[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[helterskelter]

What did the NL run out of curiosity?

[Slips]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287452-wolf-packs-hh-projects-iron-command/page-18?do=findComment&comment=4252608

 

This is the Kitbash Wolf_Pack gave me for Usage as Dorn while I wait for his official model; its pretty dang cool.

 

Night Lords was playing an incharacteristical List even for himself:

-Praetor w/ Command Squad

-Herald w/ Command Squad

-Praevian w/ 3 Vorax

 

-10 Outflank Vets with 10 Power Axes x2

-A tac Squad we didnt see because the bunker they were in blew up and I think they all died?

-10 Calivers

-3 HB Tarantulas

-Castellum Stronghold with literally all the upgrades.

-3 Quad Mortars w/ Shatter

 

He mostly wanted to try stuff out that he hasnt thought of before or has played yet.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I approve of my creations crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentation of their serfs.

[Phalanx Warder]

Has anyone given much thought to the Stone Gauntlet supported by Kharybdis pods? Expensive as hell but 40+ melta bomb T5 breachers in your gunline is going to hurt!

[Lord Blackwood]

Sup  homie  , were here and we have rocks 

Enemy Gunline:  DEAR GOD THEY HIT ON 2s WITH BOLT ROUNDS  AND ARE TOUGHNESS FIVE 

Indeed !  And we have boarding shields ! 
commence slaughter of enemy forces 

[Flint13]

Those pods are going to look like adorable presents wrapped with a bow to my World Eaters. 

 

I imagine the guantlet/pod idea will work decently well in many circumstances, but in cases like that it has the steep downside of getting you closer to an enemy that really wants you to be closer. Plus, as you mentioned, way expensive, so you enemy is totes going to outnumber you. 

[Caillum]

Stone Gauntlet prohibits Deep Strike, and Kharybdis Claws must Deep Strike as part of DPA.

[Flint13]

Awe... 

 

I was looking forward to that :(

[Lord Blackwood]

tis a shame , but  if it was possible wouldn't defensive grenades also help take a bit off the world eaters charge too  , boarding shields and all that 

[MakoBoy88]

Especially as you can throw them as Blind Grenades.

[Flint13]

tis a shame , but  if it was possible wouldn't defensive grenades also help take a bit off the world eaters charge too  , boarding shields and all that 

 

Yeah, but just for the first unit that charges them.

 

It's pretty common bro-knowledge that World Eaters hurt when they charge, so don't let them charge, or keep defensive grenades on hand if they do.

 

So World Eaters players learn to target and combo charge better. It's a better mouse/mousetrap situation. It's why every centurion I bring has a boarding shield.

 

When I'm faced with breachers, I'll typically detach my IC (probs Khârn) from the unit in the movement phase and let him charge the squad first. Then charge the breachers separately with his despoiler squad. Khârn looses a couple of attacks and maybe a wound to overwatch, then the rest of the despoilers make it in with a full complement of attacks just fine. 

 

Every once in awhile I'll accidentally strand Khârn in combat when the despoiler unit makes a crap follow-up charge, but then he just gets rampage :D

[MakoBoy88]

Just finished another game (painting happened today so check my Plog tomorrow) and Polux killed his first Imperial Knight. The Leviathan killed another before being killed by a Lancer, chaplain worked brilliantly, and my Vindicator dod nothing.

 

But, seeing another thread for how good Generic terminators are, I have to say ours are incredible. Especially hunting other terminators. Our AP2 goes just as far killing them, but our 3++ goes so much further to keeping us alive. It's amazing. 15 of my terminators killed nearly 32 of his, including Kor Phaeron

[Charlo]

Vindicators never do anything. That's the beauty of them! :P

[MakoBoy88]

Makes think twice about taking 3 of them in a squadron lol.

 

But now I don't know what to put in its place haha

[Joe Firebrand]

I finally decided to start horus heresy and I like the deepstrike shenanigans that the Fists can get up to. With that in mind I made my first list below

+++ Hammerstrike 2000 pts (1995pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Praetor [Paragon Blade, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Teleportation Transponder, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

····Master of the Legion [Hammerfall Strike Force]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Tactical Squad [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Teleportation Transponder]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Teleportation Transponder]

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword]

 

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Laser Destroyer Array]

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Laser Destroyer Array]

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Laser Destroyer Array]

 

Legion Terminator Squad [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 4x Combi-Weapon, 4x Legion Terminators, Teleportation Transponder]

····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon]

 

Legion Terminator Squad [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 4x Combi-Weapon, 4x Legion Terminators, Teleportation Transponder]

····Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon]

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Legion Seeker Squad [9x Legion Seeker Space Marines, Teleportation Transponder]

····Legion Strike Leader [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad [6x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers]

····Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists][Hammerfall Strike Force]

[All Power Weapons would be Power Axes and all Combi-Weapons would be Combi-Plas]

 

So after having read through this thread I know that I am going to have trouble dealing with Spartans and that the list is lacking for anti-air. Since the Hammerfall Strike Force forces vehicles into reserves the only viable vehicles for the list seem like they would be flyers since they have to start in reserve anyway. I was thinking of dropping the Seeker squad for a gunboat of some sort but I wasn't really certain which flyer would be most useful for an IF list like this. I could also drop two of the Heavy Support squad legionaries to give them Flakk Missiles but i feel like that would make an already squishy squad squishier and I don't have much in the way of redundancy with them as it is.

 

In regard to Spartans, I have kinda just given up on the idea of popping them at range and have accepted that they are going to get where they are going. Since I haven't really seen any in the small group I play with, I am also not expecting to run into more than one or two, flyers are more common here so far as I can see.

 

The teleport transponder on the 20 man Tac. blob will probably come off at a few games but I did want to try out dropping twenty guys on an objective with an Apothecary and I feel like since the list doesn't have much in the way of mobility I need some way to get a squad up the field to tie up guns and attention from my (admittedly small) gun line.  (I also like twenty man blob squads since they feel very "Legiony" to me)

Edited April 2, 2016 by Joe Firebrand

[Slips]

Deepstriking 20 Tac Marines is possibly a very bad idea unless you have a no-scatter bubble around.

 

The footprint is huge, template bait and very easyily caught with a mishap.

 

If you want armor busting then in this case your taking dreads in dreadpods.

 

For a 2k Point Hammerfall, I'd instead go for something like this:

 

+++ Hammerfall (2000pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2000pts) ++

 

+ HQ (780pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (130pts) [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Refractor Field, Teleportation Transponder]

··Consul [Vigilator]

 

Legion Centurion (130pts) [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Refractor Field, Teleportation Transponder]

··Consul [Vigilator]

 

Legion Praetor (520pts) [Paragon Blade, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

··Legion Terminator Command Squad [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, 2x Chainfist, 3x Legion Space Marine Chosen, 2x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 4x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

··Master of the Legion [Hammerfall Strike Force]

 

+ Troops (620pts) +

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad (310pts) [9x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 2x Melta gun, Teleportation Transponder]

··Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad (310pts) [2x Graviton Gun, 9x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Teleportation Transponder]

··Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Elites (240pts) +

 

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (240pts)

··Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

+ Heavy Support (360pts) +

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (360pts)

··Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Cyclonic Melta Lance, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Traitor, VII: Imperial Fists]

 

A lot more points dense and low model count but a few things make this probably work better than your own list.

1. Vigilators have Cameleolines (stealth) and joins breachers who, when they deepstrike, have shrouded for a 3+ Cover Save in the Open or a 2+ cover in ruins.
   
2. Breachers can either take Graviton Guns or Melta guns as you see fit (they cost the same) to deal with armor and/or slow things down. They also have an invulnerable save which makes them a bit more resilient than standard tac marines vs S8+ Templates that they wont be getting FNP from anyways.
   
3. 3 Pods in the list meaning you can drop 2 on turn 1.
   
4. Leviathan with Drill and Melta Lance can deal with anything that has an AV up to an including a Knight; might even 1 shot a knight if you get lucky.
   
5. Cortus Dread has a Chain Fist (S10 Amorbane) and 2 Graviton guns (haywire) to be an additional Anti-Av solution
   
6. Preator and TDA command Squad in a pod. More Expensive but it means they wont drop from Deepstrike and eat all the firepower your opponent can muster for a turn. Additionally, on the drop, the Dreadclaw can Flat Out a further 18" to get you into position. After which, the pod moves 6", Disembark 6", and Charge 2D6"
   
7. Command Squad is also WS5 and can challenge block for your preator when needed and also provide a 6" Fearless Bubble as an added benefit. They also all have a 3++ save and can Sweep.
   

A lot less stuff but its a lot more focused to deal with a variety of threats.

 

Additionally, I will say that Taking Seekers without Combi-Weapons to make use of their Marked Target is a lost opportunity.

 

You can essentially Null-Deploy this list if going 2nd and hopefully the two things you pod in would be resilient enough to weather the turn until your next one at which point the rest of the list would hopefully arrive.

 

That said, even when taking Transponders, you aren't forced to deepstrike so you can still start on the table if necessary.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Slipstreams

[RedFox]

So do phalanx count as breachers in the gauntlet RoW or not?

[Slips]

They can be taken as Non-Compulsory Troops. Compulsory Troops still have to be Breachers.

 

Dont really know what you mean with "Counts-As Breachers" though.

[Charlo]

Maybe he means for the shield T buff?

[Slips]

They have Boarding Shields. So its pretty clear cut that they get the buff.

[MakoBoy88]

I'm finding my breachers are just not surviving like I thought they would. Which is a real pain.

[Slips]

Yes, well, thats the main problem of fielding MEQ (albeit tougher MEQ) in an environment where killing said MEQ is the norm.

[Slips]

While expensive, you could try slapping them into a Hammerfall List with a Vigilator to give them stealth for a 3+ Cover Save in the open when they Deepstrike (shrouded) under the effects of the RoW or a 2+ Cover Save in Terrain/Night Fighting.

 

Wont help much vs Ignores Cover Ap3 Weapons but hey, they still have a 6+ invulnerable save vs shooting...right?

 

Under Stone Gauntlet though, having an Apothecary goes a long way since you still get FNP vs S8 and S9.

[Lord Blackwood]

or stuff em in an armored transport of some kind but bleh  

i honestly love the way breachers look and what they are lore wise , but I feel they are outscaled on the table unless its like ZM  then they are  awesome

[RedFox]

Sorry i meant if phalanx could be taken as compulsory troop choices instead of breachers in the stone gauntlet RoW....i guess not.

 

Anyone ever tried putting breachers in a ceastus assault ram ? Maybe giving them lascutters...