GWs Guard "Army" Deals

[Captain Juan Juarez]

So, following a topic regarding the Cadian Defence Force particularly I'd like to start a discussion about the value and use of the three Guard boxed Forces and their values, role and usefulness in a collection compared to each other and purchasing items separately.

 

The following is my take base on my limited experience and personal desires.

 

Cadian Defence Force

 

This seems like a great starter force for a new Guard army and features a range of models to get to grips with at good value - great value if you use a third party retailer to get a further discount.

 

All in all there isn't much to dislike about this force except that, personally, at this time I am not interested in having a Chimera or a Russ which would, in theory, negate some of the value for me.

 

Militarum Tempestus Storm Scions

 

Everyone loves Stormtroopers/Kasrkin and that's how I think about these guys.

 

I don't see as great a value here as generally these units are comparatively priced with those of the Cadian box but the price is hiked by 75%.

 

Great as a force if you want to get that Heavy Infantry vibe like the Volpone or maybe get some funky painting in and christen them Vitirian Dragoons.

 

The big downside for me is that it includes Taurox - while I have a heartfelt want for Scions and eventually a Valkyrie or 32 i wouldn't ever want to include those ugly beasts.

 

Hammer of Cadia

 

Definite value for the amount of armour but still a very hefty price tag, even with further discount, but an exceptional start for an armour-heavy or armour-only force with a variety of kits to build.

 

The big issue here is the Hellhounds - aside from needing to be a TreadHead to really appreciate the force - as I really don't like them.

 

What are your thoughts guys? I know mine are not exactly flowing and essay-like but from the more experienced Guardsmen amongst you, particularly, what say you?

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Completely agree with you on the Cadian Defence Force. I would say this is the only one of the 3 I would buy. It's a perfect starter for any type of army.

 

As for the Scions box. The Scion models are amazing! One of the most enjoyable kits I have built. Valkyries are great too and although I'm not a fan of the commissar lord with minimal effort if can be converted to look better. But like you said, if you don't want the Taurox it's not worth it.

You save about £30 over buying it all separately but as you don't want the Taurox you would save £60 buying it separately without them and that's before the discounts of 3rd party retailers.

Furthermore, £175 is a lot for what is basically 2 HQ's and 2 troops when compared to the Defence Force that has much more to build on.

 

Finally, the Hammer of Cadia. Great for all tank armies, and considerably cheaper than them all separately (you pretty much get 2 tanks free!) however, as you said, unless you want 3 Hellhounds - and I'm not sure why as I would only use 1 in a game as I have better things to spend points on, it is not worth it as almost 1/4 of the box is useless.

Plus, I'm sure the three Leman Russ' are only the standard kit so you miss out on the executioner/demolisher builds which are very highly rated.

[Frater Cornelius]

My favourite tactic is to buy one, take the ones I need at a discount and sell the obsolete ones on ebay to save even more. This however means that you need some disposable income to begin with, so a small risk is involved.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

That's interesting about the Scions box set only being a £30 markdown over buying separate in the UK. On the Canadian site it's a savings of $100 or almost double (£1 = $2 Cdn roughly).

 

I'm just waiting for my tax return to buy that box myself. To build a pure MT force I have no choice but Taurox for ground transport and they're growing on me anyway.

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

That was an estimate to be fair, I think it's more like £40 saving but still, it's a big difference to Canada.

Found it for £140 here, which is more reasonable and makes selling on worthwhile:

http://www.triplehelixwargames.co.uk/Categories/Warhammer-40K/Imperial-Guard/MILITARUM-TEMPESTUS-STORM-SCIONS/2101

 

Although buying it separately on the same website minus Taurox = £119

[Captain Juan Juarez]

That was an estimate to be fair, I think it's more like £40 saving but still, it's a big difference to Canada.

Found it for £140 here, which is more reasonable and makes selling on worthwhile:

http://www.triplehelixwargames.co.uk/Categories/Warhammer-40K/Imperial-Guard/MILITARUM-TEMPESTUS-STORM-SCIONS/2101

 

Although buying it separately on the same website minus Taurox = £119

 

DarkSphere do it slightly cheaper in the UK, at approx. £135, but then that's at least another £4 or so for shipping  - I don't know how TH Wargaming compares to it with shipping. In fact, DarkSphere are comparable on pricing and in some case better than TH.

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Ooh, never heard of those before. Cheers for that, might look them up for my own stuff.

Just had a look at Dark Sphere. Because of it's weight, Dark Sphere's only shipping is courier for £14 or Royal Mail special delivery for £26. Could pick up in store though, not sure how much cheaper that is.

Just ordered an imperial knight and a few other stuff from triple helix, 1st class postage was about £4 and the weight would be similar.

[WarriorFish]

I've got an Element Games order winging it's way to me as my first test order for them, barring any last minute tits going up they've passed with flying colours. We're not here to gabble on about which online retailer is the best though! The value of the boxes is entirely subjective depending on your requirements. For me only the Scion one would be worthwhile as I already have plenty of Guard models, but again I'd not be particularly interested in the Taurox models.

Savings are always good though, even more so when you gain additional ones by shopping online. I don't need 3 Hellhounds, but only because I've already got 4... otherwise it's a good tank box same as the Defence Force one. Great for new recruits looking to build their force cheaper if you're willing to save up beforehand

I've modified your post to include links to the GW site to make checking up on them easier

[hendrik]

note that the first box set mentions 3 heavy weapon squads instead of 3 heavy weapon teams (so 9 big bases instead of only the 3 shown)! is there anything that could force them to include the missing 2 heavy weapon squads?

personally i find these boxes too expensive/many models included,since they give you less flexibility. i really liked the old cadian battleforce. it was priced correctly (although still expensive as hell), and it allowed for enough flexibility.

[march10k]

It sounds like most of the scientific objective reviewing of these three bundles is being based on a personal dislike for one model in the bundle...guys, your opinion that a taurox is ugly, or that a chimera doesn't fit your playstyle, is of zero value to a noob who is only wanting to know whether the bundles make economic sense, and whether they're a good starting point for building the relevant army. I think all three are an excellent starting point for a guard/stormtrooper army, although the stormtrooper kit offers, as mentioned, a less attractive discount over the a la carte prices of its components.

Immersturm's idea can have merit, but it's hard...people who buy their models on ebay expect a substantial discount from the list price of the model. The danger is that you end up giving them all of the savings that you made in choosing the bundle, at which point you might as well have just bought the models that you really wanted, separately.

note that the first box set mentions 3 heavy weapon squads instead of 3 heavy weapon teams (so 9 big bases instead of only the 3 shown)! is there anything that could force them to include the missing 2 heavy weapon squads?

personally i find these boxes too expensive/many models included,since they give you less flexibility. i really liked the old cadian battleforce. it was priced correctly (although still expensive as hell), and it allowed for enough flexibility.

It is three squads, provided that you magnetize...one heavy bolter squad, one autocannon squad, and one lascannon squad...of course, you can only field one at a time

[hornywingythingy]

I've got an Element Games order winging it's way to me as my first test order for them, barring any last minute tits going up they've passed with flying colours. We're not here to gabble on about which online retailer is the best though!

On the topic of element games, I have used them a few times, they are very good and communicate back to you a lot. I'm very impressed by them.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

It sounds like most of the scientific objective reviewing of these three bundles is being based on a personal dislike for one model in the bundle...guys, your opinion that a taurox is ugly, or that a chimera doesn't fit your playstyle, is of zero value to a noob who is only wanting to know whether the bundles make economic sense, and whether they're a good starting point for building the relevant army.  I think all three are an excellent starting point for a guard/stormtrooper army, although the stormtrooper kit offers, as mentioned, a less attractive discount over the a la carte prices of its components.  

 

 

No science here!

 

In fact a dislike of one model is a valid point because it dovetails with the criteria of "value, role and usefulness in a collection" - the assumption that 'value' is only a monetary concern is a mistaken one.

 

The Scions set loses value to me because of said ugly Taurox - also it sounds like Tau, c'mon! - and simple mathematics will tell anyone whether a set makes good economic sense; add up the components and if the value is more than the set it is already better value than those individual items.

[WarriorFish]

Agreed, in giving our opinions that should include all of them :P But as said, it depends on personal requirements as to which is best. If you're mad about tanks (and why wouldn't you be?) the Hammer box may be more appealing to you than others for example. If we're talking purely new recruits, or those who have recently started then the choice is obvious: the Defence Force is best as it gives you plenty of models that you will need for a strong and flexible core for your regiment :)

[ThatOneMarshal]

The hammer of cadia box is probalby something that I will be getting for my dkok. Though I'm curious how much you save with it.

[march10k]

 

It sounds like most of the scientific objective reviewing of these three bundles is being based on a personal dislike for one model in the bundle...guys, your opinion that a taurox is ugly, or that a chimera doesn't fit your playstyle, is of zero value to a noob who is only wanting to know whether the bundles make economic sense, and whether they're a good starting point for building the relevant army.  I think all three are an excellent starting point for a guard/stormtrooper army, although the stormtrooper kit offers, as mentioned, a less attractive discount over the a la carte prices of its components.  

 

 

No science here!

 

In fact a dislike of one model is a valid point because it dovetails with the criteria of "value, role and usefulness in a collection" - the assumption that 'value' is only a monetary concern is a mistaken one.

 

The Scions set loses value to me because of said ugly Taurox - also it sounds like Tau, c'mon! - and simple mathematics will tell anyone whether a set makes good economic sense; add up the components and if the value is more than the set it is already better value than those individual items.

 

The point is valid to you.  And to anyone who has similar aesthetic tastes.  But when advising new recruits about the value of a combo deal, "it suxxorz because I think model X is ugly" is unhelpful.

[Sviar]

 new recruits, or those who have recently started then the choice is obvious: the Defence Force is best 

+1

 

I have however choosen a different course. When I started out I bought one box painted it and then bought another one. For those that paint very slow(I am amongst the top three) to much plastic may have the opposite effect for some, rather then the boost other people get.  

[Captain Juan Juarez]

It sounds like most of the scientific objective reviewing of these three bundles is being based on a personal dislike for one model in the bundle...guys, your opinion that a taurox is ugly, or that a chimera doesn't fit your playstyle, is of zero value to a noob who is only wanting to know whether the bundles make economic sense, and whether they're a good starting point for building the relevant army. I think all three are an excellent starting point for a guard/stormtrooper army, although the stormtrooper kit offers, as mentioned, a less attractive discount over the a la carte prices of its components.

No science here!

In fact a dislike of one model is a valid point because it dovetails with the criteria of "value, role and usefulness in a collection" - the assumption that 'value' is only a monetary concern is a mistaken one.

The Scions set loses value to me because of said ugly Taurox - also it sounds like Tau, c'mon! - and simple mathematics will tell anyone whether a set makes good economic sense; add up the components and if the value is more than the set it is already better value than those individual items.

The point is valid to you. And to anyone who has similar aesthetic tastes. But when advising new recruits about the value of a combo deal, "it suxxorz because I think model X is ugly" is unhelpful.

Ah, I see this misunderstanding here because this was actually all about me really

[ThatOneMarshal]

Quick question for the hammer of cadia box it says that you get a hell hammer. Do you get the hell hammer only or the bane blade kit?

[WarriorFish]

The old Baneblade box builds both, and the new one builds everything so at the very least I'd expect you to be able to build the Baneblade with it. I'd send customer services a message to clarify just in case they're being strange with the box deal, I'm sure it'll be ok though :)

[ThatOneMarshal]

Was checking on line and it seems that the box only allows you to build a baneblade or a hellhammer. Anyone knew w which one is better as I don't have my book on me. :)

[march10k]

It sounds like most of the scientific objective reviewing of these three bundles is being based on a personal dislike for one model in the bundle...guys, your opinion that a taurox is ugly, or that a chimera doesn't fit your playstyle, is of zero value to a noob who is only wanting to know whether the bundles make economic sense, and whether they're a good starting point for building the relevant army. I think all three are an excellent starting point for a guard/stormtrooper army, although the stormtrooper kit offers, as mentioned, a less attractive discount over the a la carte prices of its components.

No science here!

In fact a dislike of one model is a valid point because it dovetails with the criteria of "value, role and usefulness in a collection" - the assumption that 'value' is only a monetary concern is a mistaken one.

The Scions set loses value to me because of said ugly Taurox - also it sounds like Tau, c'mon! - and simple mathematics will tell anyone whether a set makes good economic sense; add up the components and if the value is more than the set it is already better value than those individual items.

The point is valid to you. And to anyone who has similar aesthetic tastes. But when advising new recruits about the value of a combo deal, "it suxxorz because I think model X is ugly" is unhelpful.

Ah, I see this misunderstanding here because this was actually all about me really

NO NO NO! It's all about ME!

Was checking on line and it seems that the box only allows you to build a baneblade or a hellhammer. Anyone knew w which one is better as I don't have my book on me.

Love to help, but I left my escalation book at the LGS and won't see it again till Tuesday

[WarriorFish]

Better is a relative term as ever, but I think it's best to generalise them as follows: the Baneblade is a super sized Russ and the Hellhammer is a super sized Eradicator; one generalist the other anti-infantry.

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Just out of interest, as I have seen you mention it again in other threads, and sorry if someone has already asked but what is it you don't like about Hellhounds?

 

I can see why you would not want 3 - I wouldn't and I like them. I would just never use more than 1 variant per game so the others would just be there to have 1 of each type I can swap out occasionally; awesome if I have the money to spend on all that but right now, when I have just finished my first year of uni, it's not worth it.

 

Is it the looks? Or are they just bad from a rules perspective - not actually used mine yet so I don't know? Or maybe it's something else.

[hendrik]

the problem with the hellhound is it's cost effeciency, in comparison to other anti-infantry units,especially the wyvern, which is just so good it's almost hard to not take one/multiple over other anti infantry options. that being said, flaming troops away from a distance can be a lot of fun!

[WarriorFish]

The Hellhound benefits greatly from reliability I think. It's a strong flamer with a nice range mounted on a fast and more durable vehicle and when that template goes down you can almost guarantee the models it hit will be casualties. It works great as support for a mobile, advancing army so I find it is worth the cost.