[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

Not really, no. Without Legiones Astartes: Thousand Sons, they can't pick a cult which is a big loss. Mutable tactics in this case is the worse Legion trait in my opinion.

I'd agree here what makes 1ksons strong is thier LA which gives huge benefits to both rules and their psychic roles. So I'd almost certainly avoid their units in an alpha Legion army.

 

I mean, why? Regardless of whether or not they have the cults, they still get to keep the Psychic abilities in general, which seems like it could be potentially interesting. Just because they're stronger in another Legion doesn't mean they aren't potentially viable in ours.

If taking sekhmet you lose out on the 3++, as well as generating on 3+. The blade kabal aren't really top tier unless they roll good psychic powers again the 3+ helps here and so does Pavoni to make them faster and more killy.

 

Sekhmet more than anything else really like their legion rules.

 

 

What can anybody say about using the new Space Wolves units? I haven't had a chance to see them in detail, so not too sure what to expect of them. Anybody can elaborate if they are worth "stealing"?

Uhm straight answer not in the slightest worth it.

 

Suzerian are a direct upgrade over Deathsworn, and cost less to boot.

 

Varagyr are defintely suboptimal in terms of terminators honestly better of with lerneans or really any of the decent terminators (Drakes, Sekhmet, justaerin, deathshroud, butchers even)

 

The last option is Grey Slayers but that's like stealing Tactical Marines so....

Edited March 8, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[ak1508]

I already made my custom built Suzies :) Are Tyrants worth it? With the new models coming out soon, they will definitely make an awesome AL steal. Even came up with an idea to model them!

[Purge the Daemon]

I already made my custom built Suzies :) Are Tyrants worth it? With the new models coming out soon, they will definitely make an awesome AL steal. Even came up with an idea to model them!

They aren't great they aren't bad. You could defintely win with them but it depends on the rest of your list.

 

They are a fun option and against the right list they can cause a decent amount of hurt. They throughly :cuss on militia and mechanicum as they wound Castellax on 3s and remove saves. Aren't to great vs custodes vs marines they kill light armour can strip hull points and decimate infantry.

 

Aren't super competitive but defiantly use able.

 

The new models also look super cool.

[Galron]

Tyrants will make a non-TEQ squad or non av14 vehicle disappear each turn, maybe even an AV14 vehicle with a siege master and a full squad. 20 tank hunter krak missiles are deadly. That said they are still expensive.

 

They have been saying they were coming out for years now. Most of us simply got aftermarket cyclone launchers and made our own for far cheaper than what FW is going to likely charge if they ever do make them.

[Angmarred]

 

I already made my custom built Suzies :) Are Tyrants worth it? With the new models coming out soon, they will definitely make an awesome AL steal. Even came up with an idea to model them!

They aren't great they aren't bad. You could defintely win with them but it depends on the rest of your list.

 

They are a fun option and against the right list they can cause a decent amount of hurt. They throughly :cuss on militia and mechanicum as they wound Castellax on 3s and remove saves. Aren't to great vs custodes vs marines they kill light armour can strip hull points and decimate infantry.

 

Aren't super competitive but defiantly use able.

 

The new models also look super cool.

What would be a super competitive Coils choice?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

What would be a super competitive Coils choice?

 

 

Totally depends on your local 'metagame'  IMHO.

 

Though arguably Firedrakes, Invictus Suzerain and Gal Vorbak are all very good choices.

 

 

Personally, with all the psyker shenanigans popping up all around, I'm quite tempted to give a Mhara Gal a try ... not highly competitive though according to most. 

[Angmarred]

 

 

 

What would be a super competitive Coils choice?

 

Totally depends on your local 'metagame' IMHO.

 

Though arguably Firedrakes, Invictus Suzerain and Gal Vorbak are all very good choices.

 

 

Personally, with all the psyker shenanigans popping up all around, I'm quite tempted to give a Mhara Gal a try ... not highly competitive though according to most.

How would you deliver them? Land Raider? Or Dreadclaw and accept Infiltrate as your Mutable

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Firedrakes or Suzerain in their choice of dedicated transport, a Phobos LR.

Gal Vorbak deep strike.

[shaun03]

Iron havocs with ML are worthy mention. Personal I use them for all comers list, do to cheapest flak option and many of the 30k/40k list I play are flier heavy. Even with no flying targets they still work out rather well.

 

A increase in physic tricks do to magus popping out in 40k is being rather annoying. 30k list in my area tend to be less on magic and more on flare shield Spartans POTL list. And a dule fire raptor list that pops up from time to time. But I digress there is no " best" unit to steal, it comes down to rule of cool and what your list is lacking and what taken be stolen to fix it. Sometimes it fun to steal a bunch red butchers and stuff them in spartan and face :cuss something, and other times different approach is best.

[barracuda]

Hydra Dominatus, guys! What do you about ashen circle for coils?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Hydra Dominatus, guys! What do you about ashen circle for coils?

 

Way to expensive for what they do.

 

You'd need a unit of 10 to make them usable, three power weapons sprinkled in, plus AA and MB on the Sergeant. Comes in at > 300 pts. 

[hivey]

So what would be the best units to steal for a coils list with alpharius?

[Withershadow]

 

I already made my custom built Suzies Are Tyrants worth it? With the new models coming out soon, they will definitely make an awesome AL steal. Even came up with an idea to model them!

They aren't great they aren't bad. You could defintely win with them but it depends on the rest of your list.

 

Aren't super competitive but defiantly use able.

WHAT?! They are easily in the top 3 for best unique unit in the game, and they are even better with Alpha Legion's mutable tactics and being an elite rather than heavy choice. They are hands down the #1 choice if you wanted a shooty unit and/or something to hold the center of your lines.

 

They are great and super competitive. The reason they became heavy support is because otherwise Iron Warriors with Pride could just spam them and take a full allotment of heavy support. Fantastic unit, absolutely.

 

Suzerain are nice, but you then basically have to buy a Land Raider (which sucks), or you're locked into Infiltrate as your mutable option. I prefer them in a Dreadclaw.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Withershadow

[ak1508]

Do you guys reckon that in most cases its better to go for full strength units? Like say, 10 Tyrants instead of 5? And so on. 

[Withershadow]

I take as many as I can fit without sacrificing other aspects of the list. Seems 8-strong is what I most commonly can manage.

[RaptorPatton]

I've only recently started 30k and Alpha Legion, and been working on a list using PotL focusing on veterans with sniper and no heavy/special weapons, support squads for the fancy guns, and 15-20 man tacticals for the meatshields/ objective securing side of things. The rest of the list is to be switched depending on my opponent, but I think only a little tank punch would be handy since my local meta isn't huge on vehicles. What do you think might fit in here? Just a heavy support squad? Are dreads any good in 30k? I had a rough time using them in 40k, so I'm a bit wary.

[Withershadow]

That all seems bad. Pride of the Legion is not a great Rite (can give up 2 VPs), worse than usual for Alpha Legion (with martial pride that's potentially 3 VPs your opponent can get). 15-20 man tacticals aren't great in the best of times, and particularly not when you're using Pride of the Legion, the purpose of which is mainly to avoid taking tacticals.

[Lord Asvaldir]

There's a pretty easy fix for that, just don't take pride of the legion. If you're using 2 fifteen man tactical units, there's no point to pride. 

 

I think a heavily veteran/support suad focused list can work well, especially for AL with scout/infiltrate but you need to keep a few things in mind. First off you need solid anti tank support, probably in the form of dreadnoughts, land speeders or tanks since infantry based anti tank weapons often don't cut it (namely melta, which isn't enough in the armored ceramite world of 30k). Second, except for your big tactical suads you will need transports for all your units, absolutely essential for units like veterans and support suads that are most effective at short range. 

[Withershadow]

Alpha Legion use meltas better than most. S9 AP1 with tankhunter and either BS5/preferred enemy from Alpharius or BS5/+1 damage from Dynat makes our veterans Spartan murderers.

[RaptorPatton]

Good things to keep in mind. Alright, so drop the tacticals and focus on the vets, along with maybe dreads in DPs? Are rapier lascannons a viable anti-tank? And even with infiltrate I would be putting the vets in vehicles to help them get into position, with melta bombs for the whole squad. Melta bombs ignore armoured ceramite, correct? It's been a very long time since I played Marines, so thank you for the advice!

Edited March 22, 2017 by RaptorPatton

[Withershadow]

Rapier Laser Destroyers are okay. Ordnance means they are a better lascannon, and with tank hunter mutable tactic you effectively get 4 chances at a penetration roll, which means a hit results in a pen vs AV14 more than half the time. Alternatively, Infiltrate lets you set up in an ideal spot. With vindicator laser destroyers reduced to 36" range, I think this is a real choice now. IIRC, direct fire ordnance can be snap fired now per the FAQ.

 

However most AV14 will be sporting flare shields making the rapier less effective, and mathematically I'm pretty sure shatter shells do better vs AV13 and below and non-flare shielded AV14.

 

Meltabombs do ignore ceramite but note each squad only gets one MB attack per combat phase.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Withershadow

[Galron]

I field infantry heavy AL. In a small game(2k) I generally field a Praetor Genericus doing the coils thing, an assault squad, a vet squad snipering with heavy bolters(I think the models look cool is only justification), a pair of tactical squads, a pair of seekers with plasma combis, a tac support squad with meltas, Iron Havocs with missile launchers, a Sicarian and a Scorpius. Every sergeant has a melta bomb in addition to whatever varied wargear they carry, I don't really tool them up much in general even in bigger games. Everyone who can rides in a Rhino and if memory serves they all have havoc launchers to be poor man's artillery. With so many units infiltrating in I generally do not have an issue with enemy tanks especially if I seize.  

[Withershadow]

Don't forget, vet sgts can't take meltabombs by themselves.

[RaptorPatton]

Seekers seem really cool to me, but so expensive... Same with Destroyers. I might allow myself some "Rule of Cool" on my fringe elements of the army  , but infantry heavy with a good mix of weapons loadouts sounds like the way to go. Thanks a lot for all your help all, I appreciate it!

[shaun03]

You can always add multi-meltas to rhinos, some on this thread pointed it out to me. Been fielding them every sense. I typical do coils with 3 tactical, support sq, iron havocs, so that's 5 rhinos with MM so between infiltrating/out flanking you can be in good spots. Yes you will give up VP easily because rhino die, we all know this.

 

Atack bikes with MM are good tool as well, I tend to favor them over land speeders, but that's just personal preference.

 

Destroyers are one of favorite units, however on the table top that lack luster and that's being nice, but for rule of cool there worth the add, if you go with JP than dule purpose them as assault marines so they don't sit on shelf. Learn the same thing with headhunter great kits garbage rules, make for better vet models or skeekers.