Tactica Ravenwing in 7th Edition

[Prot]

As some of you know I have been playing a Drop Pod style list a lot in 7th edition because I was initially a little crushed by the changes to Jink in 7th.

 

While I do think it hurts my Ravenwing list quite a bit, I have been plotting to come back to the list and the strategy and modify it for success in 7th edition assuming Maelstrom missions.

 

Note: I don't pretend to be an expert on Ravenwing. Please look at this as a 'living document', something we can add to and grow as our collective experiences help promote strong play of Ravenwing in 7th edition. I foresee many add ons to this article in the form of allies, batreps, unit combo's, and all kinds of real world gaming feedback.

 

So I'd like to compile my experiences, and thoughts here, and see what you guys think as well, and maybe together we can bounce some ideas around and tune up Ravenwing for 7th.

 

Some initial thoughts and considerations that change fundamental list building for Ravenwing in 7th:

 

++++ Jink. As mentioned, some armies really benefited from this: Flyrant based lists, Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar (to varying degrees) but I feel this hurt Ravenwing more than any other army I play, or have played against in 7th. The reason I say this is because I never had an issue getting a good Jink save in 6th edition, and Skiller Rider plus the Shroud Speeder was more than enough. But now Jink means you can only snap fire. 

 

           ++++ The result of this: I am weighing the Banner of Devastation entirely against this factor (actually for more reasons than Jink which I hope to share later.)  Also my old Ravenwing lists were VERY heavy in Bikes/speeders and now I believe this will have to change the composition of the army.

 

++++ Objective Secured. Having fast, super scoring units is a tremendous benefit in 7th. I can't tell you how many games I won, when I was essentially out gunned, purely by playing objectively with fast units. 

 

         ++++ The result of this: This change is big, and it just reinforces taking Sammael. Also, as mentioned with Jink, Greenwing comes into bigger play. Greenwing Tacticals, in Pods grant you two, cheap Super Scoring units that don't have to rely on Jink to live, and can fill a void when half your bikes are forced to Jink. The void is in anti-horde, (Nids, Necron Warrior Spam, Orks, etc.) A basic Tactical Squad on an objective with a Pod armed with Deathwind Missile launchers are a good double threat I've been using in all my lists lately and I anticipate them filling the same role in my Ravenwing. Quite honestly this is a welcome change as in 6th I found no use for Tacticals at all personally.

 

++++ The 'Air Meta-Game': Flyers have a better Jink. Thus twin linked flyers are a bit better. But there are still armies that just own Flyers all together (Tau have incredible access to anti-air built in.) At the end of the  day, I'm finding Monstrous Creatures (Dakka-Flyrants and Nurgle D.P.s' own the skies).

 

        ++++ The result of this: I don't have a clear cut answer yet. I don't want to argue whether the Nephilim is a good or horrid flyer, but consider this: Does any flyer in the game last that long in 7th in a tournament setting? Considering the dual flyrants, popularity of Tau, and the expense of our Flyers, I'm seriously considering staying out of the air with Dark Angels in 7th completely. The only 'test' I'd like to try is a Dark Talon flying over a Banner of Devastation in my Ravenwing Command Squad. Of course you can go outside of the Dark Angel codex for a battle brothers ally solution but this discussion will try to stick with what we have in our codex.

 

        ++++ Part 2: A secondary consideration that combines my two previous points is: Green Wing, on a Bastion.  The one problem I found with a fast, small army in Maelstrom is you have to have something in your deployment zone now. BUT with bikes you don't want to be forced to babysit the unit. What I've been finding is a Bastion with a Quad keeps the 'stay home' squad relevant, while being able to pour out the Bastion at end game and "Objective Secured" score in your home zone (or prevent theft of an objective.) Consider the new deployment order in 7th to take full advantage of this.

 

 

Some Ravenwing unit (re) evaluations based on 7th edition:

 

I don't intend for this to cover the very basics since I'm hoping this post/article is more dealing with 7th edition changes, vs having your first games with Ravenwing. So sticking to changes, and new considerations.....

 

++++ Ravenwing Attack Squads: Super scoring means even more to me. The Attack Bike feels like a must, but I've struggled with this. As a Multi-Melta unit it poses a high threat to the opponent. In 7th it works very well using Jink and its 2 wounds to sit as either 1) a super scoring homefield objective holder, or 2) a late game turbo denial unit. The Typhoon used to be a strong piece for me, but again with changes to Jink, I've had trouble keeping it in the list for 7th. 

 

++++ Vengeance Speeder: An unfortunate change here. Relying on Jink on a meager AV of 10 means you can't shoot templates. This unit needs a minor FAQ tweak badly. Until then (if it ever happens) I can only see Deep Striking it canon ball style and hoping for the best. But since it costs more than 2 Whirlwinds, this is a hard sell right now. If you find great use out of this, I'd love to hear about it.

 

++++  Ravenwing Black Knights: My favorite unit in the codex. Will I ever play them practical enough to not die in 2 turns? The change to Jink once again hurts this unit, but it still hits hard, and is a good all around tool for this list. Throw in the Grenade Launcher to keep Monstrous Creatures and opposing bikes in check.

 

++++ Ravenwing Command Squad: Still a must for me. I always take a banner (more on Banners below). I always take the champ. That won't change in 7th as I still think it's points well spent. Grenade Launcher is also a strong choice in this squad as well as the Knights. I even usually take the Apothecary and I probably still will for the increased survivability. (In under 1500 pts this might be debatable points, but it only takes 1 FnP to make it feel like a good decision - as this unit is always under heavy heat.)

 

      ++++ Banners: It used to be the Devastation Banner, but now I'm considering Jink, as well as survivability which has me pondering Banner of Fortitude.  I don't mean to sound like Devastation is bad, because if you mix in Green Wing in a Pod, and manage to preserve your Jinks for the worst possible moment, it can still work.  Consider the short range of the Banner, as well as the resulting bunch up required to pull it off. Fortitude might be something worth looking at.

 

++++ Dark Shroud:  A gold unit for me in 6th.  In 7th we're talking about every skilled rider within 6" getting basically a 2+ Jink.  While this does help, it isn't as huge as it sounds because in 6th we could mimic this effect through skilled rider (you can't get better than 2+ jink), and as mentioned you're now snap firing as  result. I could imagine this being a very cool unit in an Aegis gunline list, but in Ravenwing I'm not so sure it's as automatic as it used to be.

 

++++ Nephilim: I used to use Nephilims as pill boxes with the Mega Bolter variant. In 7th edition this flyer keeps getting surpassed by new codexes' entry into the flyer game.  If someone has more to add here, I'd love to hear it. For me it's too overpriced for a mediocre unit in a very expensive army type. Not -unusable- per say, but perhaps too far from competitive.

 

++++ Dark Talon: This is interesting. As of 7th edition we know the Hurricane Bolters fit the description of 'Bolters'. Thus allowing the use of the Devastation Banner to effect this unit. A negative of the Dev. Banner is its range of 6", however, unlike the Nephilim, the Dark Talon can Hover Strike, unlike the Nephilim, it does not have to move. 

 

          ++++ Dark Talon part 2: Also interesting to me is the Dark Shroud, with this unit in Hover Mode not only seems to work with the above, but combining these two 'Dark' units makes for a 2+ jink. Considering this flyer is a bit cheaper than the Nephilim, and the fact it fills a key issue for Ravenwing being horde type armies, I think this is worth looking at. (It would replace my use of the Nephilim, while potentially being more effective at the same role!)

 

Ravenwing Support Units (IE. Units not directly related to Ravenwing/Flyers/Fast Attack)

 

 

++++ Greenwing: Mentioned above so I won't go into too much detail here but will emphasize super scoring is big in Maelstrom and I've found using these guys with a Pod (sometimes Deathwind Launchers) is a good, cheap way of getting some boots on the table. 

 

++++ Fortifications: I want to experiment more with this, but the rule in 7th allows you to place them after objectives during deployment. I have really benefited from having the  Bastion for instance, placed deep in my zone allowing Bikes to zoom off, and this Bastion with a unit inside and Quad gun hold their own, and allow a late game scoring attempt in your zone without retreating your bikes. Aegis does this as well, but does allow 'intruder' assaults and requires heavier support as a result.  Fire Storm Redoubts are also worth looking at if you don't want to man something but still want anti-flyer in your list.

 

++++ Heavy Selections: I don't recommend Landraiders in this list. It's just too expensive. So far my favorite two choices have been: Lascannon Devs on a fortification, or the simple Whirlwind(s) hiding behind a Bastion, staying out of LoS. I'd like to fill this section up with more possibilities. 

 

++++ Terminators. If you take part of this article and apply it to a Az-bomb style list, termies are almost auto include (super scoring). But in a Sammael lead list it becomes an issue of personal taste and aesthetics. I have used Terminators to success in this list, but the down side is they will be the slowest thing in your army, and if you're not conservative with options, they can diminish your model count severely. Model count is always an issue with Ravenwing, so I prefer Greenwing support. However, the moderately priced Deathwing Knights have certainly done well for me in Ravenwing given the right circumstances. 

 

++++ Librarian on Bike:

 

++++ Power Field Generator:

 

++++ Place Holder:

 

Ravenwing Tactica 1: Facing Specific Opponents

 

++++ Place Holder:

 

 

 

I plan to flesh this out and hope it provides some answers to at least basic questions, if not more. I remember trying to get into Ravenwing in 6th edition and probably asking a lot of 6th edition questions that people just didn't want to answer anymore (although many people were very  helpful in helping me.) 

 

Again I hope this living document gets fleshed out in time and enhances your experiences with Ravenwing. The more feedback you can add here only helps all the more. The more , the merrier. 

[Polythemus]

Very Thorough. I think that with the bike army its tough to know when to go for the assault and when to let the opponent come to you. I would argue the range advantage provided by the Dev. Banner is another consideration and allows you to maintain distance without sacrificing firepower. I have only recently started to dabble in the ravenwing army and the choice between close the distance for assault and maintain standoff is not always and easy one.

 

I will agree with your points on termies and greenwing and their inclusion into the ravenwing. Greenwing just fill out the body count a little better. But if you take dev banner and fewer black nights the termies can help with assault and strengthening a flank.

[RayJ]

I've been running the Azrael + Ezekiel + Black Knights unit in a combined arms list (Tacticals/Deathwing/Ravenwing) and on the Ravenwing side of things, I'm not finding Jink to be too bad, but I'm sure that has a lot to do with the way the list is built. I try very hard to put two hard-to-counter units in your face and that leaves my small RW Attack Squad bikes less likely to be taking shots.

The extra durability from Azrael + Ezekiel on the bike unit means not a huge amount of need for jink, but it's also not as worrisome when I do, because combat is a great place for the unit to sit.

 

I've been spending a huge amount of points on the beefed up Land Raider Crusader too, and it has been awesome, but without Azrael it's ahrd to justify it. I've got it for being Objective Secured, hard to suppress (Dozer, Extra Armor, PFG, Venerable), and great delivery for my 6-man DWT squad. Also awesome for grabbing up a wounded Tactical Squad mid to late game.

 

I still need to pick up a Darkshroud and definitely need to toy around with the fliers some more. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

[Effreem]

The Darkshroud doesnt give anyone but Black Knights and RW Command Squad a 2+ jink. DarkShroud gives stealth to everyone else and shrouded to itself only.

[Louis]

I've had a couple of 7th ed games using Ravening and the first thing that jumped out at me was that Jink, Skilled Rider and the Dark Shroud gives a 2+ cover save. The downside, as has been said, is that you can only Snapfire next round. But there is no loss of melee ability for jinking and combined with the scout moves and overall biker speed the Ravenwing can easily assault in turn 2.  In my gaming group I'm still seeing a lot of gun lines, and with the changes to the vehicle damage tables I'm seeing tanks making a big come-back. So although the Ravenwing isn't the best assault army what it can do is get across the table quickly, really minimise losses on the way there and then are good enough to beat a gunline army in a straight up melee.

 

If I come across a close combat orientated army I pack the banner of devastation as plan B and try and fight the battle at 24" range and use massed bolter fire. In this case the new Jink rules are harder to cope with but I'm packing a lot of fire-power for hordes and still have units like Black Knights to use in the fights I can win. I also change the roles for my speeders here, instead of using them as fast objective grabbers (ObjSec speeders are awesome!) they move forward and use multi-meltas to try and de-mech my opponent for the bolters to be of use.

 

I'm seeing Ravenwing as very flexible with lots of great tools for 7th edition 

[SnakeChisler]

With 7th use the terrain as best as you can while you may not get Jinx save you still get cover so a lot more tactical play needed when moving

 

My Multi melta power has been stretched a lot with the rule change and that's saying something given I pack 12 in my all guns blazing Ravenwing list  

Psykers

The balance of psychic powers with running 1 librarian makes it hard to pop off level 2 powers with consistency also whitchfire obeys the jinx rule so my PFG becomes more relevant and I've been straying away from divination and moving to Pyromancy as now you can deliver a psychic shooting attack in a different phase. Pyromancy gives me ignores cover with some soul blaze options I occasionally try and get invisibility (from telepathy) but its really hit and miss. 

 

Top psychic powers in 7th

1/ Misfortune (6's are rending) coupled with high volume bolter fire but the clutch power of re-rolls isn't really needed except for assault and its warp charge 2.

2/ Molten beam S8 Ap1 Beam Melta 12" on the odd occasion this has come up its really been devastating against elite units (remember I'm on a bike ;)

3/ Invisibility - is this as OP as it sounds well yes it is but the Bolter banner is a godsend when facing something like this, the worst / best part of invisibility depending on if your dishing it out or on the receiving end is the 6's in combat its just brutal.

 

Against Psyker heavy armies you need to go for Buffs rather than shooting as you'll struggle to get offensive spells off