[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[K3nn3rs]

So I'm still not decided on my Stone Gauntlet list....

I have 30 Mk III from the BoP box to convert into breachers so I have plenty of time to plan the next purchase.

 

Has anyone had any experience with the Stormlord?

 

With its super heavy stat line and transport capacity of 40 i thought it would be a great addition to the force. I'd mitigate the risk of it blowing up my using it to carry my Storm Shield terminators (3++) rather then the breachers (I have a spartan and LRs for those).

 

I don't want to take a Mastsdon as it's 5 x the cost (£) and 200-250pts more expensive and whilst I haven't seen one in action I'm underwhelmed by its firepower.

 

Thoughts?

[Flint13]

The Stormlord is great as a fire bunker, but not so much as an assault transport, which is probably why it never quite fits in with a legion list.

 

If you pile a bunch of assault units in there, you're going to want them to get to combat, but you don't want to move a storm lord bc it essentially cuts the firepower in half. S'why they're much more fun in solar Aux lists.

[nightwrench]

The Stormlord is great as a fire bunker, but not so much as an assault transport, which is probably why it never quite fits in with a legion list.

 

If you pile a bunch of assault units in there, you're going to want them to get to combat, but you don't want to move a storm lord bc it essentially cuts the firepower in half. S'why they're much more fun in solar Aux lists.

 

The Stormlord is great as a fire bunker, but not so much as an assault transport, which is probably why it never quite fits in with a legion list.

 

If you pile a bunch of assault units in there, you're going to want them to get to combat, but you don't want to move a storm lord bc it essentially cuts the firepower in half. S'why they're much more fun in solar Aux lists.

Can the storm lord transport rapiers and quad mortars?

[ThatOneMarshal]

 

 

The Stormlord is great as a fire bunker, but not so much as an assault transport, which is probably why it never quite fits in with a legion list.

 

If you pile a bunch of assault units in there, you're going to want them to get to combat, but you don't want to move a storm lord bc it essentially cuts the firepower in half. S'why they're much more fun in solar Aux lists.

The Stormlord is great as a fire bunker, but not so much as an assault transport, which is probably why it never quite fits in with a legion list.

 

If you pile a bunch of assault units in there, you're going to want them to get to combat, but you don't want to move a storm lord bc it essentially cuts the firepower in half. S'why they're much more fun in solar Aux lists.

Can the storm lord transport rapiers and quad mortars?

I think it states that it can only hold infantry models, which rappers and mortar are don't count. Edited November 7, 2016 by ThatOneMarshal

[StruManChu]

Played a ~1500 point ZM game against Iron Warriors as part of an ongoing campaign the other night, and thought I'd feed back some stuff to the group. It's nothing earth-shatteringly insightful, but you may find it useful.

 

My list was

Cataphractii Praetor (TH/SS & Digi Lasers, running Stone Gauntlet. Also +1 Strength and Fear thanks to the Character Advancement table in Book IV!)

6 Terminators (3 x TH/SS, 3 x PF/Combi-Plas)

10 Vets (2 x Heavy Bolters, AA & PF - Marksmen)

12 Breachers (2 x Flamers, AA & PF)

11 Tacticals (AA & MB)

Leviathan w/ Grav-Bombard, Claw & Phosphex

 

His was made up of two separate forces to represent a garrison force of mooks on the outpost I was attacking, as well as a separate small force that just happened to be there when I attacked, in order to balance the points a little.

 

Proper, thought out but small IW army -

Delegatus w/ Power Fist & Refractor Field

2 x Iron Circle

2 x 5 man Vet squads (Stubborn)

 

Outpost Mooks made up of what he had available -

Naked Centurion w/ Power Fist

5 Terminators (all PF & Combi-Plas)

2 x 15 man Tacticals

 

It was the mission type where the attacker (me) needs to capture 4 objectives, all of which were on the far side of a 4x4 ZM board, which he got to set up in a particularly unfriendly manner. I was basically blocked off from his side of the board by a long corridor with a single blocked opening. He also had control of every door (fair enough, it was his base), so I was very glad that every one of my squads had something that could break them open. He also stole the initiative, which ended up very much going in my favour. 

 

While my opponent could have sat back behind all of the locked doors and unhelpful terrain, that would've made for a very boring game, so instead he brought bits of his force forwards to engage me, which I thought was pretty decent of him. I ended up winning 7-2 on victory points, having claimed two objectives out of four at the end of turn six. The Leviathan was the star of the show, taking down both Iron Circle and his Delegatus after 4 rounds of combat. We figured out after the game that I'd read the rule for the Claw wrong and had been changing wounds caused to D3 wounds, rather than adding D3, so he probably would've got through them sooner had we been using that properly.

 

Thanks to the benefits afforded by the Stone Gauntlet, the Breachers managed to hold up his terminators for a turn of shooting and then two rounds of combat, even killing a couple, before being wiped out, but because they got killed in my turn, my terminators & Praetor got their charge in and absolutely minced them in a single round of combat. They then broke through another door, took a round of shooting from one of his vet squads, then charged, wiping them out and claiming an objective.

 

I didn't use the Veterans or the Tactical squad as well as I would've liked, and the Veterans ended up in front of the standard Tacs and so ended up on door-opening duty... And so ended up copping the brunt of a 15 man Fury of the Legion barrage from one of his tactical squads. Seven dead, thanks to some very poor rolling on my part (including six 1's from nine dice). However! The three that survived managed (along with the Tactical squad following swiftly behind them)  made short work of that squad with their return fire, and promptly landed on the other objective. I would've contested a third if I hadn't fudged a run roll in turn 6. 

 

In terms of actual Imperial Fist tactics, there's probably nothing here that hasn't already been said. Vigil Pattern Storm Shields make our Terminators rock solid, especially en masse. Our bolter-wielding dudes are super effective, especially Sniper Vets, even if you screw yourself over in the first few turns and only three survive to do anything useful.  Our Breacher squads, with +1T, are an effective speedbump. It's not groundbreaking. But having said that, these benefits are huge in ZM and smaller games. Our passive Legion and RoW benefits start adding up really quickly, and add a great deal of efficiency to our ordinary units, which in my case probably ended up being pretty key to my victory. At 3k, +1 BS and/or +1 T probably isn't going to make a huge difference when you've got a table full of Quad-Mortars, Grav Rapiers, drop-podding Leviathans and so forth, but at the 1.5k and below level, comparing our Yellow Tactical squad-style apples to other Legion's Tactical squad-style apples, it's massive.

[Gothical]

I'm back with some more Veteran thoughts :)

 

I've settled on one squad that will be rather familiar: Sergeant with Power Axe & Artificer Armour, 9 Veterans with 2 Combi-Flamers & 2 Heavy Bolters, Marksmen skill, Nuncio-Vox & Vexilla, 260 points. Eventually they'll have a Rhino too.

 

If I am going Vets-only with my B@C set then I'm going to be rather short on anti-tank for a little while, until specialised units can be bought. That led me to thinking about a squad with an AA/PF Sergeant, 2 Missile Launchers & 2 Combi-Meltas along with either the Machine Killers or Xenobane skills depending on what I expect to be facing. I am considering adding a few Power Mauls to the unit, because with those skills they are either Str7 or Str6 re-rolling To Wound on 3A models. However, the squad would be clear of 300 points before any transport was taken, so I am wondering if a Terminator Squad would not be better instead. The main advantage the Veterans have is that they can take a cheap Rhino rather than an expensive transport (the Deathclaw being the cheapest at thrice the cost of the Rhino), though with Teleport Transponders available that isn't necessarily as much of a concern as it would normally be.

 

What do you think, is it worth trying out an anti-vehicle squad or leave that to different units (be it Terminators or something else further down the line)?

 

Finally, I assume that the Vox & Vexilla is recommended on any unit that can take them? The 20 points-per-squad adds up quite fast across the army, but I can see how they are useful - well, the Nuncio-Vox at least, with the high volume of MEQ-killing weaponry & the Legiones Astartes rule to regroup regardless of casualties I am unsure if the Vexilla is needed everywhere.

[nightwrench]

You are correct.  I kept thinking it could but there are exceptions like the LOW Eldar flier specifically says it can carry weapons platforms...because Eldar need it...

[ThatOneMarshal]

So for the first time in a while I actually have a free Monday to go play at the local FLGS. I really didn't feel like doing more questing in WOW so I figured why not grab some minatures and roll some dice. I wanted to try out some 30k instead of Templars ask if i can proxy and everyone is alright with it.

 

It was an 1850 game against some regular salamanders with tau allies. I took basically a pride list with:

 

Praetor( opponent didn't want to play against some Sigismund unfortunately) in cataprat with a chain Fists riding in a raider with some command squad termies. All Have thunder hammer and shield.

 

Quad mortar

 

Contemptors dread with assualt cannon and grav in a dread pod.

 

2 vet squads with marksmen, rhino, missle launchers, and 2 Pw. Stage with fist and arti armor.

 

Predator with lascannon sponsons, ceramite, and machine spirit.

 

I ended up with a close win, found some interesting things:

 

Artificer armor is amazing

 

The predator pretty much acted as a weaker sicarian, much stronger than 40k version

 

Not having Armored ceramite on contemptors sucks. Was blown up by a melta gun second turn. Not really sure if a regular contemptors is worth it for the price.

 

Having armored ceramite on the land raider was awesome. Was much kore fun to not have to worry about melta everywhere.

 

The veterans unfortunately did nothing but they were decent, misslw launchers were a bit of a waste.

 

What special weapons do you all give your veterans?

[Slips]

I just roll with BS5 Heavy Bolters.

[Zopha]

I'll be going to the Heresy doubles weekend in Jan and was looking for some advise on list building, in case I have a gaping hole or missed something. My first event so it's going to be fun.

 

My 1k is going to consist of

 

1 x Delegatus for Chosen Duty rite.

 

2 x Vet squads with Heavy Bolters (x2) each in a Rhino with a pindle MM. Seargents with PF and AA.

 

1 x Heavy support with Las (7 marines)

 

1 x Apothecary with Augury scanner

 

The Delegatus is a bit of a boondoggle just to get vets as troops but this list is what I can paint in time for the event. He and the Apothecary will hang back in cover with the support squad as he can't do much else. Have access to two contemptors with a few options, standard dreadnoughts, Cataphractii (no Tartaros) and the Clath box. Along with a good pile of unassembled 40k marines and their weapon options.

 

The other half is going Mechanicus, not sure what his list is like but he's given this list a thumbs up.

[Charlo]

It was an 1850 game against some regular salamanders with tau allies.

 

Praetor( opponent didn't want to play against some Sigismund unfortunately)

 

What a butt.

 

"Oh I'm taking this unfluffy ally but NO you can't use your cool character incase he gets to CC and Murders my poor guys :( "

[Gorgoff]

Yeah, must be fun to play against him.

[Slips]

I'll be going to the Heresy doubles weekend in Jan and was looking for some advise on list building, in case I have a gaping hole or missed something. My first event so it's going to be fun.

 

My 1k is going to consist of

 

1 x Delegatus for Chosen Duty rite.

 

2 x Vet squads with Heavy Bolters (x2) each in a Rhino with a pindle MM. Seargents with PF and AA.

 

1 x Heavy support with Las (7 marines)

 

1 x Apothecary with Augury scanner

 

The Delegatus is a bit of a boondoggle just to get vets as troops but this list is what I can paint in time for the event. He and the Apothecary will hang back in cover with the support squad as he can't do much else. Have access to two contemptors with a few options, standard dreadnoughts, Cataphractii (no Tartaros) and the Clath box. Along with a good pile of unassembled 40k marines and their weapon options.

 

The other half is going Mechanicus, not sure what his list is like but he's given this list a thumbs up.

I'd almost drop a single lascannon marine to get your Delegatus TDA and a Stormshield so that he can tank for the squad.

[ThatMetalhead]

Hey,just a quick question: are Phalanx Warden that bad? There's no way to make them even a little bit more playable?

[Lord Blackwood]

with the drop in points to breachers , I have run mine as regular breachers more than warders  


The thing is they are just...really expensive breachers , with an odd buff that you may or may not see some use out of.  

[ThatMetalhead]

K thanks.

It's a shame though.... The kit is awesome

[Lord Blackwood]

How often does Sigismund earn his points back for you ?

 

For me it's about 1 in every three games. Not saying he does poorly but that he's not killing enough over the course of the game most times.

[Sulemain]

Is it just me, or do the Imperial Fists Legion rules mean that the Battle of Calth/Burning of Prospero miniatures go really well with said Legion? 

[Slips]

How often does Sigismund earn his points back for you ?

 

For me it's about 1 in every three games. Not saying he does poorly but that he's not killing enough over the course of the game most times.

Depends.

 

If its pure killing, pretty much the same as you. But if its also in terms of how much he tanked for the Squad with EW (when applicable), then pretty much every game for me when included with the stuff he just kills.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Out of pure curiosity (and because I'm ogling IF as my next potential project): has anyone tried to run a Stone Gauntlet list with Deredeos equipped with Atomantic Pavises upping the Breachers invulnerable save vs. shooting to a 5+ ?  

To expensive ?

Goes well with Apothecaries and their 5+ FNP ?

To hell with is and just run those Breachers in LR Phobos ? (Where do I stick my Delegatus w. Boarding Shield then though ?)

Other ways to increase the survivability of Breachers ?

[Slips]

T5 Breachers with a 5++/5+++ Would be pretty nifty and the Deredeos would still give you some needed AA (both kinds) especially with the Lascannons available now.

 

Won't be all that mobile though and you need to be within 3" of the Deredeo to benefit but if you had a Fortification to make them even harder to displace, its something you could do.

 

But this would only really be viable if you were running a Gunline. Only other way to make them tougher is the ZM RoW which forces them to be in B2B to benefit AKA Template Fodder when not in ZM.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Pretty much what I was thinking then, thanks for the feedback Slips.

 

The only issue I see is the 3'' aura ... so damn small. If it were a 6'' bubble I'd be onto it without another thought. 

[Slips]

Yeah, for its cost, the size is very small especially since its a model-per-model basis. If it was a single model in a unit had to be within 3" for the effect, cool, you can still sorta daisy chain it. But ugh.

 

Hope they buff it.

 

But yeah, as Scoring Troops for a Gunline, they'd be up there in terms of "Hard to kill"

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Yup, would be much more useful if only a portion of the unit would need to be in 3'' of the Deredeo.

 

Also, he comes in at a whooping 305 pts. when all is said and done, almost as much as a Knight.

[Lord Blackwood]

Stone Gauntlet  is really meh   (  IN MY EXPERIENCE )    

Though it certainly excels in zone mortalis , I dont think its big table play holds up compared to other ways to run yer army.  

Breachers  , though they got cheaper still dont perform all that well  outside of the confines of tight spaceships  

But  I am sure youve come to these conclusions well enough   just figured  Id leave my two cents int he till.