[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Slips]

*snip*

With power fist you get an additional attack only if you have power dagger too which only sergeants can take (consequence of the specialist weapon rule). So since you will strike at initiative 1 anyway with either weapon, you might as well choose power fists for the much higher strength value, however, that will reduce your number of attacks too unless you have a power dagger which only the sergeant can take. So suddenly it is not a no-brainer to switch out the axes for fists. What is your take on the problem?

The way you phrased the emphasized bit makes it read like youre losing attacks by swapping from Axes to Fists, with or without power daggers when thats not the case.

 

Squad of 10 with axes has 21 Attacks (2x9 + 3); 31 attacks on the charge.

Squad of 10 with fists and a dagger on the harrower has 22 (2x9 + 4); 32 attacks on the charge.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Slips

[Imren]

 

*snip*

With power fist you get an additional attack only if you have power dagger too which only sergeants can take (consequence of the specialist weapon rule). So since you will strike at initiative 1 anyway with either weapon, you might as well choose power fists for the much higher strength value, however, that will reduce your number of attacks too unless you have a power dagger which only the sergeant can take. So suddenly it is not a no-brainer to switch out the axes for fists. What is your take on the problem?

The way you phrased the emphasized bit makes it read like youre losing attacks by swapping from Axes to Fists, with or without power daggers when thats not the case.

 

 

 

Ok, I see that my wording sounds confusing.

 

So after read the "special weapon" rule, my understanding, and the point I'm making is that one don't lose an attack (compared to the characteristics statline), one just don't get the +1 additional attack since the weapon types don't match. So to summarize my point:

 

• Volkite charger (assault 2 (not pistol))  + power axe (close combat weapon) -> no additional attack.
• Volkite charger (assault 2 (not pistol)) + power/chainfist (specialist weapon) -> no additional attack
• Volkite charger (assault 2 (not pistol)) + power/chainfist (specialist weapon) + power dagger (specialist weapon) -> +1 attack (since in this instance you have 2 or more weapons with the specialist weapon rule)

So have I interpreted the rules right or am I wrong?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Imren

[Slips]

Thats how it breaks down, yes.

 

To be fair, its not something you really need to care about with Gun & Melee weapon termies due to Terminators, barring the exception of the Primus Medicae and his Needle Pistol, never having Pistol Weapons. So the only time you're ever going to see Termies with bonus attacks from weapons is when they have 2 Melee Weapons which is pretty much limited to Space Wolf Vargyr and World Eaters Red Butchers.

[Imren]

Ok, thanks for the clarification! (I haven't played terminators since 2nd ed 40k in the late 90's).

[Cadmus Tyro]

So brothers, any advice with regard to tactics and list building when facing thousand sons, particularly the rather nasty RoW “Guard of the crimson king”.

 

My thoughts were adamantium will as a MT and taking CoH with a proteus to mess with reserve rolls?

 

Cadmus

[The Ironic Warrior]

If you wanna mess with Thousand Sons and feel like wasting points take a Mhara Gal as rewards of treason, but they're hyper expensive. Best bet is to take cults and milita with stubborn and rending to try and drown them in bodies while you neutralise key threats. 100 rending levy's are a nightmare to deal with for barely any points...

 

Adamantium Will isn't an awful choice, but it depends what they bring. If they go mech-heavy then you want that Tank Hunter, and if they play defensive then you want to Infiltrate and establish early board control. Leviathans are always good to use no matter the opponent, and outflanking Javelins are hilarious as well. Dynat is solid if you want to use either of these for that +1 to damage results in enemy deployment zones.

[dollar452435]

Hello Brothers! I read this topic. Amused threads about satober with dinat and alpha strike. I'm here for advice, because in my city heresy plays only 4 people including me. And before HH I did not play warhammer40k. We have played a little, but we have great potential for rapid growth.

I apologize for English - this is not my native language.

I'll tell you about our "meta":

1. Dark angels - he has all the miniatures in huge numbers, including knights and titans;

2. Sons of Horus - only infantry and rhino;

3. Ultramarines - infantry and vehicles, but prefers infantry;

4. And I.

 

Most often I play with the Dark Angels, play for 2-3k points. But he exposes many dreadnoughts, leviathans, flying units. This is where problems arise. 5 games - 5 defeats.

 

Question one: here are the miniature I have:

20 tacticals

10 vets with multimelt

10 vets with power CCW

4 dreadnought (with different hands and one with a rocket launcher on his head)

10 seekers

10 Head Hunters

1 Autilon Scorr

1 praetor in cataphract with paragon sword

10 cataphracts (five with a pair of claws)

10 Lerneans

5 tartaros

1 rhino

1 spartan

1 vendicator deimos

 

Can I beat defeat the Dark Angels with this set?

 

Cheers!

[Cadmus Tyro]

Can’t see that this has been discussed, what are peoples thoughts on stealing osiron Dreadnoughts in a CoH list? Is it possible? If so, is it viable?

 

Cadmus

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Can’t see that this has been discussed, what are peoples thoughts on stealing osiron Dreadnoughts in a CoH list? Is it possible? If so, is it viable?

 

Cadmus

 

 

Well, if you decide to run an Osiron, you'll want him on Divination (for the re-roll goodness) or Telepathy (for Psychic Shriek). 

Thing is, a kitted Osiron with Extra Armour and a nifty gun clocks in at 245 to 255 pts. (Culverin or Twin-Las).

I regularly run 3 to 4 Contemptors (and / or a Mortis) as part of my CotH list, and the Osiron just doesn't really complement them that nicely. It's a neat way to get a single level of psychic power in, okay, but not much more.

Which is why I prefer the Mhara Gal.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Are people still using Navigators? Seems a nasty combo with destroyers and their new options vs Tsons.

[dollar452435]

One more question. Do I understand correctly that alpha hit is a combination of infiltrate and scout? We go to the table and with the help of Alpharia and CoH we get the first move or seize the initiative. Then we shoot and go into close combat, destroying most of the enemy’s forces. I'm right?

[RoadRunna]

Question for usage of the Exodus weapon which has the “Lethal” special rule.  It has the wording “This attack inflicts two wounds per unsaved wounding hit, rather than one”

 

Does this mean that if I shoot at a tactical squad with this weapon I can kill 2 marines with one shot?  Eg in a Vet Squad with two melta guns could I kill both?

 

Thanks

[Gorgoff]

Question for usage of the Exodus weapon which has the “Lethal” special rule. It has the wording “This attack inflicts two wounds per unsaved wounding hit, rather than one”

 

Does this mean that if I shoot at a tactical squad with this weapon I can kill 2 marines with one shot? Eg in a Vet Squad with two melta guns could I kill both?

 

Thanks

Nope, you kill one.

[rendingon1+]

Yes, you can.

RAW Unlike updated blade of perdition, there's nothing in the rules that says it's not the case. And arguing about it considering how poor Exodus is, is bad taste.

[RoadRunna]

Yes, you can.

RAW Unlike updated blade of perdition, there's nothing in the rules that says it's not the case. And arguing about it considering how poor Exodus is, is bad taste.

Perhaps it would work like this: the first shot kills the target (say the marine with the meltagun) with a precision shot and then the extra wound goes into the wound pool which would then be allocated to the next closest model

[Gorgoff]

Since one model must fail his save before he makes two wounds it is quiet obvious that the two wounds go on that model.

[Charlo]

Honestly, I think it's one of those things where the rules were written a long time ago (for a seperate edition even) and haven't been tightened up. Just something to clear up with your opponent/ event organiser prior to playing!

[rendingon1+]

Since one model must fail his save before he makes two wounds it is quiet obvious that the two wounds go on that model.

You can always say it goes right through and kills a guy behind or...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-bullet_theory

 

He's super sniper after all.lol

Edited January 21, 2020 by rendingon1+

[RoadRunna]

Since one model must fail his save before he makes two wounds it is quiet obvious that the two wounds go on that model.

Were it that obvious then the Leviathan dreadnought with the "snippy claw" would have used the same wording but it doesn't when describing how this claw weapon inflicts multiple wounds on the one model or FW could have just given it "instant Death" and done away with the entire "lethal" rule

[Gorgoff]

 

 

Since one model must fail his save before he makes two wounds it is quiet obvious that the two wounds go on that model.

Were it that obvious then the Leviathan dreadnought with the "snippy claw" would have used the same wording but it doesn't when describing how this claw weapon inflicts multiple wounds on the one model or FW could have just given it "instant Death" and done away with the entire "lethal" rule

Well, since fw often uses very different wordings for the same rules I don't see your point my friend. They are just very inconsistant with their writing which causes lots of problems over the years. Whenever a grey patch appear I go with the tamer version of the rules and was never wrong when the faq finally dropped so... that is that.

The thing is that they sometimes write rules like this and the players have to guess what they meant.

Infuriating to say the least.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Gorgoff

[Black Muse]

Hey guys. Just starting out with 30k, I'm working in my first list. Would you guys mind having a look and giving me some feedback? This is my first post here, so I hope my formatting will be ok. This is not a competitive list, but I do want an army that could carry a match.

 

 

 

Autilon Skorr [125pts]

 

Praevian [447pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Charnabal Sabre, Refractor Field

. 2x Castellax: Darkfire Cannon, 2x Flamers, 2x Power Blades

 

Lernaen Terminator Squad [375pts]

. 6x Lernean Terminators: 3x Chainfists, 3x Power fists

. Harrower: Master-crafted Chainfist, Power Dagger

 

2x Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion [130pts each]

. Graviton Cannon

. Laser Destroyer Array

 

2x Headhunter Kill Teams , Compulsory [369pts each]

.7x Headhunter: Combi-Plasma

. Headhunter with Heavy Bolter

. Headhunter Prime: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol, 2x Power Dagger,

 

Headhunter Kill Teams , Compulsory [335pts]

. 8x Headhunters: Combi-bolter

. Headhunter with Heavy Bolter

. Headhunter Prime: Artificer Armour, 2x Power Dagger,

 

Fire Raptor Gunship, Legion [230pts]

. Hellstrike Missiles

. Reaper Autocannon Battery

 

Created with BattleScribe ((https://battlescribe.net)

 

 

Mutable tactic is Tank Hunters, Warlord trait Master of Ambush. Everything infiltrates except 1 Rapier, going for a turn 1 alpha strike.

 

What do you guys think?

[Imren]

Consider switching from headhunters to machine killer veterans and sprinkle some combimeltas and combiplasmas in the squads, I suspect you will get more mileage out of them per point compared to headhunters.

 

You have no transport for any of your squads, which means they will be footslogging once deployment is completed. Their lack of mobility cause a few drawbacks:

• Easier for your opponent to anticipate what you will do and/or can do in your next turn.
• Reduced options on what enemy unit a particular unit in your army can threat.
• No protection against incoming fire unless you're in cover.

unless you play centurion mode, Suggest putting your infantry squads in Rhinos and consider giving the Rhinos multimeltas which will synergise well with tank hunters.

 

You could make one squad a bit close combat oriented and put them in a land raider.

 

As it looks now, a fast moving close combat oriented opponent will run all over you quite easy (WE in pods, WS with jet bikes and BA and EC with lot of jump troops will overrun that list relatively easy).

[Black Muse]

Thanks Imren.

 

 

Autilon Skorr [125pts]

 

 

Praevian [450pts]: Artificer Armour, Charnabal Sabre, Refractor Field, Volkite Serpenta

. 2x Castellax: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Legion Inductees, Darkfire Cannon, 2x Flamer, Two Power Blades

 

Lernaen Terminator Squad [290pts]

. Harrower: Master-crafted Chainfist, Power Dagger, Venom Sphere Harness, Volkite Charger

. 2x Lernean Terminator: Chainfist,

. 2x Lernean Terminator: Power Fist,

 

Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion [130pts]

. Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion: Graviton Cannon

. Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion: Laser Destroyer Array

 

Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion [75pts]

. Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion: Graviton Cannon

 

Headhunter Kill Teams , Compulsory [370pts]

. 7x Headhunter: Combi-bolter

. Headhunter with Heavy Bolter

. Headhunter Prime: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

. Rhino: Dozer Blade, Multi Melta

 

Headhunter Kill Teams , Compulsory [315pts]

. 7x Headhunter: Combi-bolter

. Headhunter with Heavy Bolter

. Headhunter Prime: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

Heavy Support Squad, Legion Lascannon [275pts]:

. 4x Space Marines,

. Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

 

Land Raider Battle Squadron, Legion [400pts]

. 2x Land Raider Proteus: Dozer Blade, Multi Melta, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons

 

. XX: Alpha Legion: Tank Hunters

 

Rite of War: Headhunter Leviathal

 

Aegis Defense Line [70pts]: Comms Relay

 

++ Total: [2,500pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe ((https://battlescribe.net).

 

The Aegis is there mainly to mitigate the fact that I've tripled my reserves. I also like the fact that i could outflank with everything if needed.

What do you think?

[Imren]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this sentence:

"The Aegis is there mainly to mitigate the fact that I've tripled my reserves"

 

I suspect you picked the Aegis defence line with the purpose to place your lascannon team there perhaps along with you rapiers to give them cover. They will be quite static and you will most likely have to do you battle plan around that Aegis line, expect you opponent to use fast close combat units to try to overrun it. Since you most likely will place the Aegis defence line on ground level you will place you lascannons behind it on ground level. That is a disadvantage, you want to place your heavy weapons teams and rapier teams on high ground to increase field of fire, on top of building or hills.

 

The two proteus are good, with exploratory augory web on each you will pretty much force your opponent to deploy everything from start that can do so and ditch his flyers.

 

If you don't put the Lerneans in transport then consider finding the point for a warmonger and deeps strike then wherever the opponent have footslogging standard power armoured troops, then you will have a fruitful round of volkite shooting same turn as deepstriking, and if your opponent don't charge your termies you will next turn. the chainfists will give versatility to damage vehicles too wherever they deep strike. The warmonger should be equipped with a powerfist too. To find the points I'd consider ditching one of the rapier units since you already have lots of antitank weapons i nthe rest of the list (darkfire, landraiders, heavy support squad).

Edited January 30, 2020 by Imren

[Charlo]

Imren, the Headhunter Leviathal RoW means all Vehicles MUST start in reserve. I think theres been some confusion here!

 

I'd say avoid the Vehicles if you are intent on running Headhunter Leviathal, having that much in reserve mitigates your advantages of Infiltraite, getting to take the first turn and the potential of not being shot at by failed enemy Ld checks.

 

You want some Combi-weapons on your Headhunters, these can be what you like however I'd consider Melta-Guns for the following:

• Given a Mutable Tactic of Tank Hunters, become very powerful
• It lets you assault after you shoot them

That last part is especially tasty, as Head Hunters can be surprisingly decent in assault. Venom Spheres and Power Daggers mean they get a good number of hits in, with rending no less. Always give the Prime a Powerfist by replacing his Bolt Pistol, as the Specialist Weapon dagger pairs with the fist for an extra attack, FOUR on the charge!

 

I'd also consider buying a Dreadclaw pod for the Larneans, as without infiltraite they'll be stuck walking!