[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[1ncarnadine]

IMO Tartaros is still a big stretch. Rules are currently clear - no shields (still cool to use the models and run them as standard terminator). I feel the consensus is that they are not ok.

 

Command Squads is still a grey area - I feel it’s ok (and I think the consensus is that it’s ok) but always check with event organisers / my opponent first.

 

Regarding this, one of the new rules writer (Anuj) is actually an Imperial Fists player. Apparently the storm shield thing is one of his bugbears and he plans on making absolutely sure that it's clear that Tartaros do have access. It's not on that FAQ sheet they've had at events, but he has mentioned it in a few places.

 

Like this one, from penddraig on h30k:

 

 

Firstly, they confirmed that Imperial Fist Tartarus pattern terminators can take storm shields.

^That was Anuj, speaking at the Age of Darkness Forum at the Weekender.

 

so... not yet? But when they do release an official FAQ this will probably be on it. Seems very likely.

Edited February 17, 2018 by LetsYouDown

[StruManChu]

Anyone out there using Fortifications? No one in my group/meta really does, and I'm looking at doing something different. I've run an Aegis a couple of times, but they're just not big enough for 2 x 20 Breachers and the other gun line bits and pieces that camp in my Deployment Zone. I think I want something a bit more substantial, but that isn't going to cost me in the Shooting Phase.

[Charlo]

Eye of Horus podcast swear by a Heavy Support Squad in a Bunker with Ammo Dump.

 

Then you have a nice chunky wall the enemy needs to shoot through while your tank-hunting super accurate lascannons go to town.

[Gorgoff]

Eye of Horus podcast swear by a Heavy Support Squad in a Bunker with Ammo Dump.

 

Then you have a nice chunky wall the enemy needs to shoot through while your tank-hunting super accurate lascannons go to town.

I can only second that. It works like a charm.

[K3nn3rs]

Remember - you can add barricades to the bunker, effectively giving your HSS protection in the bunker and your breachers / tanks cover from the barricades.

 

I’ve been considering getting a firestorm redoubt myself...

[StruManChu]

Brilliant! Cheers guys. I'll grab a bunker and another ADL to use as barricades.

 

Probably need some more lascannons as well... :D

[Greshym]

So I've spent a long time deliberating, then even longer reading this whole topic and arrived at the conclusion I would really like to start an Imperial Fists 30k army in particular a Sigismund/Templar army. So I know Slips is the go to guy for advice and direction at writing an army list and that we share the love of building a thematic army, as well as one that's able to deal the damage. So I've spent the time and thought out what I would like to go in the list and what I would like it to represent and now I'm just looking for advice and pointer on whether my idea's will work or if everything will fall flat on its face.

   Starting out I will obviously be wanting to run Sigismund as my Warlord, I love the model (with the helmet head swap from the Templar kit) and I like his rules. Most importantly though he will be the thematic backbone of my list. I'm looking to build an all power armoured force that relies on executing a targeted unit/character and then moving on to the next target as rapidly as possible. I was thinking of running the standard Sigismund, Apothecary and Templar unit that can dish out the damage and survive most return damage, where I started to slow down was when it came to transport choice. For some unknown reason Forgeworld have decided that an elite combat unit wouldn't carry grenades in to a battle despite almost EVERYBODY else doing so and thus they are stuck with relying on an assault vehicle to get them in position and allow them to charge successfully into combat and this soaks up a lot of points. I then started thinking about different approaches to the "get to them and hit them"  tactic and pondered a deep striking style list and really liked the idea of having a couple of Contemptors in drop pods to get the heavy hitters where I need them fast so I started thinking a drop pod or even a Assault Ram might be nice for my Templar death-star but wasn't sure what the general opinion is on the different options or if the Land Raider is the best choice.

   In summary (since I don't want this to be a massive wall of text) what I'm looking to have in my army is;

1. Sigismund/Templar death- star (means of delivering them up for debate)
2. Contemptors (drop pods and load outs up for debate)
3. Additional troop options to fill up the compulsory slot
4. Possibility of jetbikes (for no other reason than I love the models and feel they would fit the high speed feel)

As for the all important "How many points?" question I'm aiming for an army that I can start at around 1.5k and build up to 3k. Any thoughts, ideas, pointers or even criticism is more than appreciated! Thanks in advance

[Charlo]

Good first post and you're already ahead having an idea you want to go after!

 

Templar Brethren have an advantage over the traditional death-star (Terminators) and that is transport space. You can fit a nice squad, medic and Siggy himself in a classic Land Raider!

 

Obviously they won't stand up to Terminators (outside of the Templar himself) but they will absolutely mulch anything in power armour.

 

Contemptors are great when paired with land raiders, offering more target saturation for anti-tank.

 

For troops... Well, keep to the theme with MORE Templar Brethren as Siggy unlocks them. They can take a Land Raiders as dedicated so even more to the theme.

 

Multi-Melta jetbikes skyslayers act as a great source of anti-tank that are super mobile and complement the theme.

 

After this you can start to shape everything with Rites of War. Loads of possibilities there! You could even forego the land raiders for dreadclaws and run something like orbital assault.

 

Had a quick okay in Battlescribe and for 2500 you can fit;

 

Sigismund

2 Apothecary

2x 8 Templar Brethren with with combat shields and a Solarite Gauntlet. Land Raider Phobos each.

2x Contemptor with fist, chainfist and grav guns in drop pods.

5 Skyslayers with Multi Meltas

Sicaran Battle Tank

 

Sorted!

[Slips]

Well, the main advantage of running Templar Lists with Siggy is that they become troop options which you can use to fill your Compulsory Selections which frees up the rest of the section for you to grab units like Plasma Gun TSS'

 

For your dreads, it depends. If you're not bringing AT from other sources or are unable to, then the dreads will be one of the more likely sources to do so for you. So Power/Chain Fist combo w/ 2 Grav Guns gives you 2 Haywire shots per dread and an S10 Chainfist if you get into melee, and then you have Leviathans with the Melta Lance.

 

If you're going for a fast in-your-face force, then having Dreadclaws be the primary transport for your assault units would be the best fit; Termites would be a good option for your shooty elements once theyre out there. Problem is, in a force like this, they would take up your FA Slots of which you'd only have 3.

 

For Jetbikes, if your FA slots are going to be filled up with Transports (since they cant be taken as dedicated), then you're going to be looking at Skyslayer squadrons in Heavy Support.

 

For a starter list, you could just do:

• Siggy (230)
• Templar x8 w/ Sol Glove, x8 Shields (melta bombs if you have the spare points) (~280ish)
• Templar x9 w/ Sol Glove, x9 Shields (^^^) (~300ish)
• Apothecaries x2 w/ Artificer Armour; Power Sword/Augury Scanner to taste. (~45-60 each)
• Dreadclaw (115)
• Dreadclaw (115)
• Contemptor w/ Chain Fist, Power Fist, 2x Grav Gun, DDP (~300)

The above would more or less come out to roughly 1.4k points or thereabouts. Not the most tactically flexible army at 1.5k since you're basically going all in to nuke your opponent but at 3k-3.5k you should be able to add enough extra stuff on to fill in the gaps and round out the army.

[Greshym]

Thanks for the replies. No surprise that Slips gave fantastic advice, that starter list was spot on! Taking that as the starting point I’ve been trying to build on it to take it to 2k, 2.5k and the final 3k, hit a little snag and then I checked the forum and saw that Charlo mentioned the Orbital Assault RoW and I’m loving it! Best of all it’s frees up my fast attack slots for me. Regrettably it’s going to be a while before I can test out the list cause the upcoming Drukhari book is calling my name and I can’t resist!!

[K3nn3rs]

Termite + seekers for the win?

 

Potentially with a vigilator and apothercary to help keep them alive (disembarking into terrain).

 

Would adding combi plasma make them too expensive?

 

In the past I’ve used a dreadclaw to deploy them so that I can all but guarantee them targeting their ‘marked for death’ target. I think a termite can do this just as well, leaving my single dreadclaw to deploy an assault unit (terminators, dual fist Contemptor, Templar Bretheren or a buffed Command squad).

 

Thoughts?

[Gorgoff]

Termite + seekers for the win?

 

Potentially with a vigilator and apothercary to help keep them alive (disembarking into terrain).

 

Would adding combi plasma make them too expensive?

 

In the past I’ve used a dreadclaw to deploy them so that I can all but guarantee them targeting their ‘marked for death’ target. I think a termite can do this just as well, leaving my single dreadclaw to deploy an assault unit (terminators, dual fist Contemptor, Templar Bretheren or a buffed Command squad).

 

Thoughts?

That's what I gonna do with mine too.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Termite + seekers for the win?

 

Potentially with a vigilator and apothercary to help keep them alive (disembarking into terrain).

 

Would adding combi plasma make them too expensive?

 

In the past I’ve used a dreadclaw to deploy them so that I can all but guarantee them targeting their ‘marked for death’ target. I think a termite can do this just as well, leaving my single dreadclaw to deploy an assault unit (terminators, dual fist Contemptor, Templar Bretheren or a buffed Command squad).

 

Thoughts?

It's not bad, but until IF/IW/IH/Sallies get their inevitable RoW allowing them to use it, it's no better than a Dreadclaw, unless you absolutely NEED those 35pts difference.

 

It's a dreadclaw without Jink. You're not killing anything with the Grind, or Ram (S9), and you are likely doing more damage to yourself.

 

I'm AFB to check if you can still bring down the Dreadclaw Zooming, but if you can, then you DS out of Range or LoS of any AckAck, and then Flat Out Move 18", descend next turn, move 6, be where you need to be.

 

It's not bad, especially with the BS boost from IF, but it's not Mor Deythan, and it takes up 2 Fast Attack choices meaning only 1 Lightning-P.

[Gorgoff]

Unfortunately you can't bring down a Dreadclaw zooming but you can boost out of dangerzones.

Just like Maverick. ;)

Still a good combination with the Termite if you ask me. That are four units causing mayhem in the enemies backfield.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Unfortunately you can't bring down a Dreadclaw zooming but you can boost out of dangerzones.

Just like Maverick. ;)

Still a good combination with the Termite if you ask me. That are four units causing mayhem in the enemies backfield.

Tbh, it was good that they fixed that abuse, but I'm still sad I can't use that abuse myself

[Gorgoff]

 

Unfortunately you can't bring down a Dreadclaw zooming but you can boost out of dangerzones.

Just like Maverick. ;)

Still a good combination with the Termite if you ask me. That are four units causing mayhem in the enemies backfield.

Tbh, it was good that they fixed that abuse, but I'm still sad I can't use that abuse myself

Edited April 6, 2018 by Gorgoff

[Hesh Kadesh]

Ah crap yeah, i forgot about that. Knew it applied to troops, but not the HQ.

[StruManChu]

I'm sure this has been asked before, so apologies in advance.

 

I have 10 Cataphractii Terminators to go with Dorn. I've got 10 shields coming in the post from FW. I don't need to give all 10 termies shields because I've got some other Cataphractii HQs that could use them too. That said, it would be pretty cool to have that many 3++ saves alongside the Big Man, and I've got sufficient firepower in other parts of the list that losing a few bolter shots here won't matter too much.

 

I've got Chainfists, Power Fists and Hammers set aside for this unit. I'm unlikely to be able to magnetise them, because I don't have enough spare shoulders, and the arms are completely different for Fists and Hammers, so I'm going to need to be gluing them, which means that whatever I choose will be set.

 

My question is - Does the balance between Chainfists, Power fists and Hammers matter all that much as long as there's a variety? I'm planning on having at least three of each weapon in the squad, but indecision is making me procrastinate. 

[K3nn3rs]

I’d go with at least 4 chainfists, perhaps a hammer on the Sgt for variety / rule of cool and the rest power fists to help keep the cost down.

[Charlo]

Get a nice variety. Can always throw in some combi weapons for spice.

[K3nn3rs]

I’ve just purchased Dorn and this is ‘version 77’ of the 3000pts list I want to run him in:

 

HQ:

Forge Lord: Solarite power gauntlet; melta bombs; rad grenades; boarding shield 135

(Commander of the Armoured component of the XIX Company - go with Huscarls and Dorn)

 

4 Terminators: 4× Vigil pattern storm shield; 4× power weapon; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; power weapon) 250

(Dorns Huscarls - power weapons will be a mixture of bladed weapons counted as power axes - with rad grenades and furious charge they will instant kill T4 units in the charge {I wanted rule of cool with the blades & shield look but not to hamstring me too much in game})

 

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

(Seconded from the XIX Company by Dorn)

 

4 Terminators: 4× Vigil pattern storm shield; 4× chainfist; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; chainfist) 275

• Land Raider Phobos: dozer blade; armoured ceramite 250

(Goes after super heavies / lights / supports Dorn)

 

5 Veteran Space Marines: + 1 Veteran Sergeant 112

• Rhino: dozer blade 40

(Marksman - tactical objective scorers)

 

5 Veteran Space Marines: + 1 Veteran Sergeant 112

• Rhino: dozer blade 40

(marksman - tactical objective scorers)

 

7 Seekers: 7× combi-weapon; + 1 Strike Leader (artificer armour) 295

• Land Raider Proteus: hull-mounted twin-linked lascannon; dozer blade; explorator augury web 265

(I love the ability to scout, move, deploy and deliver an alpha strike against their ‘marked for death’unit, whilst disrupting the enemies reserves)

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

(Tank hunting / Shute down enemy Super heavies)

 

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron

• Vindicator: machine spirit; mine plough 155

(Tactical flexible with extended range - can target armour/ infantry form effectively 36”)

 

Whirlwind Scorpius 115

(Targets infantry [MEQ] and at push armour)

 

Rogal Dorn 385

(Deploys with Huscarls and FL Spartan)

 

2,999 points

 

What do you think - worth a spin?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Seems a okay, but with the proviso that your opponents are aware you want to bring Dorn.

 

My standard caveat is that I tend to feel that Primarchs are the worst thing to happen to the 30k game, because how innately imbalancing they are. Some are powerful as all hell: Horus, Corax, Russ, Magnus, Super Saiyan Lorgar, while others really struggle, so even having Primarch vs Primarch isn't a fun way to run.

 

The issue then comes that the meta develops into 'who can kill a Primarch', and you either can, and completely nullify your opponents centrepiece model, robbing them of the chance to use such an iconic figure, or, you don't and either run away fast enough so at to not lose, or you just lose without a chance to win, because a Primarch beatsticks harder.

 

Games basocally devolve into who can charge their Primarch into another the fastest, but then that gets boring as positioning and tactics get thrown out the window.

 

As for the list, I really do like the kdea of running an AxeMan and Shield Terminator unit, pretty brave to be doing that with the Terms. I can't help but feel you'd do better runningthe Primarchs Chosen RoW, dropping the FL and taking Thunder Hammers which look like Axes (Storm Axes, or something).

 

You seem to have distinct aversion to units, though. 5 Terminators, and 17 MEQ's at 3k points will usually be enough to guarantee that you never win a game.

 

Also, as you gave objective grabbers, you have no purpose taking Vets over standard tacs. Twice the wounds, similar melee, slightly better shooting.

 

I think you have too many vehicles.

[K3nn3rs]

Hi Hesh Kadesh - thanks for the reply.

 

Primarchs are pretty common these days, every list should have a means to deal with one, so I have no concerns about taking Dorn.

 

I’ve played plenty of Primarchs and have never really fealt that they’ve knocked the game out of balance (with the exception of Magnus).

 

I do have a low model count - but it’s slightly more then you’ve counted - 10 terminators and 21 MEQs - with everything scoring less the FL. they’re also all in transport which should boost there survivability.

 

I find troops v firepower is always a tricky balance to reach. I’m hoping that this list provides enough protection to keep my troops around for longer and enough firepower to remove my opponents troops.

 

I went with vets because of marksman - outflank will be useful as late objective grabbers and sniper is useful across a range of theats - I also needed something cheap to give me some more options and full squads of tactical squads is marginally more expensive.

 

I have some bladed weapons to represent power axes so that precludes thunder hammers. The plan is with Dorns furious charge and the FL rad Grenades they can still instant kill MEQ on the charge.

[Hesh Kadesh]

If you're not playing pure WYSIWYG anyway, then Thunder Hammers can be anything.

 

5 Outflanking Bolters is nothing, and is jo different than having Reserved 10 Wound tac Squads which cost the same.

 

If Primarchs are as common as you say, how come you don't have a Primarch Counter? Dorn is one of the worst in a duel, the Chainfist squad can do okay, but most will be able to kill 2 or 3 in a turn.

 

Let us know how it goes though, I know that everyone's Meta is different everywhere :)

[K3nn3rs]

I think you owe it to your opponent to run WYSIWYG - especially in events which is where i play alot of my games but I agree hammers would be more effective (though for the points I prefer chain fists).

 

Regarding my counter -Primarch strategy - my seekers do the job pretty well - they tend to destroy or heavily attrite the enemy Primarchs body guard leaving the Primarch vulnerable to the fire power of the rest of the army or I use concentrated fire to destroy the Primarchs body Guard and allow the seekers to finish the job.

 

I’d also (game dependent) be content to feed Dorn and his body guard into the enemy Primarch Unit whilst I played the game / objectives.

 

My list is pretty lean - tac squads are more expensive then my vet squads - what would you remove to squeeze them in? The ability to outflank is very useful for late game objective grabbing - tacticals clearly don’t have that ability / versatility.

Edited May 28, 2018 by K3nn3rs