[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Lord Asvaldir]

Yeah I don't understand the lernaean hate, sure they are not firedrakes, deathshroud or justerian but they are still ws5 terminators which is better than what most legions can get. Basically all they lose out on is access to combi weapons, which is unfortunate but hardly makes them suck. 

[Withershadow]

It lets them function in a different way. Other than the new Pyrae Sekhmet, Lerneans are good at clearing out large units of chaff as well as the usual stuff you throw 4++ terminators with fists at. Two volkite shots per guy, plus two templates from venom launcher, plus Hammer of Wrath can clear out a lot of basic mooks or even force through a wound or two on elites.

 

They work best if you take a larger unit (if only taking 5, a terminator Command squad may be a better alternative for about the same cost), and ideally also being Daddy for preferred enemy (to make that volume of attacks really sing).

 

I see the logic of the conversion beamer but since you've already technically paid for the volkite, that's a very expensive and situational weapon.

 

Average rolls with preferred enemy sees 10 of them them kill 7 power armoured models just with volkite and hammer of wrath. The biggest problem is potentially putting yourself out of charge range, so fly that Kharybdis really close!

[Fallen11]

Why take terminators to clear out basic 3+ stuff? This stuff is cleared by most things. If you are taking elite stuff to clear basic stuff, with what are you clearing other elite stuff?

[Withershadow]

Guns. I prefer to shoot the nasty melee guys, and bully the shooty weak guys, but they still have power axes and fists to deal with elite units. WS5 and Stubborn are huge when dealing with Primarchs or other elite combat units, and the true value of that is probably more than 15 points, so overpaying a bit for the volkites* is not the end of the world. Plus the Harrowmaster is a pain-train with 4 base chainfist/dagger attacks.

 

The additional guys are priced decently at 40 points per model with volkite, stubborn and WS5 over a basic Legion terminator.  They will stomp most other legion uniques, especially with Alpharius present, or at the very least tarpit them in an attrition battle. For example, with powerfists ignoring additional wounds and FNP, they actually outfight Justaerin in melee even without any other buffs (due to harrowmaster's +2 attacks and being cheaper per model).

 

*With preferred enemy, it's really not that bad. While on average it's not as impressive vs. terminator armor (although that's still 2-3 dead), what the grenades/hammer of wrath/volkites do is generate volume. In practice, your dice will skew downward and upward, and from 10 guys that's 30 potential wounds not counting two templates and deflagrate, before you make any melee attacks.  Being too effective with your shooting is an actual risk you have to consider.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Withershadow

[TheAlephNull]

Guns. I prefer to shoot the nasty melee guys, and bully the shooty weak guys, but they still have power axes and fists to deal with elite units. WS5 and Stubborn are huge when dealing with Primarchs or other elite combat units, and the true value of that is probably more than 15 points, so overpaying a bit for the volkites* is not the end of the world. Plus the Harrowmaster is a pain-train with 4 base chainfist/dagger attacks.

 

The additional guys are priced decently at 40 points per model with volkite, stubborn and WS5 over a basic Legion terminator.  They will stomp most other legion uniques, especially with Alpharius present, or at the very least tarpit them in an attrition battle. For example, with powerfists ignoring additional wounds and FNP, they actually outfight Justaerin in melee even without any other buffs (due to harrowmaster's +2 attacks and being cheaper per model).

 

*With preferred enemy, it's really not that bad. While on average it's not as impressive vs. terminator armor (although that's still 2-3 dead), what the grenades/hammer of wrath/volkites do is generate volume. In practice, your dice will skew downward and upward, and from 10 guys that's 30 potential wounds not counting two templates and deflagrate, before you make any melee attacks.  Being too effective with your shooting is an actual risk you have to consider.

I gotta agree 100% with this assessment. My Lernaeans have been earning their keep. 5 man teams, all chainfists, in dreadclaws wrecked 2 knights and broke a Grey Knights Terminator squad in one recent game. Also beat the Harlequins recently thanks to Lernaeans. That WS5, Volkites, and Stubborn is great.

[hivey]

Can we take the special thousand sons dread?

[Withershadow]

I prefer to go bigger than 5-strong and only keep to 1 chainfist for every 2-3 powerfists just to maximize cost savings, but 10 in a Kharybdis cost as much as 2x5 in Dreadclaws and you get an extra Harrowmaster, so it depends on your opponents.

 

Going through the other elite terminators, Lerneans actually outfight everyone point for point because power fists ignore that second wound.

 

5x Justaerin with 3x fists, 2x chainfists, combi-weapons - 325

5x Firedrakes with 2x fists, 2x chainfists, 1x mastercrafted thunder hammer, shields - 340

5x Red Butchers with double axes, chainfist/powerfist - 290

5x Lerneans with 3x fists, 2x chainfists, dagger - 265

 

They are the cheapest option (enough for 1 or 2 extra guys), and will actually outfight all of those units unless being charged by the Butchers.

[Caillum]

Can we take the special thousand sons dread?

No, as it's an upgrade for a Contemptor Talon in a Thousand Sons Detachment. Not quite the same.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Caillum

[Vogon]

I have a game arranged for later this week against a guy running Salamanders.

 

We’re at 1500 points he will be using RoW Primarch’s Chosen and will be basically running the BoP box and Vulkan.

 

I’m currently contemplating running pride of the legion and throwing 10 Lernean’s at him plus associated other gubbins to clean out the rest of the force.

 

My question is do I match him Primarch for Primarch and send in Alpharius also using the Primarch’s Chosen RoW or Pride of the legion to make My Lerneans Troops choice?

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

 

P.S. I was contemplating Custodes but I don’t currently have anything that could go toe to toe with Vulkan and his big hammer.

[Caillum]

No! Alpharius is an amazing army-buffer, Castellax-killer and Vehicle-destroyer... but he sucks against other Primarchs.

 

He's taking "Primarch's Chosen" at 1500 points? Rough. I faced that once (and won) and I will say this - power fist Lernaeans will do a number on any Primarch. WS5 will help against everything except Firedrakes, and you want S8 to get through Vulkan's high Toughness. If he has a bodyguard, thin it out before going in. Sniper Veterans are pretty helpful here.

 

Apart from that, good luck! :)

[Sete]

I got a rule question, since alpharius is bulky, can he be modelled into a terminator armour?

And then hide in a terminator unit?

[Withershadow]

You can model it as variant terminator armor if you want. He can hide in any unit regardless of how you model him.

[Vogon]

No! Alpharius is an amazing army-buffer, Castellax-killer and Vehicle-destroyer... but he sucks against other Primarchs.

He's taking "Primarch's Chosen" at 1500 points? Rough. I faced that once (and won) and I will say this - power fist Lernaeans will do a number on any Primarch. WS5 will help against everything except Firedrakes, and you want S8 to get through Vulkan's high Toughness. If he has a bodyguard, thin it out before going in. Sniper Veterans are pretty helpful here.

Apart from that, good luck! :)

Well I'm pretty sure that he doesn't have Firedrakes but I know he has Pyroclasts.

 

Initial thoughts

 

Praetor Tribune

Exodus

Contemptor with Assault Cannon

10 Sniper Vets with heavy bolter

10 Lerneans (Conversion Beam Projector)

Sicaran Venator lascannon sponsons

 

Hang back with the heavy weapons and shoot like mad until they’re close enough then charge them.

 

Hopefully by the time they’ve made it across the board I’ll have whittled them down a bit.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[IronDrake28]

I got a rule question, since alpharius is bulky, can he be modelled into a terminator armour?

And then hide in a terminator unit?

I mean...Every Primarch is at least Bulky. I like your line of thinking though. ;)

[Sete]

Well Lore wise Alpharius and Omegon are just a bit taller than a regular Space Marine. That's why I thought on Tartarus Terminator Armour.

[Vogon]

Does anyone use Autilon Skorr?

 

I have the model, have painted him up and want to make use of him but I’m not convinced he’s worth it.  His special rules seem a bit lack lustre for anything other than granting a rite of war in small games.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[IronDrake28]

Does anyone use Autilon Skorr?

 

I have the model, have painted him up and want to make use of him but I’m not convinced he’s worth it. His special rules seem a bit lack lustre for anything other than granting a rite of war in small games.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

I love him for smaller games. Getting chosen duty and being able to pick your warlord trait with mutable tactics makes for a very flexible force. His new rule that gives him FNP(3+) and Fearless on the last turn is interesting and comes in handy for keeping an important objective.

[WhatTheBlazes]

So with the new units for Space Wolves and Thousand Sons revealed, I'm wondering if this gives us more interesting units to take as Rewards of Treason? Sekhmet Terminators, anyone? 

[IronDrake28]

So with the new units for Space Wolves and Thousand Sons revealed, I'm wondering if this gives us more interesting units to take as Rewards of Treason? Sekhmet Terminators, anyone?

Aye, I'm very interested in this myself. :) Anyone out there had any good ideas?

[MysticTemplar]

I personally really like the Khenetai Blades - I don't know if there's any target that really requires 30 Force swings w/Preferred Enemy, but I really like the idea of them aesthetically.

[Withershadow]

Not really, no. Without Legiones Astartes: Thousand Sons, they can't pick a cult which is a big loss. Mutable tactics in this case is the worse Legion trait in my opinion.

[Purge the Daemon]

Not really, no. Without Legiones Astartes: Thousand Sons, they can't pick a cult which is a big loss. Mutable tactics in this case is the worse Legion trait in my opinion.

I'd agree here what makes 1ksons strong is thier LA which gives huge benefits to both rules and their psychic roles. So I'd almost certainly avoid their units in an alpha Legion army.

[Cornelias]

I'm toying with the idea of using pairs of multi-melta attack bikes when using infiltrate as my mutable, anyone have any thoughts at all? I usually run Dynat (PoTL), Sabateur, assorted vets in rhinos as a base, leviathan in pod and quad mortars. I can post a few example lists if the discussion starts taking off in a meaningful direction.

[ak1508]

What can anybody say about using the new Space Wolves units? I haven't had a chance to see them in detail, so not too sure what to expect of them. Anybody can elaborate if they are worth "stealing"?

[MysticTemplar]

 

 

Not really, no. Without Legiones Astartes: Thousand Sons, they can't pick a cult which is a big loss. Mutable tactics in this case is the worse Legion trait in my opinion.

I'd agree here what makes 1ksons strong is thier LA which gives huge benefits to both rules and their psychic roles. So I'd almost certainly avoid their units in an alpha Legion army.

 

I mean, why? Regardless of whether or not they have the cults, they still get to keep the Psychic abilities in general, which seems like it could be potentially interesting. Just because they're stronger in another Legion doesn't mean they aren't potentially viable in ours.