[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Black Muse]

Thanks guys. You're both being very helpful.

 

So, what I've meant is that the Aegis is a good reserve buffing tool for my original plan. 1 Rapier unit doesn't infiltrate and could benefit from it. Heavy support squad could be placed next to them, but my idea was to infiltrate them to a vantage point, just like you said.

 

Charlo: The Terminators, Prevean and 1 Rapier infiltrate vie Master of Ambush so to free my mutable to be TH. That's why I've used the Heavy slots instead of the DT's. If I switch one for an Anvilus it give me less options I think. Also: what would you use instead of vehicles? And do you also agree that I'd suffer from lack of mobility in that case?

 

Finally, I could drop both Heavy bolter Headhunters, and the Melta's from the Landraiders, to give 7 multi melta to my Headhunters. If so, would you spread them or focus with one squad?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Black Muse

[Charlo]

Thanks guys. You're both being very helpful.

 

So, what I've meant is that the Aegis is a good reserve buffing tool for my original plan. 1 Rapier unit doesn't infiltrate and could benefit from it. Heavy support squad could be placed next to them, but my idea was to infiltrate them to a vantage point, just like you said.

 

Charlo: The Terminators, Prevean and 1 Rapier infiltrate vie Master of Ambush so to free my mutable to be TH. That's why I've used the Heavy slots instead of the DT's. If I switch one for an Anvilus it give me less options I think. Also: what would you use instead of vehicles? And do you also agree that I'd suffer from lack of mobility in that case?

 

Finally, I could drop both Heavy bolter Headhunters, and the Melta's from the Landraiders, to give 7 multi melta to my Headhunters. If so, would you spread them or focus with one squad?

 

No problem at all buddy!

 

Well the Anvilus is just another option for the Terminators, plus it will arrive automatically turn 1 as part of drop pod assault and keeps the terminators safe and incredibly mobile for a turn. They can arrive where best suits them.

 

The Landraiders are quite iffy if you ask me, they don't really add much and will at best arrive turn 2 and only from your own board edge, before they arrive you're rather thin on the ground. A very effective choice for heavy weapons could be a Sky-slayer jetbike squad. With either infiltraite or tank hunters they'd work wonders with some Multi-Meltas!

 

I'd say keep the Heavy Bolters on the HH, they're very characterful with the Banestrike rounds.

[Imren]

Imren, the Headhunter Leviathal RoW means all Vehicles MUST start in reserve. I think theres been some confusion here!

 

I'd say avoid the Vehicles if you are intent on running Headhunter Leviathal, having that much in reserve mitigates your advantages of Infiltraite, getting to take the first turn and the potential of not being shot at by failed enemy Ld checks.

 

You want some Combi-weapons on your Headhunters, these can be what you like however I'd consider Melta-Guns for the following:

• Given a Mutable Tactic of Tank Hunters, become very powerful
• It lets you assault after you shoot them

That last part is especially tasty, as Head Hunters can be surprisingly decent in assault. Venom Spheres and Power Daggers mean they get a good number of hits in, with rending no less. Always give the Prime a Powerfist by replacing his Bolt Pistol, as the Specialist Weapon dagger pairs with the fist for an extra attack, FOUR on the charge!

 

I'd also consider buying a Dreadclaw pod for the Larneans, as without infiltraite they'll be stuck walking!

 

Ah, now I get it! :) It even says in the end of the list.

 

So wouldn't HH Leviathal RoW work better in centurion or zone mortalis games? The head hunter squads would be very versatile with combimeltas, threatening dreadnoughts, speeders and regular infantry.

 

Dreadclaw is probably better option than bringing a warmonger.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Leviathal works perfect with Dreadclaws, especially since they FAQ'ed the Headhunters to be able to take them as dedicated transports.

[Black Muse]

 

Thanks guys. You're both being very helpful.

So, what I've meant is that the Aegis is a good reserve buffing tool for my original plan. 1 Rapier unit doesn't infiltrate and could benefit from it. Heavy support squad could be placed next to them, but my idea was to infiltrate them to a vantage point, just like you said.

Charlo: The Terminators, Prevean and 1 Rapier infiltrate vie Master of Ambush so to free my mutable to be TH. That's why I've used the Heavy slots instead of the DT's. If I switch one for an Anvilus it give me less options I think. Also: what would you use instead of vehicles? And do you also agree that I'd suffer from lack of mobility in that case?

Finally, I could drop both Heavy bolter Headhunters, and the Melta's from the Landraiders, to give 7 multi melta to my Headhunters. If so, would you spread them or focus with one squad?

 

 

No problem at all buddy!

 

Well the Anvilus is just another option for the Terminators, plus it will arrive automatically turn 1 as part of drop pod assault and keeps the terminators safe and incredibly mobile for a turn. They can arrive where best suits them.

 

The Landraiders are quite iffy if you ask me, they don't really add much and will at best arrive turn 2 and only from your own board edge, before they arrive you're rather thin on the ground. A very effective choice for heavy weapons could be a Sky-slayer jetbike squad. With either infiltraite or tank hunters they'd work wonders with some Multi-Meltas!

 

I'd say keep the Heavy Bolters on the HH, they're very characterful with the Banestrike rounds.

I hope I'm not going on and on here, it's just that I'm getting a lot from you guys. How's this? I've also included unit designations for a clearer read -

 

Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2,500pts]

 

Autilon Skorr [125pts, teams with Lernaens, infiltrate via WL trait]

 

Praevian [450pts, infiltrate via WL trait]: Artificer Armour, Charnabal Sabre, Refractor Field, Volkite Serpenta

2x Castellax: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Legion Inductees, Darkfire Cannon, 2x Flamer, Two Power Blades

 

Vigilator [105pts, teams with Recon]: Refractor Field, Scout Armour, 2x Volkite Serpenta,

 

Lernaen Terminator Squad [340pts]

Harrower: Master-crafted Chainfist, Power Dagger, Venom Sphere Harness,

5x Lernean Terminators: 4x Chainfists, 1x Power Axe

 

Rapier [130pts]: Graviton Cannon, Laser Destroyer Array

 

Headhunter Kill Teams [339pts]

7x Headhunters: 6x Meltas, 1x Heavy Bolter

Headhunter Prime: Artificer Armour, Melta, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

Headhunter Kill Teams [371pts]

8x Headhunters: 7x Meltas, 1x Heavy Bolter

Headhunter Prime: Artificer Armour, Melta, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

Reconnaissance Squad [200pts]: Cameleoline, Recon Armour, 4x Sniper Rifle, 4x Space Marines,

Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

Lascannon squad [275pts, infiltrate via WL trait]: Hardened Armour, 4x Space Marines

Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

 

Jetbike Sky Slayer [165pts]

 

XX: Alpha Legion: Tank Hunters

Rite of War: Headhunter Leviathal

 

Created with BattleScribe

[dollar452435]

Greetings, brothers.I'm going to play with a dangerous opponent. He has extensive experience and many miniatures. We play for 2500 points. The opponent will put 2-3 leviathan on the table. He will have air in reserves. Dark Angels. Most likely there will be many contemporaries and terminators. Perhaps a Spartan.Here is my roster. Please guide on the right path. 

 

++  Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2,500pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Autilon Skorr [125pts]

 

+ Elites +

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [185pts]: Twin-linked Lascannon x 2

 

Techmarine Covenant [35pts]

. Techmarine, Legion: Artificer Armour, Power Axe, Servo-arm

 

Terminator Squad, Legion [395pts]

. Tartaros Pattern Terminator Armour

. Terminator Sergeant, Legion: Power Dagger, Power Fist

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

. Terminators, Legion: Chainfist, Combi-Bolter

. Terminators, Legion: Combi-Bolter

. . Power Weapon: Power Sword

. Terminators, Legion: Combi-Bolter

. . Power Weapon: Power Maul

. Terminators, Legion: Plasma Blaster

. . Power Weapon: Power Axe

. Terminators, Legion: Power Fist

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

. Terminators, Legion: Power Fist

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

. Terminators, Legion: Chainfist

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

. Terminators, Legion: Chainfist

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

 

The Rewards of Treason [300pts]

. Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad: 5x Power Fist, 4x Tyrant Terminator

. . Tyrant Siege Master: Omniscope, Power Dagger

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Squad, Legion , Compulsory [305pts]: 9x Assault Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: Combat Shields, Melta Bombs, 2x Power Axe

. Assault Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Power Dagger, Power Fist

. Standard Wargear

. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainswords/Combat Blades

 

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [180pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades

. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [180pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades

. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Seeker Squad, Legion [255pts]: 6x Seeker Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: 6x Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

. Strike Leader, Legion: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

. . Power Weapon: Power Sword

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron, Legion [125pts]

. Vindicator Tank, Legion: Combi-Bolter, Demolisher Cannon

. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Legion and Allegiance: Traitor

.  XX: Alpha Legion: Infiltrate

 

Rite of War: The Coils of the Hydra

 

+ Lords of War +

 

Alpharius [415pts]

 

+ Use Playtest Rules +

 

Use Playtest Rules: Playtest Rules Off

 

++ Total: [2,500pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

Edited February 26, 2020 by dollar452435

[Zeruvar]

Posted this on the 30k reddit but I wanted to get as much feedback as possible for my Coils of the Hydra questions

 

Hi all. I made the switch to playing 30k with Alpha Legion recently. I'm trying to tweak my current list and have some questions about the Coils of the Hydra RoW. 

 

For the restriction "Infantry squads that do not ..." I understand that either I go with Infiltrate as my Mutable Tactic, or bring dedicated transports for each squad to be a valid army. Now here is where I get confused.

 

Is the restriction only for squads and not independent characters? I would guess no (IC's need to have infiltrate or dedicated transport) but then what compulsory HQ choices do I have that is valid for this rite since Exodus and Vigilator aren't compulsory HQs. I can't have a Praetor join a minimum tactical squad since a Rhino is only 10 capacity and a Spartan/Terrax drill/Kharybdis are not "dedicated transports" for them.

 

Thank you for your help.

[Nomadic Thunder]

If you take a HQ that can have a command squad then they could ride with them in their dedicated transport

[RoadRunna]

Hi All... having started my AL about 18mths ago I am yet to get a game in with them due to the COVID-19 restrictions here in Australia... can't meet with friends to game yet.  Anyway I have built a squad of 10 headhunters (love the sculpt) and want to know if I should run them as HeadHunters or Seekers?  Both have very similar rules but the HeadHunters are an extra 45pts for a squad of 10 (+20pts for the first 5 and then +5pts for every extra marine).  Is this points differential worth it?

 

I have found the old BolterChainsword  "Headhunters vs Seekers" thread but the commentary was back in 2016 so perhaps 4+years of gaming has been enough time to shed some new light on this.  

[Imren]

Headhunters haven't become better since 2016.

 

I built my headhunters kit and magnetised the weapon holding wrist, that way I can put combiweapons or special weapons or what ever. Mostly these days I run them as plasma support with plasma guns.

 

Magnetising will give you the flexibility to put whatever weapon options and thus run them as whatever suits your need at that moment.

 

The models fits nicely as veterans or seekers as well as headhunters. Plasma vets is always useful in any list.

 

An ocasional roll of six that givfes your AP3 is super situational, most enemy legion infantry squads will have artificial armour on the sarge that tanks that occasional AP3 shot. so headhunters are not very useful compared to plasma vet or perhaps seekers with scorpio rounds if you want to play more static with them.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Same discussion that pops up once per year, roughly.

 

RoadRunna, just skim through the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread, there's lots of input on Headhunters there.

 

And they have absolutely become better since they got Dreadclaws as dedicated transports. They're still to expensive of course, no doubts.

 

Also, for the umpteenth time ... they're nor comparable to Machine Killer Vets or Plasma Tac Support Squads ... they're not even  trying  to fullfil the same role. So perhaps we should stop comparing apples to oranges (though both are tasty).

Headhunters are a melee unit, pure and simple. Or maybe, very very maybe, if you want them as such, a swiss-army-knife kinda unit. 

 

All of that being said, you run Headhunters in the 'Leviathal', all other times you're better off with Seekers IMHO.

[Aias]

So, this is more a rules question, I guess, but it is definitely Alpha Legion specific.

 

When you steal a unit for Coils from the Thousand Sons (in this particular instance, I've stolen some Khentani Blade Occult), how does their psychic ability work? There's a note on their Brotherhood of Psykers rule that says "generate psychic powers from one of the Thousand Sons disciplines", but I'm not using the Thousand Sons Legiones Astartes rule. So do I just pick a discipline and generate my power? Or am I actually restricted by the Thousand Sons rules?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

You generate their power(s) from one of the five 'basic' disciplines (Divination, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Biomancy or Pyromancy [but obviously not any form of Daemonology]), but ignore the additonal effects / benefits of the 'Cult Arcana' rule, which is tied to 'LA Thousand Sons'.

[Aias]

That's what I assumed, but wanted to ask for more wisdom than my meager ability score would allow. Thank you!

[RoadRunna]

With the new Book 9 recently dropped has anyone considered taking a Excindio-class Battle-Automata  as a Coils of the Hydra choice?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

With the new Book 9 recently dropped has anyone considered taking a Excindio-class Battle-Automata  as a Coils of the Hydra choice?

 

 

No.

 

.

.

.

 

Or, more precisely: 

 

Nope, since it offers next to no synergies with anything the Alpha Legion has going for them in terms of special rules, nor with the RoW itself.

The Excindio is not something that leans itself well to support infantry-heavy lists.

Also, it would be contesting a highly desired Elites slot, since it would be shifted from Heavy Support to Elites.

Dreadnoughts (of any kind) offer a better support choice 99% of the time.

And then we haven't even talked about potential Vet Tacs, Lernaeans and Apothecaries you're blocking out.

It literally forces you to build your strategy around it, instead of playing to your Legion strengths of being highly adaptable.

And, with all that in mind, it makes the purchase of a Forge Lord (good HQ choice, but you're limited to only 1 consul in 'Coils') or a Techmarine (yay, there goes another precious Elites slot ...) almost mandatory.

 

The Excindio works in mostly mechanized DA lists, where you drop what few infantry models you got behind enemy lines via Pods, or even better, via Termites.

[The Scorpion]

Can the Exindio be transported though? They're monstuous creatures

[RoadRunna]

ok so that is clearly a hard "No" on the Exindio from the Unknown Legionnaire.  However I think than an Exindio in a ZM mission could be good where you can use the corridors to keep it away from the rest of your army.

 

For those wanting a nice little fluffy battle I took the Sacrificial Offering RoW when playing an Ambush deployment 2000pt game.  Took about 600pts of Militia in a War of Lies mission and 1400 of AL coming in from Reserves after spring their 'ambush'   Had the Militia in buildings in the center (which really helped their survivability) with a squadron of 2 leman russ and squadron of 3 sentinals to start with. Enemy Black Shields came in from the long board edges in Land Raider / LandRaider Alpha / Rhinos with some deep striking Mechanicum allies.  Win for the AL with a fluffy mission...  Give it a try

[Fallen11]

 

Headhunters are a melee unit, pure and simple. Or maybe, very very maybe, if you want them as such, a swiss-army-knife kinda unit. 

 

 

Who are you killing in melee with them? Tacticals?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

 

Who are you killing in melee with them? Tacticals?

 

 

Almost everything wearing Power Armour (3+), since you eliminated potential 2+ saves (Artificer) and / or Apothecaries with Precision Shot Combi-Plasma first, if things went right.

 

Preferred Enemy sure helped them out a lot.

 

Most people also forget about HoW attacks from the Venom Spheres.

[Fallen11]

 

 

 

Who are you killing in melee with them? Tacticals?

 

 

Almost everything wearing Power Armour (3+), since you eliminated potential 2+ saves (Artificer) and / or Apothecaries with Precision Shot Combi-Plasma first, if things went right.

 

Preferred Enemy sure helped them out a lot.

 

Most people also forget about HoW attacks from the Venom Spheres.

 

 

Well, not countin HoW, if you charge(meaning you ain't shooting those combi bolters), you will kill around 3.3 power armor marines. At the same time 10 veterans hitting back kills around 2.5 of them. And that's just bare bones veterans not kitted with anything. 160pts for vets VS 250pts for HH. It just gets way worse for HH if anyone is remotly equipped for cc or if they get charged. If you are talking about eliminating those 2+ saves etc with precision shots, means you invested even more points into them, and there is a good chance it's them who is gonna get charged(since you ain't charging that round because of rapid fire weapons), not the other way around.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Fallen11

[Cadmus Tyro]

I’m not sure anyone is going to argue that headhunters aren’t over costed/underperform compared to vets. I would perhaps even go so far as to say they are the most point inefficient legion specific unit, but I still like to use them from time to time ;).

 

You’re correct about rapid firing preventing assault, hence why I often use combi Melta as an alternative. Also remember, power daggers are rending, so they have some chance against 2+ saves. For me, the sergeants load out is most important. Artificer and a power glove, to pair with your power dagger, for a cheap 1+A, with preferred enemy.....

 

Making banestrike assault 2 (with a reduced range) would go a long way, hell, you might actually see people using it as an upgrade for vets etc then. The other thing that bugs me the most is their base attack of 1, and they can’t access the benefit of dual CC weapons as the dagger is a specialist weapon.

 

Do the above, drop the points slightly, bring combi weapon costs into line with seekers and fix that darn unusable RoW and they might see the table more often.

 

I do like unknown legionnaires points, making the most of what you have!

 

Cadmus

Edited February 10, 2021 by Cadmus Tyro

[Fallen11]

btw. for Alpharius, when you bring your same unit which opponent was bringin on 4+ from reserve in emey turn, it says that enemy units using interceptor rule can target them, but can't everyone target them? They  come in enemy movement phase, and then in enemy shooting phase it's open season on them,no? Would be strange that only units having intercept could fire on them?

 

For Alpharius giving Prefered enemy to everyone, says he has to be on the table and revealed. But for Lorgar Sire of the legion for example they stated he has to be on the table (and not transported in the vehichle). Why is it not stated for Alpharius that he can't be in vehichle?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Fallen11

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

.., not countin HoW, if you charge(meaning you ain't shooting those combi bolters), you will kill around 3.3 power armor marines. At the same time 10 veterans hitting back kills around 2.5 of them ...

 

Ooof. Just glad I don't 'mathhammer' ... otherwise, I'd always know beforehand if I would lose or win a game.   Now, that'd be a huge bummer ...

 

 

The real issue here being: people will never give Headhunters a try, because they inherently assume they're worse than other units.

They put no thoughts into possible applications or various configurations for the unit, nor have most people even discerned their purpose.

Nor do they see the 'upgrades' they've gotten since their first incarnation.

Good. Maybe they'll drop in price one day, due to people not buying them ...  

 

Simple solution:  Can't wrap your mind around them ? Just use Seekers instead (which are better for pure shooting). Problem solved.

 

 

Both of your more recent questions about Alpharius' game effects answer themselves by reading his rules entry and the Interceptor USR.

 

 

btw. for Alpharius, when you bring your same unit which opponent was bringin on 4+ from reserve in emey turn, it says that enemy units using interceptor rule can target them, but can't everyone target them? They  come in enemy movement phase, and then in enemy shooting phase it's open season on them,no? Would be strange that only units having intercept could fire on them?

 

For Alpharius giving Prefered enemy to everyone, says he has to be on the table and revealed. But for Lorgar Sire of the legion for example they stated he has to be on the table (and not transported in the vehichle). Why is it not stated for Alpharius that he can't be in vehichle?

 

Because Interceptor resolves at the end of the movement phase.

 

Of course any eligible units that can target the respective unit can fire on them in the shooting phase. And the unit that potentially intercepted them, might even be able to fire a different weapon at them. 

 

Because, apparently, Alpharius rule works differently ?

 

It even explicitly states that the unit CAN be in a transport vehicle, as long as there's sufficient transport capacity.

 

 

Edited for spelling / double quote.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Unknown Legionnaire

[Fallen11]

For intercept rule, I assumed it worked as I say, I just though it's strange why even say, hey you can shoot some weapon now, and in next phase you can shoot with rest of the weapons, since table wise there is 0 difference about what is gonna happen.

About Alpharious question, somewhere before in this thread someone mentioned he doesn't provide Hatred if he is in vehichle, but rereading rules I wasn't sure considering that Lorgar for example explicitly said he doesn't work from transport. 

So to sumarise it, if Alpharius is in transport and revealed he provides Hatred to other marines?