[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Slips]

New FAQ out!

 

Tartaros can take Storm Shields! ✅

 

Sniper Vets are gone!

 

Seekers are the new king! (reduced combi weapon cost / all models in a unit can take combi weapons / better choice now that sniper vets are gone)

 

Champions are an interesting choice again! (they can take paragon blades).

 

Phalanx Warders and Templar Brethern remain unchanged

Actually, read the changes they made to Boarding Shields; Phalanx Warders, and breachers, basically got mini-nerfed in that they dont get the +1A for Charging anymore.

 

Templar Brethren were already a decent unit so they didn't really need any changes.

[K3nn3rs]

I just read it again - it doesn’t say that - just that they can’t get +1A for 2 close combat weapons (no change).

[Slips]

I just read it again - it doesn’t say that - just that they can’t get +1A for 2 close combat weapons (no change).

Fair, I might have just misread it hah!

 

It does mean that any Breaching Shield IC you have WILL have to join a like-equipped unit to gain the benefit of the "defensive grenades"

[K3nn3rs]

Yeah - but to be honest I think that’s fair - it was a bit of a ‘gamey’ mechanic. I also like the fact models armed with Breacher shields can’t throw blind grenades anymore (not a nerf for me as I never did it).

[Slips]

Alright, so a few thoughts with the FAQ now that I've had a day to digest it:

1. Heavy Bolter on your vets: 100% not worth it. Get a more worthwhile upgrade.
2. Only seemingly worthwhile Vet Tactics for us are: Machine Killers and Xenobane (especially vs Mechanicum). Might as well take complementary Specials and Squadwide Combis; Melta for Machine Killer and Plasma or even Grenade (for the S6 Ap4 Krak shot - especially since this one is multi-use) for Xeno. Templar do Weapon Masters better; Stalkers is blegh unless you NEED to outflank.
3. Vets are still better troops than regular tacs.
4. For any other combi usage, we still have a niche with deepstriking combi terminators. Seekers are also now very much worthwhile since they have the cheapest access to combi-weapons now AND their squad sergeant can officially take one now too; also LRs in the FA slot.
5. If youre running Stone Gauntlet, a Paragon Blade'd Legion Champion (Boarding Shield to taste) is a VERY strong choice to include. Even outside of RoWs that limit Centurion-Consul choices he's a viable choice now. That said, do not take one if you're going to be taking any weapon that isnt a Solarite Power Gauntlet or Paragon Blade.
6. Augury Scanners: take them on everything that has access to it forever. They're even better than they were since they just straight up give interceptor to every weapon in the squad and doesn't have funky wording anymore.
7. Nartheciums only affecting Legiones Astartes is a nerf to Primarchs but hey. Hope they fix the Space Wolves Healing Balms and WE Ghalan Surlak if thats the case.
8. IF you have a Thunderhawk, Dorn and 1085 points spare to include both into your list (whilst also only requiring a LoW allowance for Dorns 385), then slap Aetos Dios into your lists because:

• It now has Transport Capacity 40 up from the standard 30 for a regular thunderhawk.
• It Will Not Die and a Void Shield (which is had prior)
• Armored Ceramite, Chaff Launcher and Void-Crafted Hull (chaff launcher being a 4++ vs missiles which it had previously)
• All for cheaper than a regularly equipped Thunderhawk (which has less capacity) whilst sharing a LoW slot and not counting against the 25% limit.

 

And, the biggest one for me since it basically Vindicates me:

• Tartaros
• Terminators
• With
• Storm
• Shields

Edited July 10, 2018 by Slips

[BattleBrotherJohn]

Hello.

 

Its been a long time since I have been on the boards , but am getting back on the Heresy train.

 

Just catching up with how the HH scene currently stands  before I start planning my army list.

 

How would people recommend I run Veteran squads ( the double heavy bolter load is now redundant ) and Cataphractii squads ( teleporting shield and fist or combi bolter ) for games against other marines  ? 

 

Thanks

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Hello.

 

...  ( the double heavy bolter load is now redundant ) ...

 

Out of curiosity: Why ?

[BattleBrotherJohn]

Slips comment above my post.

 

Or is it still a worthwhile option ?

[Gorgoff]

Slips comment above my post.

 

Or is it still a worthwhile option ?

Heavy Bolters look awesome. That is and ever had been the main reason to take them.

[Slips]

Rule of cool is all well and good but this is a tactica thread.

 

HBs are now redudant since its 20pts for S5 Ap4 Heavt 3 at 36 or Assault 3 at 18 gun without the access to sniper to make the most out of the 3 BS5 shots per HB equipped marine. Itll only ever be of debatable worth vs Mechanicum Thallax or things with a 4+ armour save and weaker.

 

Might as well take the hit to BS and just use Plasma Guns which perform better in general due to 7th editions armor save mechanics. If we had 8ths armor mod mechanic, then yeah, keep the HBs, theyre worth it. We dont, so they arent vs Marine armies.

 

Or just take Meltaguns for ID on T4 models and some extra antitank when coupled with machine killers.

 

Hell, it might even be more worthwhile to just use the 40 pts per squad of heavy bolters you would have spent on equipping them with combi weapons.

 

In short, with xenobane: plasma and melta are better due to higher S and Ap.

Machine killers: melta and plasma again; a fringe case for combi-grenades and their unlimited use Krak Shots can be made here.

Weapon Masters: we have templar

Scouts: combi weapons for more of a one-and-done punch; or Plasma/melta

 

Flamers are good in ZM or vs Hordes; go for heavy flamers where possible; same for combi-flamers or, if you somehow need the range, combi-grenades for frag shots but thats very iffy.

Missile Launcher might actually be worthwhile now since they also get suspensors with vet squads especially with Xenobane and Krak Missiles.

 

This is pretty much where I stand on the whole IF vet weapon loadouts since losing Marksmen.

[Kisada]

Any advice on how to use Dorn?

[Slips]

He can do a few things:

• Chew through high model count units thanks to Reaping Blow and Rampage
• ID Multi-Wound models without EW thanks to Sundering Blow (great against mechanicum bots)
• Standard Primarch + Retinue squad; though hes not the best primarch duelist; WS8 and never being able to get wounded on 2s (only ever 3+) helps.

Dorns a primarch and can do primarch things. In a Stone Gauntlet list specifically or if you just want to use Phalanx Warders, you can buff him to WS9 when charged which can be funny but has marginal in-game benefit unless vs WS4. It would also let you make use of his Salvo 3/5 Rending Bolter (though I do wish it wasnt Salvo).

 

If you have a Thunderhawk lying around, you can also potentially include Aetos Dios which is a very good value proposition (for what it is) all things considered.

[Gorgoff]

"If you have a Thunderhawk lying around"

As you do. :D

Cheered me up that early in the morning. ;)

[Kisada]

I guess I was more wondering what kind of list to put around him.

 

This is what I have so far completed (close to complete)

 

Polux

Master of Signal

5 cataphractii. 2 chainfist, 1 assault. Magnetized

6 combi-melta vets

20 tactical marines

5 support plasma

10 heavy support lascannon

Sicaran with lascannon sponson

Leviathan. Stormcannon. Drill.

3 rhino. Pintle mounted MM

LR Phobos.

 

Works out to about 2500.

I have a Falchion I’m working on to make it 3k. But I also have Dorn unbuilt because I just didn’t see how I’d use him best.

 

I’m not into being super competitive WAAC. I don’t think it’s in the spirit of the game. But I also don’t think it’s a good game if I’m LAAC because my list is junk and my opponent just rolls right over me (now if he rolls over me because my tactics are junk that’s a different story lol)

[Slips]

Make the Terminators a 4 (or 3 with Pollux and another PA HQ) and shove them in the LR with Dorn. Rush it up the board and punch stuff. Simplest application of him with what you've got, really.

[Lord Blackwood]

 

 

And, the biggest one for me since it basically Vindicates me:

• Tartaros
• Terminators
• With
• Storm
• Shields

 

 

Oh  snap , am I  about to play Horus Heresy again. 

[Charlo]

 

 

 

And, the biggest one for me since it basically Vindicates me:

• Tartaros
• Terminators
• With
• Storm
• Shields

 

Oh  snap , am I  about to play Horus Heresy again. 

 

YEAH BUDDY!

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, the biggest one for me since it basically Vindicates me:

• Tartaros
• Terminators
• With
• Storm
• Shields

Oh snap , am I about to play Horus Heresy again.

YEAH BUDDY!

I don't know what is going on but

 

YEAH BUDDY!

[Slips]

Something I also forget to mention about Dorn that someone using him should always have in mind:

 

He gives the squad he joins Crusader AND Furious Charge.

• So, on a charge, if out numbered, his Potential of 9 attacks are at S7 or half as many (rounding down) at S9 Instant Death.
• Coupled with his +D3 to combat resolution, getting a +D3 to Sweeping Advances means if you automatically win and sweep on any combat that ends in a tie OR can turn a loss (eh fearless) or escape difference of 1-3 on the roll off into a win/sweep (ties end in the combat winners favor for sweeps).
• The +D3 to combat resolution is army wide; coupled with buffing your whole armies LD to 10 while hes on the table and you're not likely to lose combat (unless very badly) and even less likely to run if you do.

Never forget these tidbits if possible because they can do some nasty work that your opponent might not be expecting.

[Charlo]

100%

 

Dorn used to be mostly a buff monkey for reasonable points, then they made his weapon better and now he's a monster.

[Kisada]

I played my 2nd game of HH the other night vs TS.

Polux, MoS, 2 squads of terminators (5 indomitus w/ VSS/TH in a phobos and 5 cataphractii deepstriking)

6 combi melta vets in a rhino, 2 squads of 10 tacticals in rhinos w/MM.

Sicaran, lascannon sponsons, leviathan (storm cannon, siege claw), 10 heavy support lascannon.

 

Fun game, my opponent is a friend and he could easily crush me I'm sure but that's not really the point of our little 30k group.  He had Amon and some other wizard, 2 squads of the wizard terminators, 2 squads of tartaros lightning claws, some magic snipers, leviathan, contemptor, arcus.

 

Things I learned ... dice are fickle.  Polux and the cataphractii DS in and smashed Amon and those pesky magic snipers but he ended up taking some wounds on overwatch and dying to the HBolter of the arcus after it's turret exploded.

 

Killed his leviathan with my combi vets.  Yah.  He exploded in my face.  Boo.

VSS can only protect you from so much ... I don't think those guys earned their points back ... maybe next time.  Also what even is the point of having indomitus as an option?  Need to paint up my tartaros from BoP.

My leviathan had great rolls.  Great overwatch rolls, and just smashed whatever he got into combat with.

 

Lastly ... this game has a lot of remember ... I'll get it eventually (hopefully)

 

I'm hosting a mega battle at my place (10 players if everyone who said yes shows up).  I'm using basically the same list but adding a falchion, dropping the hammer terminators, and increasing my vets to a full 10 man with 2 meltagun (I felt like they had nothing to do after they shot their combi meltas).

 

Thanks for the advice on Dorn ... I'll definitely work on getting him painted up ... been trying to figure out what recipe/scheme I should go with.

 

How has everyone else been doing?  I'd like to make a Stone Gauntlet list eventually and also a list with Sigismund and Templar

[Lord Cobalt]

Hello to all!

I am completely new to this forum, warhammer gaming and modeling also. I decided to start with 30K and from fluff reasons I want to play IF. Basics for my army would by from 1 box of Prospero and 1 box of Calth (so for start infantry-heavy Pride of Legion), I read all of thic topics but with all of the revisions and opinions it is very big, so I will ask few particular questions.

 

1) (Terminator) bodyguards: In this topic there is several times written about 5-men bodyguards. In my rules are bodyguards described as 2 chosen warriors and 1 flag bearer. How is it and how to play it?

 

2) Terminator squads weaponry: I have 5 tartaros and 5 cata terminators.I bought 5 Storm shield to play with them. How to arm them?

My plan is to arm tartaros squad with shields and play them as cc specialists. So, should I use 5 shields and 5 cc or 4 shields and 1 heavy weapon? I can use reaper ac or heavy flamer and from these 2 for cc squad more likely heavy flamer. 5 shields or 4 and heavy flamer?

Cata squad would probably be combi-bolters and cc weapons. And I am thinking of adding the reaper ac (or the flamer?) so probably 4 combis and ac. Could that be usable?

 

3) (Terminator) Praetor weapons: The praetor looks the best as cc specialist. How to play it? One way could be use one of the shields (the shield freed by adding heavy weapon to tartaros squad). But the best looks for me 2 cc weapons. Could and should I play Paragon blade+Solarite gauntlet?

 

4) Which consul is good for this type of army? Could I play praetor and consul both?

Edited November 26, 2018 by Lord Cobalt

[Charlo]

Welcome aboard Lord Cobalt, good to have you aboard. The VIIth Legion are SOLID and a great choice for a beginner.

 

Before I answer your questions, I'd say it might be best to avoid Pride of the Legion to begin with. The Calth and Prospero sets will give you more than enough infantry to run some normal Tactical squads. The choice is totally up to you, but between the extra Veteran rules and other bits it might be best to keep it simple to start!

 

1) A Standard Terminator unit is in the Elites section and is 5 man strong minimum. The Squad with a Flag Bearer and two Warriors is a Command Squad (and you can add more members). These can be taken by a Preator as a bodyguard if he has Terminator Armour. The flag is really good as it gives a 6" fearless bubble, as well as allowing your Preator to fit in a standard Land Raider along with 4 members of a command squad.

 

2) I'd give the Tartaros Terminators the Shields (if you feel up to the conversions!) as they are very powerful with the 3+ Invulnerable save, being able to sweeping advance still. Arm them with a mix of Chainfists/ Power Fists/ Power Axes. If you want some ranged punch feel free to give a shield to your Preator too. The Cataphactii have a 4+ Invulnerable save anyway, and can be made into an all purpose unit. The Heavy weapons aren't really that worth it, i'd go for a Plasma Blaster or some Combi-weapons instead (Melta/ Flamer/ Plasma), with Plasma probably being the best. OR you can take an Assault Cannon, which is a nice all around weapon.

 

3) Ideally you want him in Tartaros Terminator Armour (of which you'll have one spare if you make a 4 man command squad!) with a Shield and then you have a choice between a Paragon Blade or Solarite Power Gauntlet. Both are very good, it just comes down to if you want Speed or Power.

 

4) You can indeed play a Consul and a Preator. The Consul is just an upgrade to a Centurion. You have up to 3 HQ choices, so this would be a second one. All of the Consuls are useful, however an easy choice would be a Primus Medicae in Terminator Armour, to give the Feel No Pain rule to a unit of terminators or a Chaplain to boost their combat skills. However depending on the rest of your army others are valid.

 

Then as a bonus here are a few other tips for Imperial Fists:

• Your terminators can teleport with transponders for a small points cost. This is very useful. Especially when you teleport in range of rapid fire combi-plasma!
• Heavy Weapons Squads all gain Tank Hunter for Imperial Fists. Get some Lascannons.
• Better yet, Imperial Fists love Fortifications - get a bunker or two for those heavy weapons.
• One step further, you can add a Master of Signal Consul, giving those heavy weapons BS5 - enjoy your tank-murdering machines!

[Lord Cobalt]

Thanks for reply

1) My version of rules states squad composition as 2 chosen and 1 flag bearer. No chance of adding more people and no cost of more people. Where I can some revision and rules of this? Also, I am not buying Land Raider any soon, I forbid myself big purchases before I complete most of my infantry army from boxes.

 

2) I am solid on Tartaros squad with shields and cc weapons and multi-purpose Cata squad. I found that I have plasma blaster at hand too, so I need to chose 

 

3) I have captain in terminator armor Ultramarines character from Calth box, I wanted modify him to be my praetor. But he is in Cata terminator armor. Is for praetor officially allowed to have 2 cc weapons? My rules doesn't say that 100% clearly. And I am still tempted by combination of paragon and solarite

 

4) I know about transponders, I will use them.

 

5) I have lots of weapons from boxes, and I think there wouldn't be much heavy vehicles in my early games. So, instead of buying lascannons I am thinking about going with missile launchers for start. The same could be about fortifications. I read that we can use also fortifications from some 40K armory rules, but I don't have them.

[Gorgoff]

Thanks for reply

1) My version of rules states squad composition as 2 chosen and 1 flag bearer. No chance of adding more people and no cost of more people. Where I can some revision and rules of this? Also, I am not buying Land Raider any soon, I forbid myself big purchases before I complete most of my infantry army from boxes.

 

2) I am solid on Tartaros squad with shields and cc weapons and multi-purpose Cata squad. I found that I have plasma blaster at hand too, so I need to chose

 

3) I have captain in terminator armor Ultramarines character from Calth box, I wanted modify him to be my praetor. But he is in Cata terminator armor. Is for praetor officially allowed to have 2 cc weapons? My rules doesn't say that 100% clearly. And I am still tempted by combination of paragon and solarite

 

4) I know about transponders, I will use them.

 

5) I have lots of weapons from boxes, and I think there wouldn't be much heavy vehicles in my early games. So, instead of buying lascannons I am thinking about going with missile launchers for start. The same could be about fortifications. I read that we can use also fortifications from some 40K armory rules, but I don't have them.

1) The book is called Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army list and the Legion Command Squad entry has two pages. On the second page you find the option for adding more Chosen to the squad.

Here you are:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-5210997216791128661&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=Legiones+Astartes+Age+of+Darkness+

 

3) A Praetor in Terminator Armour can only exchange his Power Weapon for other ccw. Since he only has one PW he only can take a Paragon Blade OR a Solarite Gauntlet.

 

5)You'll find any available fortifications in the Age of Darkness rulebook. No need to have any 40k rulebooks.

Here you are:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-5210997216791128661&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=Rulebook

Edited November 27, 2018 by Gorgoff