Chaos Lords, how do you get them working?

[Teetengee]

@zeller

Why not run the lord with MoT rather than sigil (unless it needs flexibility for unit joining)? It is a cheaper way to get a 4++ on TDA. (Or you can add both and get a 3++).

[Prot]

A good, fun thread.

 

I rarely run lords anymore. In the past they were biker lords, but my last games have been using Kranon (Crimson Slaughter). He's really fun, and has potential but I'm in the bad habit of saying to my opponents: "You know if Special K (that's what I call Kranon) gets one more kill, his sword will be AP2".

 

It's usually at that moment my opponent's entire army focuses poor little Special k until he's dirt napping.

 

But he is fun. I personally think Khârn is better but that's a different thread. For the longest time all I took was a Warpsmith which I happen to like, but less so in 7th with Maelstrom. So this thread is good to see how others are running their lords.

 

(I guess I could throw Kranon on a bike with MoN, but I'm a sucker for running him with possessed.)

[Deadman Wade]

Glad this topic came up as I've been having some difficulty with which sort of lord to go for-the fully decked out lord or the cheap one.

 

For the most part recently I've been going for the fully decked out lord-bike/juggernaut, sigil and a daemon weapon (black mace or axe of blind fury since I don't use either supplement). Problem is for me he can never beat the +2 ++3 IWND space marine chapter master and I end up spending all those pts on a lord who just dies.

 

The way I see it the other option is keep him cheap. Go on foot with a marine squad, take maybe the sigil, power weapon and a combi weapon or brand and just support the squad, or I could go for my biker lord just with something more reliable than a daemon weapon.

 

My view of course is skewed since I basically only play against space marines these days..I'm sure other people have success with the axe/jugger lord.

Chaos lords should not beat chapter master. Ever. CM with only artificer armor and bike (no weapon/shield/relics) is 10 points more expensive than fully equipped Khorne lord, and Chapter Master with Shield Eternal and thunder hammer is 250 points, which is almost equal to fully equipped Khorne Daemon Prince, Typhus or Abaddon.

Chaos lord isn't a counter to any opponent with 4 wounds, 2+/3++, T5, FNP and IWND, even though he easily beats tough opponents who cost much more points (Calgar, Grimnar, Azrael, Belial e.t.c.).

[incinerator950]

Uh, no.

[Dysorange]

In my opinion Chaos Lords are meant to do their own job, very separated from the role a Chapter Master can have.

 

The good point about a Lord is that you can keep hum relatively cheap compared to other hard hitting HQ.

 

I might be wrong there, but since some times, I am considering running a lsit with several Combined Arm detachement to be able to put more than two Chaos Lords on the table, thus being able to have some sort of response unit ready for a lot of situation. One with Lightning claws, one wit Powerfist, on with Disk of Tzeentch, one on Juggernaut etc. And using the fast slots to bodyguard the Lords and the Heavy slots to fit more Maulerfiends. 

 

This might be a weak list, but I think the idea of a bunch of Chaos Champion rushing to fight, each of them able to put up a big fight would please the Gods a lot, especially big K.

 

Do you think running a sort of Lord Deathstar would be an option? 5 Spawn, 6 Lords, tons of cultists!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Asvaldir]

Chaos lords should not beat chapter master. Ever. CM with only artificer armor and bike (no weapon/shield/relics) is 10 points more expensive than fully equipped Khorne lord, and Chapter Master with Shield Eternal and thunder hammer is 250 points, which is almost equal to fully equipped Khorne Daemon Prince, Typhus or Abaddon.

Chaos lord isn't a counter to any opponent with 4 wounds, 2+/3++, T5, FNP and IWND, even though he easily beats tough opponents who cost much more points (Calgar, Grimnar, Azrael, Belial e.t.c.).

But using the crimson slaughter supplement we can get almost the same stats as the chapter master. You take the deamonheart, sigil, MoT and your choice of weapon and all you're missing is the extra wound, which you have a very small chance to gain if you take a gift of mutation.

 

However since I don't use the Crimson slaughter supplement I've given up trying to beat the chapter master since I don't think it can be done without lots of luck using just our base codex.

 

I don't see a giant chaos Lord deathstar working out so well since it's a ton of pts in one unit but it would be fun to try.

[Deadman Wade]

Take Mark of Nurgle, palanquin, fist and claw, sigil of corruption, blight grenades and you'll have 5 wounds character with 5 attacks. Very slow, but he'll beat or at least lock Chapter Master in a challenge for the rest of the game.

Again, Iron hands biker CM is 250 points, Raukaan CM is 240, which is a lot. Generic close combat character should not beat other generic close combat characters that costs 50+ points more, even though CS Lord with Daemonheart, fist, claw, bike, sigil and mark of Tzeentch is only 195 points and has a nice chance of beating CM.

Fluff wise, I really think that 10000 years old veterans should easily kill loyalists captains and chapter master in single combat, but with current tabletop point prices, more expensive model should win.

[khornebitmycob]

Chaos lord MoT, sigil, terminator armour, the black mace combi-whatever. amazingly versatile with the options available. customised for each battle but i found the 2+/3++ saves my lord every time. a bit expensive but meh play for fun not to win

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'd love to use a Lord with terminator armor because I love the image of a lord with his terminator guard but I just can't justify the cost. You take him on foot and he's too slow, or you have to drop the pts on a land raider to give him the speed he needs. Especially for maelstrom missions I really don't like investing so many pts into one unit.

[Cpt_Reaper]

My usual lord is Sulln Avitus, the Angel of Light.

- jump pack
- sigil
- Gift of Mutation
- Mark of Khorne
- Axe of Blind Fury
with either Raptors or Talons as a body guard.

[Shuggnuggath]

Take Mark of Nurgle, palanquin, fist and claw, sigil of corruption, blight grenades and you'll have 5 wounds character with 5 attacks. Very slow, but he'll beat or at least lock Chapter Master in a challenge for the rest of the game.

Again, Iron hands biker CM is 250 points, Raukaan CM is 240, which is a lot. Generic close combat character should not beat other generic close combat characters that costs 50+ points more, even though CS Lord with Daemonheart, fist, claw, bike, sigil and mark of Tzeentch is only 195 points and has a nice chance of beating CM.

Fluff wise, I really think that 10000 years old veterans should easily kill loyalists captains and chapter master in single combat, but with current tabletop point prices, more expensive model should win.

 

 

 

So by your logic, Bikezander should never beat a tooled up deamon prince?

[Deadman Wade]

Khorne DP with axe vs IH CM is quite even fight, no? And psyker DP with biomancy or telepathy usually beats CM 1 on 1.

So no, without very lucky/unlucky dice rolls CM should lose to DP that costs 50+ points more.

[khurdur]

just play a juggerlord with an axe and 4++. He usually kills a decked out 230-40p chapter master every game. His attacks and dice are very consistent with hatred, over time he'll fail 4 saves.

And he's about 50p cheaper.

When I play him, my enemies tend to try to just bury him in space marines, which well ends kinda badly for them, as he has usually killed 10-15 models and rolled 3 gifts from challenges.

[Shuggnuggath]

Khorne DP with axe vs IH CM is quite even fight, no? And psyker DP with biomancy or telepathy usually beats CM 1 on 1.

So no, without very lucky/unlucky dice rolls CM should lose to DP that costs 50+ points more.

 

 

I don't think GWs points system is as finely tuned as that. 

 

What I find annoying is that Chaos Lords have no option but to challenge Bikezander, he fast so its often hard to avoid contact with him. Its lead to only 1 really feasible tactic for chaos as a whole. Multiple fast moving threats e.g. spawn + bikes + maulers because we cannot compete in a shooting war.

[Deadman Wade]

Chapter master has very poor choices of retinue. Chaos bikers shouldn't have any problems with loyalist bikers, if you give them something like powerfist and/or marks and icons. Once CM's retinue is dead, CL and bikers will swarm him, and with average dice rolls Chaos lord can tank CM damage for about 2-3 combat rounds. Also, CM isn't fearless and much worse at killing infantry/bikes than Lords, who can massacre CM squad and make him fail leadership test.

[Prot]

just play a juggerlord with an axe and 4++. He usually kills a decked out 230-40p chapter master every game. His attacks and dice are very consistent with hatred, over time he'll fail 4 saves.

And he's about 50p cheaper.

When I play him, my enemies tend to try to just bury him in space marines, which well ends kinda badly for them, as he has usually killed 10-15 models and rolled 3 gifts from challenges.

A Juggerlord is actually something I've never tried. What model did you use?

What do you field him in?

[Lord Asvaldir]

just play a juggerlord with an axe and 4++. He usually kills a decked out 230-40p chapter master every game. His attacks and dice are very consistent with hatred, over time he'll fail 4 saves.

And he's about 50p cheaper.

When I play him, my enemies tend to try to just bury him in space marines, which well ends kinda badly for them, as he has usually killed 10-15 models and rolled 3 gifts from challenges.

Even with the axe and on a juggernaut I feel like a lord can't beat a chapter master that easily. I've tried and he lost. IWND is a big advantage for the master and given you can't kill him that quickly I find he almost always gets wounds back, while you can't and only have a ++4 save against his power fist attacks.

[Excessus]

So a CS lord on a jugger with 2+ and iwnd? Sure, he only gets the relentless blade but he's more durable.

[khurdur]

I play him in a unit of 5 chaos spawn. You''ll usually get a turn two charge. They have a huge charge distance 12+2d6 and fleet for re-rolls.

As for a model, I used a juggernaut from a bloodcrusher pack (off ebay) and a rider from the OOP juggernaut lord for 40k, who is of great size, and together they make quite an imposing model.

 The best idea is to get a jugger from a skullcrusher or bloodcrusher box, (or ebay) and stick a rider you like on top.

 

I dunno, I have never lost him to a chapter master in a fair fight, and have killed four or five in my last battles. They have no re-rolls-they'll score 2 maybe 3 wounds per turn. You'll live 2 or 3 combat rounds. thats a lot of S6 Ap2 attacks he'll be taking in the face every turn. I prefer the axe of blind fury due to the offensive potential. One IWND roll per turn really doest seem to cut the ice for me. Oh and always buy a gift of mutation. Sometimes you will get something great. Last game I got +1 toughness. Another I got +1 wound. Sometime it will tip the balance.

i haven't faced an iron hands guy, though, but I'm confident that 3 rounds of combat ought to kill him.

[hopkins]

my poor nurgle terminator fist/claw lord got a dose of instant death from a deathwing knight unit last night

then said unit made 17 consecutive 3++ saves from a black mace prince in the following 2 turns of combat

[Lord Asvaldir]

So a CS lord on a jugger with 2+ and iwnd? Sure, he only gets the relentless blade but he's more durable.

With a ++4 or ++3 yes that build is a match for the chapter master, you just have to be ready for them to be sitting in combat most of the game.

 

Man 17 saves that just sucks.

[Fortis]

No one appears to have mentioned using the Black Mace. That thing seems too dangerous not to be using. What are people's thoughts on it?

 

Also, what about the other toys also not mentioned: Dimensional Key, Scroll of Magnus, Burning Brand...?

[Leif Bearclaw]

No one appears to have mentioned using the Black Mace. That thing seems too dangerous not to be using. What are people's thoughts on it?

It's not worth it on a Lord tbh. AP4 isn't good enough to worth the points.

 

The mace is only worth it on the Prince, which has its own inbuilt AP2 to offset the disadvantage.

[Teetengee]

I'm not sure the mace is bad on a lord, it is just so much better on a prince there doesn't seem a reason to run it on the lord.

[Tenebris]

Power Armour, Aura of Dark Glory, Burning Brand, Power Sword, Gift of Mutation. Cheap, cheerful and almost always makes his points back. No Bike, no Mount,... just park him with some cheap Chosen in a Rhino and send him toward tasty things like Tactical Squads, IG platoons, in short troops.