Brother Captain Spud Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Bummer. Is there anything or anyone i can take to improve my reserve roll reliability in a hammerfall strikeforce. I have a list planned out which i think will be very effective but I'm concerned about the force turning up piecemeal and being destroyed bit by bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4780011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I love HF-SF, fluffy as it is, but it surely is sub-par in terms of advantages vs. disadvantages. Increasing reserve manipulation is often done via vehicles (Damocles, Proteus, etc.) or fortifications. Vehicles must start the game in reserves themselves under HF-SF, thus effectively being denied their advantages. Fortifications are forbidden anyways. Matter of factly, the only things deployable in HF-SF are artillery and infantry units. And artillery spam can be fielded by almost any other list / concept as well. No need for HF-SF. The only true bonus HF-SF grants to your forces is the shrouded / pinning part upon DS'ing. As Imperial Fists all your Terminator units (and attached ICs in TDA) can access DS anyways for the same price increase. And if you really have to, you could DS one non-terminator infantry unit via Polux Void Commander trait. Essentially making the HF-SF RoW as superfluous as a sunday morning hangover. It's great for BS 5 infantry spam, sure. But that doesn't work to well in the tank-heavy 31st millenium, and the lack of reliable reserve manipulation makes it even worse. Brother Captain Spud 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4780280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Spud Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4782279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 If youre dead set on Hammer, I feel that some of the stronger units to use would be Seekers due to Scorpius rounds primarily and PE vs a mark with combis to taste or, combi vets. Shooty Warders as troops with Plasma Guns would be ok enough to fill as well. Otherwise, yeah, its not the easiest one to work with. Thinking about it, if Hammer Fall were in 8th ed 40k, its actually be really strong due to how reserves work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4782282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Spud Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Mmmm it sounds as if Hammerfall is not well regarded and has heaps of drawbacks. I've also seen a fair bit of criticism leveled at Stone Gauntlet which makws me wonder what ROW is the best for Imperial Fists? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4782519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Pride of the Legion ... without doubt. Your Legion Terminators get Deep Strike and even your bare bones Veteran Tacticals are sniping, rending, BS 5 killing machines. Those units now filling troop slots under PotL ? Yes please. Gorgoff and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4782550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Spud Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hi all What weapons do people thibk go best with vigil pattern storm shields? Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4791333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Chainfists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4792095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Issue: I'm trying to make the most effective, interesting and 'realistic' (something that makes sense to me) Stone Gauntlet force possible. It's based around a breach assault theme so units included need to fit thematically. Remember in SG lists balancing troop: elite & fast attack slots is a challenge so I can't take everything I want! Question: In terms of in game effectiveness what do you think is 'better' (damage output & survivability): 6 x Lascannon squad (5 x lascannons plus some upgrades) In a bunker with an ammo dump ~ 340pts Or 2 x laser destroyers batteries (elite) 1 x scorpius 225 pts giving me ~115pts to reinvest in my troop choices (breachers and 'armoured recon'((recon marines in rhinos)) The rest of the list is: Tooled up Praetor & Primus Medicae with a terminator command squad in a spartan (all with Storm Shields) (spartan takes up a heavy slot) 2 x 10 Breachers, each with an apothecary (taking up an elite slot) 2 x 5 recon squads, each in a rhino 2 x quad launchers 1 x Contemptor (fist and chain fist) 1 x venator 3000pts Thoughts greatly appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4814619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Hmm, I think I'd prefer the laser destroyers and scorpius over the lascannon squad because for less pts you're getting more versatile firepower-scorpius for anti infantry, laser destroyer for anti tank. That leaves you even 4/4 troops to elites so that should work. As far as the rest of your list goes, your troop choices look very basic and not terribly useful. Breachers especially are far more effective in squads of fifteen. The extra pts from taking the laser destroyers gives you a few pts to play around with, but I think you need more. I'd actually drop the apothecaries, take more bodies and some special weapons on those suads so they are actually contributing to the list instead of just taking up space. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4815402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) I'm thinking about swapping the laser destroyer on the rapiers for graviton cannons. I've used the spare points to bolster a Breacher squad to 15. I always run apothercaries / Primus Medicaes in SG units (SS terminators &breachers) - for me T5 doesn't mean a great deal in 30K unless you have the FnP to maximise the bonus - they always earn their points back. Edited July 11, 2017 by K3nn3rs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4816337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Spud Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I always run apothercaries / Primus Medicaes in SG units (SS terminators &breachers) - for me T5 doesn't mean a great deal in 30K unless you have the FnP to maximise the bonus - they always earn their points back. Same, T5 is nice but with FNP it becomes something wonderful to behold. I did loose almost a whole squad to moral recently but thats the dice gods for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4823008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve! Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Hey folks, new to the Imperial Fists and I really fancy doing an elite terminator/veteran force, I have come up with a 3000pts list but I am not sure if it would absolutely suck on the table or not. I don't need to be overly competitive but at the same time I don't want to lose all the time haha.What do you guys reckon? ++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [3000pts] ++ + HQ + Primus Medicae [130pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, None . Consul: Primus Medicae Sigismund [230pts] + Troops + Legion Terminator Squad [590pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour . Legion Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured Ceramite, Quad Lascannon Sponsons, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter . Legion Terminator Sergeant: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legiones Astartes: VII Legion Terminator Squad [490pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Land Raider Phobos . Legion Terminator Sergeant: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legiones Astartes: VII Legion Terminator Squad [490pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Land Raider Phobos . Legion Terminator Sergeant: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legion Terminators: Chainfist, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield . Legiones Astartes: VII Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [260pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web . Legiones Astartes: VII Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [260pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web . Legiones Astartes: VII Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [260pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web . Legiones Astartes: VII + Heavy Support + Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon [290pts] . Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Cyclonic Melta Lance, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Leviathan Siege Claw + Allegiance + Legion and Allegiance: VII: Imperial Fists, Loyalist Rite of War: Pride of the Legion ++ Total: [3000pts] ++ Edited August 2, 2017 by steve! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4840259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I've been playing around with a similar lists. I suggest you upgrade your Primus to have a power Gauntlet and storm shield - he is after all a combat character in his own right. Flare shield on the spartan. Dozer blades on all of the vehicles. Multi meltas on the rhinos - gives them an extra role. I'd consider removing the leviathan - without a DDPits going to struggle to keep up with your force and for me it doesn't fit your theme; elite vehicle based army. I love chain fists and like to run 5 on my command squad - some people will say it's over kill but for me, once you consider casualties and poor dice rolls it justifies the points. That said I think you have too many! I'd keep the spartan units as is and perhaps consider Tartaros with AP3 weapons and vilkit chargers/ combi bolters and assault cannon for one squad; they can target other units and perhaps something slightly different for the third (or replace with Templars to mix up the Army). With left over points from the leviathan and maybe deleting the third vet squad think about some support assets; a brace of Sicarans to add more firepower, scorpius (cheap and highly effective), javelins or jetbikes to protect the flanks/ harass the enemy. Just some ideas to consider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4842918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve! Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I've been playing around with a similar lists. I suggest you upgrade your Primus to have a power Gauntlet and storm shield - he is after all a combat character in his own right. Flare shield on the spartan. Dozer blades on all of the vehicles. Multi meltas on the rhinos - gives them an extra role. I'd consider removing the leviathan - without a DDPits going to struggle to keep up with your force and for me it doesn't fit your theme; elite vehicle based army. I love chain fists and like to run 5 on my command squad - some people will say it's over kill but for me, once you consider casualties and poor dice rolls it justifies the points. That said I think you have too many! I'd keep the spartan units as is and perhaps consider Tartaros with AP3 weapons and vilkit chargers/ combi bolters and assault cannon for one squad; they can target other units and perhaps something slightly different for the third (or replace with Templars to mix up the Army). With left over points from the leviathan and maybe deleting the third vet squad think about some support assets; a brace of Sicarans to add more firepower, scorpius (cheap and highly effective), javelins or jetbikes to protect the flanks/ harass the enemy. Just some ideas to consider. Thanks for the feedback, will take it into consideration as I am still messing around with different list ideas. All I really know for sure is I want vets, termies and Land Raiders haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4843776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Spud Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Thats a pretty solid looking list. What do you have of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4915304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Can you take Hammerfall as an allied detachment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4918885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 This might be one of the RoWs that fall under "Primary Detachment Only" but reading my copy of LA:AODL, I see no such restrictions off the bat. The only restriction for it is that it cannot have fortifications or an Allied Detachment; being taken AS an Allied Detachment should be 100% doable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Re-looking at LA:AoDAL now... the line from Book VI about the Legion-specific Rites of War being Primary Detachment only is not there! A lot of them have abilities that only affect the Primary Detachment, but it still looks like they’re all available for Primary or Allied now (with some specific exceptions). Never mind - missed the key paragraph. Edited October 29, 2017 by Caillum Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I'm pretty sure the line you guys are thinking about is on the top of page 105? It's in a titled section at the start of the Book VI Legion-specific rites, and it still forbids them from being anything but Primary. Hammerfall Discotheque is definitely under that section. I was double-checking Last of the Serrated Sun a few days ago and had to search for it, myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Ah, I was reading the wrong page in LA:AoDAL - they are still Primary Detachment only. Sorry! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Thanks for the answear guys. Hammerfall strikes me (lol) as a perfect allied detachment for many sworn brothers choices IF have. Alas, as they cannot be taken as an allied and as a primary other LA budies are out of question, well... a pity. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 Yeah, it very much feels like the perfect RoW for an AD but, for some reason, FW decided against it being able to do so and thus further disappoint me with regards to it :\ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Yeah, it very much feels like the perfect RoW for an AD but, for some reason, FW decided against it being able to do so and thus further disappoint me with regards to it :\Maybe FW didn't want you to play allies at a regular basis and wanted to emphasize on the fact that the legions bring their full might to bear whenever they field their unique Rite of War. Charlo 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4919970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Shame. Taking Hammerfall as an allied detachment would have been the only viable way of making it work; using the primary detachment to have reserve and deep strike manipulation (command rhino, comms relay, etc) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292535-hh10-imperial-fists-tactics/page/59/#findComment-4920406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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