post for coils of the hydra then had a rethink without changing that bit.

 

Long story short, coils requires you to have a DT, Infiltrate or DS to be selected as part of the list if infantry. Mutable Tactics is chosen after the list is made, when you roll for Warlord traits.

 

QED a non Jump Pack/Bike/jetbike AL HQ character that is not a Scout Armoured Vigilator cannot be taken, because they are infantry which cannot deep strike, do not have a DT (because it cannot be attached until deployment, it does not count to say it gets put with a unit with a DT) and it cannit Deep Strike.

 

There are many issues with Infiltrate that come from the FAQ writers sinply not writing the rules properly.

[Terminus]

Coils of the Hydra specifically calls out Infantry SQUADS, so has no effect on your HQ independent characters what-so-ever.

 

Although still, that rule is just written poorly. What does it mean to have "the ability to infiltrate"? If having the option to select mutable tactics: infiltrate counts as "the ability to infiltrate", then technically all Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) have the ability to infiltrate even if they choose another tactic because "option to infiltrate" == "ability to infiltrate", so this is a non-requirement. Even stuff that you could bring without Mutable tactics don't care, like Gal Vorbak (can deep strike), Thallax (can deep strike) or Castellax (not infantry).

 

Alternatively, the intent is that all squads that aren't terminators, assault marines, or headhunters require a dedicated transport. On the other hand, we have a number of rules query responses from Forge World saying that infantry squads can use Mutable Tactics: Infiltrate to fulfill the requirement, breaking the normal order of operations. If you can break the order of operations, then Dynat's Warlord Trait and Skorr's guaranted Master of Ambush Warlord trait can also fulfill this requirement, since they happen at the same time as Mutable Tactics.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Terminus

[GreyCrow]

You make a very good case there !

So, anything that isn't infantry doesn't need to be able to Inflltrate of Deep Strike, let's say I have a squad of Attack Bikes, then they would be able to be included in a Coils list because they aren't infantry.

 

Speaking of which, how would you judge Outriders, Attack Bikes and Jetbikes in an Alpha Legion 30k Army ?

I really feel that they can synergize superbly well with Mutable Tactics and Coils, being able te reposition and fast enough to keep up with the Mechanized infantry. Even of they are more expensive per wound than similarily equipped Support/Heavy Support squads, they're much more autonomous and not as much reliant on their transport to move them around.

 

In terms of Heavy Support options, what do you think can be a good fit for a very mobile Alpha Legion list ? I was thinking that the Sicaran or Sicaran Venators could be decent choices but because I haven't played them I can't say.

By the way I'm away from the rulebook this week end, but can they equip the Machine Spirit ?

 

Alternatively, what do you think of Predators armed only with their main gun and Machine Spirit without sponsoons or cheap heavy bolters for "just in case" situations ? Being able to move 12" and shoot their flamestorm or magna melta sounds cool on paper (and really fits the "fast armour") vibe that is talked about in the AL fluff.

[Capt. Tates]

Is there anyone smart enough and have enough time to summarise AL tactics?

[shaun03]

Attack bikes can be useful, they benefit from mutable tactics. I run them with MM good way to side and rear shots.

[v6v77]

How do we all like quad mortars. Got this list here

 

1 x Autilon Skorr

3 x tac squad - extra CC, arti, melta bomb

3 x apoth - augury

6 x quad mortar (2 units of 3)

1 x Pyroclasts- melta bombs

1 x Fire raptor - Reaper autocannons

2 x Whirlwind scorpius

 

Idea is the rapiers inf up and pop 2 AV12/13 a turn or lay some serious pain on light infantry/hordes. Scorpii mince ap3 and light AV. Tac squads get in your face with one unit maybe middle table to deter deep strike melta. Pyroclasts provide some versatile punch and can run with AL rules.

 

Thoughts would be appreciated.

Edited October 6, 2015 by v6v77

[xera32]

Buy rhinos for the tacs, you will need the speed for them if you need to reserve them, and the rhino itself can protect from enemy barrage weaponry. The apothecary won't help when you get hit by a scorpius or basilisk. I also don't think pyroclasts are that great, you don't get the +1 str on the flamers, so what you end up getting is a less deadly more durable support squad.

[Terminus]

You make a very good case there !

So, anything that isn't infantry doesn't need to be able to Inflltrate of Deep Strike, let's say I have a squad of Attack Bikes, then they would be able to be included in a Coils list because they aren't infantry.

 

Speaking of which, how would you judge Outriders, Attack Bikes and Jetbikes in an Alpha Legion 30k Army ?

I really feel that they can synergize superbly well with Mutable Tactics and Coils, being able te reposition and fast enough to keep up with the Mechanized infantry. Even of they are more expensive per wound than similarily equipped Support/Heavy Support squads, they're much more autonomous and not as much reliant on their transport to move them around.

 

In terms of Heavy Support options, what do you think can be a good fit for a very mobile Alpha Legion list ? I was thinking that the Sicaran or Sicaran Venators could be decent choices but because I haven't played them I can't say.

By the way I'm away from the rulebook this week end, but can they equip the Machine Spirit ?

 

Alternatively, what do you think of Predators armed only with their main gun and Machine Spirit without sponsoons or cheap heavy bolters for "just in case" situations ? Being able to move 12" and shoot their flamestorm or magna melta sounds cool on paper (and really fits the "fast armour") vibe that is talked about in the AL fluff.

I think Fast Attack is, appropriately enough, all about air support. Stormeagles and Dreadclaws for your assault transports, Fighters and Speeders for your anti-tank, Deathstorm for the lulz. The infantry options aren't as enticing.

 

We already discussed Seekers. Personally, the BS5 and one-target PE is cute, but I find them too expensive for just more T4 W1 Sv3+ dudes. For 15 points less than 5 Seekers with combi-plasmas, you can buy 5 scoring Support Marines with plasma guns and a rhino.

 

Outriders are interesting. Between Infiltrate, Scout, and their speed, they can target a unit with twin-linked rapid fire plasma guns on turn one pretty much anywhere on the table. Whether that's worth 45 points per Marine is up to you, because they are pretty much guaranteed to die immediately after (too many weapons that don't really care if your Marines are T4 or T5). Not the most competitive choice.

 

Attack Bikes' 2 wounds makes them a little more durable at just 5 points more per model with a multi-melta.The 30K version can get autocannons, which is interesting. You can make a more durable and mobile heavy support squad. 5 attack bikes with autocannons are 10 points less than an 8-strong heavy support squad with autocannons. You trade 3 autocannons for 2 extra wounds overall, T5, a 12" move, and using a less valuable FA slot instead of HS. May be worth a look if you see a lot of light armour.

 

Sky Hunters got a nice bump with artificer armour, but I still don't know if I like their rules or their dickbike models. Their "best" use as far as I can see is with Culverins to put out tons of S6/5 Ap4 fire, which I'm not sure is a role that needs filling.

 

Heavy support, again appropriately enough, is all about the big tanks (some of the flying variety :P). Scorpius to kill anything in power armour, Sicaran Battle Tanks/Venators to destroy light armour/super heavies, Deredeos to intercept alpha strikes, Fire Raptors to rule the skies, Assault Rams/Spartans for bigger and scarier assault transports, and of course the Kharybdis for the lulz.  Phosphex Medusa deserves an honorable mention, although now you can get that through Reductor allies.

 

Regarding the Predators, what you're describing are crappier and more expensive Hellhounds/Devil Dogs.

[Balthamal]

If you're taking barrage weaponry, tool up the squads with voxs because with the right placement you'll get LoS to everything on the board and being able to reduce the scatter can be massive

[Hesh Kadesh]

Deep Striking Tank Hunting meltas. Tank Hunting Praevians with Typhon and Medusa support.

 

Infiltrating/Outflanking Land Raider Achilles-Alphas. (Unsure if this works, because GW are incapable of fixing Infiltrate)

[Capt. Tates]

So Headhunters vs Seekers.

If Hunters can have combi-weapons (which I'm led to believe is a typo) then what's the best load out?

They have precision shot and banestrike, BS 5 and preferred enemy infantry.

Seekers are similar with precision shot and special ammo or banestrike with BS 5 and preffered enemy 1 unit.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Melta or Plasma. Preferred Enemy Flamers means you only get the reroll to wound on a 1. It doesn't Twin-link them, sadly. 

 

Plasma kills all the things, and the reroll to hit bypasses Gets Hot, while Melta is awesome for taking on Apothecary Terminators. Volkite, eh, S5 Preferred Enemy is pretty powerful, but it's low AP is poor.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[xera32]

2-3 combi meltas, rest are plasmas. You should always have a couple of melta for popping a dread or transport, especially useful if you take rhinos for your force.. And for seekers the banestrike rounds replace just the scorpius rounds, they get to keep tempest and kraken rounds.

 

[Capt. Tates]

That's some good advice cheers.

I'm running 8 headhunters with an apothecary and Skorr in a rhino this Sunday. Going to give the sgt and a guy combi meltas, 1 heavy Bolter and the rest combi plasmas.

Combi melta on the rhino as well (I usually run around 2-3 rhinos with combi meltas and they always pop a vehicle when they come on from outflank).

[Terminus]

That's some good advice cheers.

I'm running 8 headhunters with an apothecary and Skorr in a rhino this Sunday. Going to give the sgt and a guy combi meltas, 1 heavy Bolter and the rest combi plasmas.

Combi melta on the rhino as well (I usually run around 2-3 rhinos with combi meltas and they always pop a vehicle when they come on from outflank).

They can't take combi-weapons in the rules as written. Make sure your opponent is okay with it.

[Capt. Tates]

 

 

That's some good advice cheers.

I'm running 8 headhunters with an apothecary and Skorr in a rhino this Sunday. Going to give the sgt and a guy combi meltas, 1 heavy Bolter and the rest combi plasmas.

Combi melta on the rhino as well (I usually run around 2-3 rhinos with combi meltas and they always pop a vehicle when they come on from outflank).

They can't take combi-weapons in the rules as written. Make sure your opponent is okay with it.

Yeah they're good with it. They know it's RAI.

[Excessus]

I wish GW/FW would start releasing some FAQ:s about all these confusing rules in their books...

[GreyCrow]

I wish GW/FW would start releasing some FAQ:s about all these confusing rules in their books...

 

Apparently, from the Open Day, they aren't planning on releasing clarifications but only erratas from now on.

[Hesh Kadesh]

If it needs FAQing the rule isn't well written enough. An errata should be issued to clarify. This is a good thing.

[GreyCrow]

But that's totally not what they said They are correcting typos, not making rules clearer.

Edited October 18, 2015 by GreyCrow

[SkimaskMohawk]

From what I heard, GW is doing erratas, FW is still doing the normal FAQ thing

[Kibosh]

Hello Alpharius... all of you lol. Looking to start a second legion and am considering Alpha Legion for many reasons, but mostly the fluff.

 

So to this end I wanted to make a list that not only incorporated the AL Mutable Tactics, Coils of the Hydra, and Alpharius, but also not use any special characters (our group just has a thing against named characters besides primarchs) and it needs to stick to 2500pts. With those strict stipulations in mind I also wanted to make it semi competitive so that I just dont get me face stomped in every game. My main opponents are Vanilla Marine Rhino Rush with some Bike and Vindi support, Iron Hands with a lot of AV14/13, Imperial Fists mounted in Land raiders, Mechanicum with lots and lots of Monsters, and Gods know what else since our group is expanding. So here are a couple lists I drew up after reading all the tacticas. Please leave Criticisms and Comments and help me be one of many 

 

List 1:

 

2500pts- Alphas

 

HQ:

Vigilator- Scout Armor, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field

HQ tax, Infiltrates and probably dies, maybe get something with the meltabombs

 

 

Troops:
3x  10 Tacticals- Rhinos, Vexilla
Sgt- Artificer Armor, Power Fist, Power Dagger

 

Troop tax, still makes the best of it by hiding in transports and having a mean punch in CC

 

Elites:
Contemptor- Drop pod, 2 CCW, 2 Grav gun

 

Deep strike opening turn and target heavy armor (Typhons, Land Raiders)

 

5 Lernaen Terms- 4 powerfists, Plasmablaster
Sgt- Chainfist, Venom Sphere Harness
Anvillus Drop pod

 

Also comes in turn two, since they are stubborn and good objective grabbers can come in and fry infantry, kick ass in assault, then park on its objective

 

5 Firedrakes- 4 Thunderhammers, 4 Stormshields
Master- MC Thunderhammer, Stormhammer
Anvillus Drop pod

 

Also comes in first turn, hides and gets ready for a brutal turn 2 assault

 

Heavy Support:
Fire Raptor- Reaper Autocannons

 

Also hopefully comes in turn 2 or 3, and provides gun support/anti air

 

LoW:
Alpharius
RoW- Coils of the Hydra

 

Pops out whenever and wherever he will do the most damage

 

List 2:

 

2500pts- Alphas

 

HQ:

Vigilator- Scout Armor, Melta Bombs

HQ tax, Infiltrates and probably dies, maybe get something with the meltabombs

 

Troops:

 

3x  10 Tacticals- Rhinos, Vexilla
Sgt- Artificer Armor, Power Fist, Power Dagger

Troop tax, still makes the best of it by hiding in transports and having a mean punch in CC

 

Elites:

 

Contemptor- Drop pod, 2 CCW, 2 Grav gun

Deep strike opening turn and target heavy armor (Typhons, Land Raiders)

 

Contemptor- Drop pod, 2 CCW, 2 Grav gun
Deep strike opening turn and target heavy armor (Typhons, Land Raiders)

 

6 Mor Deythan- 4 combi weapons (situational), 2 plasmaguns

Dedicated Trasport- Darkwing Stomreagle

Come in from reserve and targets heavy infantry/enemy air/and tanks

 

Heavy Support:

 

Deathstorm- Drop pod Assault, krak Launchers

Comes in turn two away from my dreads and causes more alpha style chaos

 

Sicaran- Heavy bolter sponsons

 

LoW:

 

Alpharius
RoW- Coils of the Hydra

Pops out whenever and wherever he will do the most damage

 

Tactics:

Well both this lists have Tactics that take advantage of all of the Mutable Tactics, they can all be used in the Coils of the hydra, and they all benefit from Alpharius being around. 90% of the time I will use infiltrate, but in those rare cases I'm facing something crazy I can mix it up with say counter assault or tank hunters. Real question is how can it get better without compromising fluff, using CotH, Mutable Tactics, Alpharius, and sticks to 2500pts. Let the manipulations begin. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Kibosh

[GreyCrow]

I sent Forgeworld an email asking about combi-weapons on Headhunter Kill Teams. I'll update the thread when they answer :)