Tenebris Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Now let's make an introduction in this topic. Here we are to discuss on the mechanics of a Chaos Space Marines Warband. What is a Warband, how it functions, which are some common structures in a Chaos Warband, which are the needs of one such "organization" and how the politics of power play in such a structure... The questions are many but before we begin a debate I should provide the answer, there are no common concepts or "standard templates" of a Chaos Space Marine Warband. Said that we can dissect the CSM Warband, we can research the lore and the books for some answers and we can try to piece out a picture of a CSM Warband. Let's begin with the first and foremost thing, the "Traitor Legions" are no more, M41 is the era of Warbands, of self sustaining and independent armies which follow a single lord of Chaos or a council of luminaries. A Warband can still have the majority of its marines made from the genetic template of a single traitor legion or a renegade chapter, but a mix of various bloodlines, gene experiments and hybrids is considered the norm. There are effectively very few "pure strain" traitor astartes in the circulation and the majority of the chaos space marines are now either bastards or renegades incorporated in established Chaos Warbands. Now lets move onto the core of the topic. What makes a Chaos Space Marine Warband function? Being mostly independent armies or part of a very loose coalition of forces it is clear that logistics are a hard thing for any CSM Warband. An astartes force on the move is a massive leviathan which devours megatonnes of material, supplies, fuel, organic components and food. To keep such a force operational (be it 10 marines or 10.000) it is a great expenditure of resources, resources which are scarce in the Eye of Terror, or hard to acquire on raids due to the defences in the imperial or xeno space. A Warband usually begins not due to devotion to a single leader or to a Chaos God but it begins as a way of survival. The marines will follow any lord who is capable to keep them supplied, fed, operational and relatively safe. So this is the core argument of a Chaos Warband, survival trough mutual alliance, support and strength of arms which comes from any concentration of astartes. What makes a Chaos Space Marine Warband function? Well we can imagine it quite easily. A functional space ship, a mass of mortal servants for menial and specialized tasks, a steady supply of food and materiel, the supplies to keep the army on the move and enough contingent plans to keep the astartes from tearing each other apart (namely a constant stream of small battles and raids). How is this achieved I would ask of you to research the fluff and the books and post every snippet of information about this core logistics of a Chaos Warband. Which are the components of a Chaos Space Marine Warband? Well this question has an infinite number of answers but we can delineate a core. First and foremost a Chaos Space Marine warband needs a lot of slaves, which in the end can be even more of an imperative than the Chaos Space Marines themselves. The slaves are used to run a ship, to man the fortress, to support the marines with menial or specialized tasks as well as act as a source of food or sacrifice in a pinch when the need is dire. But you would say we are speaking of the CSM and not the mortal flock, well I ask of you, how detrimental can be to loose the very oil which greases the machine, what kind of an impact can be loosing a gun deck crew in a battle for a Chaos Lord... compared to a single marine... a dire prospect indeed, especially if silences one of your big guns. The next building block of a CSM Warband are the specialized slaves. Technicians, chirumeks, Navigators (if need be), officers, specialized workers. Remember the Avenging Sons renegades willingly entered a tough battle to simply acquire three Mechanicus Techpriests... well this is the class of slaves I am speaking of. Without them even the mightiest Chaos Warband would quickly decline and be stranded in the void or on ground. Following the mortal crew or slaves are finally the Chaos Space Marines themselves. We all know that they come in countless stripes, as cults, as traitor legionnaires, as renegades, as brainwashed loyalists, as Secondborn possessed... Matters not their origins but their capability to fight, as the fighting core of the Warband. But with the CSM comes a specific set of problems, each and everyone hard to solve. I recall that a single tactical squad uses around a third of a Thunderhawk capacity of supplies in a single battle. Ammo clips, repair parts, servo motors, replacement teeth for the chainswords, barrels and parts for the bolters, grenades... Each Chaos Space Marine is an army on his own but he also uses the supplies of a minor army in battle. And we all know how this things are hard to come by for a Chaos Warband. Not only that but what happens if the marine is wounded in action, if his power armour is compromised, ... well this shows us how imperative is the "specialized slaves" caste. A Chaos Lord then has to ask himself a few questions. How do I replace the marines I have lost in battle, how many can I patch with bionics or grafted organics, how many replacement organs or vat grown materiel do I have to keep my men in battle and how many of them can I thus send into battle without severely weakening my warband. Here we are entering in the core concept of the Chaos Warband and its mechanics. I would ask of you to write down as many sources of lore which answer the questions above. How the Chaos Warbands replenish their geneseed stock (geneseed hunters are an example of the Iron Warriors), how do they acquire bionics and biologic material, how the Chaos Space Marines are healed post battle, how are the genessed and the items on their person recovered by the Warband? Chirumeks were mentioned in the Word Bearers books, I presume some even more esoteric thing too can be found in the lore. So please research and write down for all of us. Last is the leadership of a Chaos Warband. Indeed at its apex there is a powerful Champion of Chaos or a Daemon of some sort but no king, not even a tyrant can run an army alone. Each lord needs a council to help him in his decisions (even if it comes with backstabbing) but he also needs a way to intermediate between the pantheon of Chaos and his warband. We have countless examples in lore how the top of the hierarchy in a warband in structured so lets try to find as many notions of this as possible in lore. Who are the cardinal figures in a Chaos Space Marines Warband? The answer here is mostly the Chaos Lord or the Daemon Prince (rare) but can also be a council, a daemonic entity or something even more sinister. But the Chaos Warbands usually find themselves organized along clear lines. We have the slaves, followed up by the specialist, then we move onto the mortal warriors, Chaos Space Marines led by Aspiring Champions, Chosen, Elites and finally the "specialist astartes". No Chaos Lord can hope to persecute a campaign without some council from his veterans, form the Sorcerers, Dark Apostles, Warpsmisths or his Apothecaries. War, even a small scale raid, is a demanding thing, especially for a Chaos Warband which more often than not teeters on the brink of survival. Every long standing Chaos Lord learned to surround himself with a court of his brothers or advisors, while each plots and blackmails in the internecine politics, they are still forced to cooperate in order to survive a hostile galaxy. Here it would be great if we could expand the concepts of this politics with lore sources in order to provide a modicum of structure and background to this cardinal figures. All in all, lets work together and find out as many sources of lore which would illuminate us with the inner workings of a Chaos Space Marine Warband. Research the fluff, present your opinions and debate on the results. If we collate our insight and resources in this topic we will find ourselves with some core concepts to keep in mind for our armies as well as some insights in the background of the faction we play. To streamline the research lets write down some questions: - How the CSM Warband came into existence? - How is the CSM Warband structured? - How does a CSM Warband function? - Known key figures in the CSM Warband? - Relationships in the CSM Warband? - Describe the key assets of the CSM Warband? - How are the Chaos Space Marines supported in battle and post battle? - Which are the known sources of geneseed, war material and supplies? - Which are the naval assets of the CSM Warband? - Known battlefield tactics of the CSM Warband and their impact on the Warband structure? - Relationship between the Chaos entities and the Warband, the intermediation between the two? - Key battles of the Warband and their impact on the Warband? - Logistics of the Warband? - Known specialists, cults and factions in the Warband? - The use and the abuse of the "mortal" assets? - Relationships with the other CSM Warbands? - Strongholds of the CSM Warband? - Specialized slave classes? - Size of the Warband? - Armoury, known special or daemonic weapons, vehicles? Now these are but a few questions which if answered could allow us to piece together some answers on the CSM Warband mechanics and politics. Please when you provide the answer, write down also the source of the material, if fanmade or speculation write close IMO. So we will differentiate between official and fanmade source. Happy hunting, happy reading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Will have to sit down and have a good think on this. Then go through and censor it quite heavily ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Though I do not have the full amount of time to proceed with your full and eloquent request, I feel the Night Lords Trilogy by ADB shows much of the questions asked being answered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Indeed, it is a monumental task, we have the Night Lord novels, the Anthologies, the Word Bearers and Iron Warriors books, short stories and a great number of DIY warbands to shift trough. There is a lot of lore about the Warbands, some typified as "traitor legion" forces, some renegades, some more as the factions which appear either as side notes or in the short stories (Emyprion's Blight, renegade Avenging Sons). There is a lot of fluff to work with and we have shown as a community that we are capable to tackle with such projects. I call all the resident Chaos Lords to provide their insights, especially if you know the in and outs of your favourite books about Chaos Space Marines. My wish is to collate everything in a clear format which could be used as a reference for all of our DIY Warbands or as a source of lore for our future projects. The mechanics of the Space Marines are linear and mostly congruous across the lore, less so, as it is proper, for the Chaos Space Marines. I do not ask for structure or clear lines in this topic but piece by piece we will be able to amass some considerable material which could become a resource. In short provide as many facts as possible, numbers being the best facts. Names are also very important (Chirumeks, Blood Witches, The Annointed...) as are their functions, since allow us to better grasp the complexity of a Chaos Warband and its mechanics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Will also sit for a bit, though I'd put the ship itself (or ships themselves) as the very first thing, in front of slaves or technicians or whatever. How the force gets from battle to battle is the very first thing. The ship itself needs crew (typically moral slaves), technicians (most likely contracted from the dark mechanicus), and a navigator (though a suitably powerful and skilled chaos sorcerer can serve this function).The warband will also need a means of delivering troops from the ship to the battlefield - drop pods, dread claws, thunderhawk landers, etc.In terms of the needs of individual astartes, they may need personal attendants - generally human slave artificers and medics - or may not, depending on how blessed/tainted by the powers of the warp they are. Sufficiently favored chaos marines will regenerate from damage that would otherwise require cybernetic prosthesis, and their armor and wargear will also regrow and repair damage after battle like a living thing - reference the Black Legion supplement description of 'oathbroken' - chaos marines who are notable for not exhibiting such abilities due to losing the favor of the gods.As for replacement of lost soldiers, that may vary. Some chaos warbands may not have needed to do so yet (even some heresy forces have experienced as little as a century of subjective time since the scouring, ref: ADB's Night Lords books), others that have been unable to do so might combine with other warbands instead (particularly the case when both warbands are the remnants of companies from the same traitor legion or renegade chapter). Others are still pure enough to attempt to use their own geneseed, though this becomes less and less possible the more subjective time of warp exposure they have experienced, and is dependent on acquiring the tools and facilities to create new marines, which likely involves contracting with the dark mechanicus. Most others need to steal loyalist geneseed or corrupt and recruit fully fledged loyalist marines. In Legion warbands, such recruits of 'lesser bloodline' are likely to be treated as inferior or lower class soldiers, with the best equipment and best missions (whether the warband measures such in terms of safety or glory) reserved for "true" legionnaires.Similar case when it comes to maintaining or acquiring new equipment. Yes, mutation and posession can maintain existing war engines with considerably less effort and resources expended than loyalists would have to, but new tanks, armor, and weapons need to be purchased or contracted from the dark mechanicus or stolen from loyalists. All this contracting from the Dark Mech is also expensive - loyalist marines can count on being outfitted by the will of the Imperium, but traitor forces must buy services with looted slaves, and stolen technology and resources, forcing most warbands into lives of piracy between major campaigns in order to sustain themselves.It's not exactly fair to say that the legions are no more in the 41st millenium. While individual companies generally break off into warbands to fend for themselves due to struggles for resources or conflicts of leadership, most still consider themselves members of their parent legion, and even in the most scattered of legions those disperate parts can still be brought together by legion business. Reference the short story between books one and two in ADB's Night Lords omnibus. For the rest of the series, we see an isolated, independent warband from a shattered and scattered legion, but in that story all the various warlords have put aside their differences to bring the entire legion together.Again, and just to emphasize, ADB's Night Lords books are the go to example for Legion warbands - how they survive, how they operate, how they interact with each other, and they paint a picture of a scattered legion existing as independent war bands, not a destroyed legion which no longer exists at all.And that's the Night Lords, arguably the most shattered of legions. The World Eaters are similarly scattered, and yet are known to all answer as a legion when their daemon primarch calls them to battle. What this means for mercenary world eaters forces that have attached themselves to other warbands, or to world eaters that have sworn to the black legion, is unclear, but I wouldn't want to be the warlord to tell a berzerker cult that they're not allowed to go when Angron calls them to battle. And if even the shattered legions can pull themselves together when there's legion business to be done, it can only be all the more so in the case of Legions like the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, or Death Guard which never truly dissolved.Such legions still operate in discrete, largely self contained segments, be they called companies or chapters or warbands or what have you, which directly follow their own captains or warlords. Such forces are still operate generally independently when the legion is not mustered for war, mostly likely spending their time pirating when they haven't been issued specific missions by their legion masters (lesser Black Legion warbands, for instance, probably spend less "downtime" pirating and more time supporting non-Black Legion warbands and legions in their campaigns, in return for promises of support in Abaddon's next Black Crusade). What is different is the amount of support. A warband in a structured legion (and I include the Red Corsairs in this) will occasionally be tasked with assignments from their legion masters, but can also rely on some amount of material support, and enjoy a stronger bargaining posture when negotiating aid from the dark mechanicus or dealing with other warbands. A more powerful piratical warband is less likely to prey upon a smaller warband it comes across if that warband is flying Black Legion colors.What we're basically looking at is a feudal system, where a warband is a city. They have their own governor, grow their own food, train their own soldiers, defend their own lands. Some city states are independent and fend for themselves, others are part of kingdoms or empires, and must pay taxes to, obey laws of, and support the wars of the King or Emperor, but in turn can rely on aid from the capitol if attacked, and likely enjoy superior trading arrangements with their neighbors.Of course, while 'legions' and 'legion warbands' may still exist after a fashion, that's not necessarily the same as saying they're 'completely pure'. In addition to the recruiting issues I previously mentioned, such warbands may also find themselves acquiring or accepting the aid of non-legion forces. Perhaps a mercenary retiment of berzerkers, the straggling survivors of a world eaters warband that split up or was ground away in battle. Or perhaps the warlord accepts the services of an exiled thousand sons sorcerer and his rubric bodyguard. Any warband might hire mercenary cults or absorb the remnants of a fallen warband while still considering themselves part of their original Legion.So again, the legions may not exist in the same form they did at the end of the heresy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't exist at all. And that's not even to count legion warbands which aren't heresy vets at all, but rather post heresy renegade chapters which have either been forcibly absorbed or voluntarily sworn themselves to a Legion's banner. In fact, given the dangers of the eye, particularly predation by more powerful warbands, I'd imagine that Warbands associated in some way with some legion outnumber independent warbands by a good deal, with new independent warbands looking to attach themselves to existing legions, and existing legions eager to absorb them. There's just too much motivation supporting such an arrangement - existing legions need new recruits, independent warbands need support and a name that will cause potential predators to think twice - for that not to be the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Word Bearers (per Word Bearer's Omnibus): Dark Council (centralized - made up of senior Dark Apostles - picks Dark Apostles) War Host (Warband - formerly Company): Dark Apostle - e.g. Jarulek / Marduk / Nahren Coryphaus (War Leader) - e.g. Kol Badar || First Apostle (Apprentice) - e.g. Marduk / later Enusat Coterie (Chaos Astartes Squads):Chaos Astartes Champions - e.g. Burias / Sabtec Other Chaos Astartes Crew Cultists Slaves No formal structure: Daemon Princes Greater Daemons Lesser Daemions Night Lords (per Night Lords Ombinus): Warband (formerly Company): Warband Leader / Captain (as there was no longer a centralized structure with First Captain) - e.g. Malcharion / Vandred-Exalted / later Talos Atramentar (elite bodyguard to the Captain / formerly first Company) - e.g. Malek (all dead now) Claws (Chaos Astartes Squads):Chaos Astartes Champions / Sgts. - e.g. Lucoryphus Other Chaos Astartes CrewNavigator - e.g. Octavia Specialist Crew - e.g. Septimus Others Slaves Death Guard (per Distant Echos): Warband: Warband Leader - e.g. Phorgal (referred to as Moritat which would formerly be a Legion Centurion) Chaplain - e.g. Morgax (at least one instance - Distant Echos) Chaos Astartes Squad:Chaos Astartes Sergeant - e.g. Grull Other Chaos Astartes Crew Slaves Edit - Corrections and updates. Its funny, originally I wrote Kol Saresk instead of Kol Badar - lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 ADB himself hit the nail pretty much on the head here It's pretty much essential reading for anyone who wants to dig into the background of their warband Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Indeed, that and his post from back in the 2010 as I recall, an answer on the diatribe Warband vs Traitor Legion. Both of those topics are counted as a resource for this topic, and sincerely the motivation of it too. I have yet to read about the Night Lords (I have many "lesser" novels to read trough first before I jump in the nectar) so all you Night Lord fans are very much welcome to provide your insight. Mali: Well done brother, a very detailed answer and a great many insights. I wish that this topic will not degenerate into another Legion vs Warband battle but we are all still welcome to debate. When I opted to say that the legions are no more I intended exactly that for I do not repute a traitor legion to be equal to a traitor legion warband. I also agree on the point that the ship is of cardinal importance and the pacts with the Dark Mechanicus or with the father legion of vital essence. Kilofix: Well done brother, you hit the nail with your answer. I will (perhaps later today) elaborate more on the Word Bearers but it is around this kind of answer which I plan to evolve this topic. I think that the more we go in the visceral details the better (for example, the 34th Host is also known to vat grow a special caste of slaves as sacrifices to the Dark Gods... ). Onward brothers, hunt for every snippet of lore, for every iota of material. We can do it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Lord Zhufor fled Vraks by simply jumping straight into the warp. So if your warband is truly faithful much of the logistical requirements can be abandoned. If you have faith. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Lord Zhufor fled Vraks by simply jumping straight into the warp. So if your warband is truly faithful much of the logistical requirements can be abandoned. If you have faith. And sacrifices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Alpha Legion Warbands according to the lexi are referred to as Cells. I'm not sure if this is in their operator level or full military capability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Who knows. Whatever common forms the Chaos Legions of the Eye and the Maelstrom have taken due to the similarities in their circumstances and environment, they don't apply to the Alpha Legion, and their gimmick of infiltrating Imperial structures directly. The Alpha Legion don't have any set structures or organizational patterns, even in the vague and general way that other chaos marine forces do. It's kind of their entire deal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Thanks Balthamal, I remember that post, it was one of the posts that has kept me with chaos. I am definitely interested to see how this progresses, but don't have much to contribute at the moment as I don't do a lot of reading of the 40k books and I feel that the first page or so should probably focus more on canon sources as a jumping off point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3765812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Alpha Legion Warbands according to the lexi are referred to as Cells. I'm not sure if this is in their operator level or full military capability. They are known as many things. But often it's impossible to tell if it's AL or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Indeed, that and his post from back in the 2010 as I recall, an answer on the diatribe Warband vs Traitor Legion. Both of those topics are counted as a resource for this topic, and sincerely the motivation of it too. I have yet to read about the Night Lords (I have many "lesser" novels to read trough first before I jump in the nectar) so all you Night Lord fans are very much welcome to provide your insight. Mali: Well done brother, a very detailed answer and a great many insights. I wish that this topic will not degenerate into another Legion vs Warband battle but we are all still welcome to debate. When I opted to say that the legions are no more I intended exactly that for I do not repute a traitor legion to be equal to a traitor legion warband. I also agree on the point that the ship is of cardinal importance and the pacts with the Dark Mechanicus or with the father legion of vital essence. Kilofix: Well done brother, you hit the nail with your answer. I will (perhaps later today) elaborate more on the Word Bearers but it is around this kind of answer which I plan to evolve this topic. I think that the more we go in the visceral details the better (for example, the 34th Host is also known to vat grow a special caste of slaves as sacrifices to the Dark Gods... ). Onward brothers, hunt for every snippet of lore, for every iota of material. We can do it! He also brought forward that in our last 6th edition sucked, 3.5 was better topic. Although to be fair, this topic is about the open interpretations of the now, and I will try to stay on topic. I think the vagueness of the current Warband theme has had one beneficial theme, despite no tt reprisentation. We have more freedom to choose a background than most, if not all of the armies. Most Chapter, Legion, Cult, Warband schemes, Command structures, and forces can follow a wide variety of ideas and can be fine tuned to an author's, player's, or user's imagination better than standardized doctrines and eating patterns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 I agree, nowadays between Unbound armies and the sanbodx that is a "Chaos Space Marine Warband" we have infinite ways to depict and play our armies but in all those years BL has provided us with countless ideas and patterns which should be explored. I also agree about the Alpha Legion in that they are in a constant flux hence being almost a personification of chaos as per mockery of order, but I hope some modicum of structure will be revealed to us in the future, them and the Death Guard both severly lacking books on their account. But lets step away from legion concepts and rather focus on the "warband" as individual armies which came into being during and after the Horus Heresy. A nice snippet of lore I came across today was in the HH novella Ravenlord. It takes place three years after Istvaan and it is already clear that the legions are disgregating. In the battle account we see stranded together in garrison duty marines from Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, Word Bearers and even traitor Raven Guard, all working on Fabius Bile experiments in their prison laboratory. Imagine this replicated across the galaxy and even so early in the history ark we have the foundations of warbands, as groupings of marines from all the traitor legions. These marines find themselves stranded on a world or part of the traitor fleets and they already have to pool their talents and meagre resources if they are to survive. I think that this is actually the norm for neither traitor primarch trusted his brothers and more often than not we see that they seconded some of their troops to a mixed task force as a precaution in case of betrayal or deceit. An intresting fact and quite well the basis for the majority of the traitor warbands which later escaped into the eye. Very plausible indeed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 They never trusted each other when they were Loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The idea of warbands is actually as "old" as Betrayer as Argel Tal states that the Gal Vorbak who survived Istvaan V all went their separate way to gather squads, companies and Chapters to create their own warbands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Heh, my Violator's Prophet Lord is possessed by one of the Gal Vorbak demons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Maybe we should try to clarify what a "warband" actually is. It's more than just a random conglomerate of Marines or even something that's exclusive to CSM. Technically, a warband is just the following of a Chaos Champion - it's his or her personal army or retinue. At least that's how warbands were introduced in "Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness", which applied to both 40k and Fantasy. A more recent description comes from the 4th Edition CSM Codex: Except perhaps a few dedicated to Khorne, Champions of Chaos do not live and fight alone. Other Chaos followers are drawn to them, either by the will of the gods, or through a Champion’s growing glory and reputation. These are the warbands of Chaos, and they can vary in size from a handful of individuals to mighty hosts that rival an Imperial Guard regiment in power. The most successful Champions of Chaos command vast armies of devoted warriors. For Chaos Space Marines these warbands are mostly composed of comrades they fought alongside in the Legions or their Chapter. However, it is not uncommon for renegades with very different histories to find a common cause in their service to the Ruinous Powers of Chaos. Broadly speaking, Chaos warbands can be categorized into the following: Chaos Space Marines: - Legionnaire Warbands (from the formation of the same name in the 2013 Apocalypse rulebook) - Renegade Chapters The Lost and the Damned: - Renegade Militia/Traitor Guard - Cohorts: cultists, mutants, daemonhosts ("A Cohort is generally said to consist of between 1,000 and 5,000 men: the equivalent of an Imperial Guard regiment in manpower but far inferior in terms of supporting units." From WD 278: Codicium Imperialis - The First War for Armageddon) Alpha Legion Warbands according to the lexi are referred to as Cells. I'm not sure if this is in their operator level or full military capability.It seems, in this case the lexicanum is mixing stuff up. The term "cell" is used to describe their Chaos Cults in the Index Astartes article. All other sources refer to their forces as warbands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Word Bearers - 34th Host - How the CSM Warband came into existence? The warband is a quite standard Word Bearers host which has been operational since the early days of the Great Crusade and active in both the Horus Heresy and post Scouring. It has been expanded by the Dark Council in M41. - How is the CSM Warband structured? The 34th Host can be considered a traditional Word Bearers formation. At its head there is the Dark Apostle, followed by his Dark Acolyte and assisted by the Coryphaus (field commander, rite master). The highest echelons of the warband are also comprised of The Annointed, a devout terminator unit and bodyguard as well as some specialists (Dark Mechanicus Techpriest) can also be included in the inner circle. The lower ranks are mostly slaves of all stripes. Most of them are zealous cultists or indentured workers, both overseen by a special caste of "Overseers". There is also a separate caste of slaves who are relegated to sacrificial or sacral duties. They are a distinct caste of servants and usually have a ceremonial role. It is also known that the warband breeds its own slaves as vat grown creatures with the sole purpose of ritual sacrifice. - How does the CSM Warband function? The 34th Host is a very organized and structured army. The command is passed from the Dark Apostle down the line via his Dark Acolyte and his Coryphaus. The Dark Acolyte has a more institutional role as a figure of ritual and veneration while the Coryphaus acts as the de facto military commander and advisor to the Host, with a function of leading his warriors into ritual as a master of rites. The Corphaus has underneath him the full array of the Host which is divided in cohorts and coteries. A cohort can be considered a demicompany sized unit while a coterie is a squad of up to two dozen marines, lead by Aspiring Champions. The novels write of a middle layer of commanders who intermediate between the cohorts and the Coryphaus, described as Line-Captains, Veteran Sergeants but can be considered of Lieutenant rank. The warband has distinct rituals which are performed before, after and in some case during a battle. The warriors are blessed by the Dark Apostle, the Corpyhaus leads the Host into ritual chanting and prayer and it is understood that the squad leaders will punish and beat their legionnaires if they were not selected to stand at the side of the Dark Apostle if he goes to battle. It is also known that there is a vast complement of Daemon Engines which are maintained by a dedicated caste of servants. This Daemonic Engines can be considered a third section of the warband and have multiple roles, be it as construction machines as well as deadly linebreaker units. - Known key figures in the CSM Warband? The 34th Host has a clear command structure. Initially led by Sor Talgron a former Captain of the Word Bearers, elevated to the rank of Dark Apostle and later interred in the Dreadnought can be considered the figure of legend for the host. He was followed in his steps by Jarulek, a Dark Apostle who served as Dark Acolyte to the Warmonger and who was later dispatched by his own acolyte Marduk. The 34th Host is now led by Dark Apostle Marduk by the grace of the Dark Council and by the will of his Host. Along this spiritual chain of command there is a clear military command structure. Led by the Corpyhaus Kol Badar who acts as military leader and advisor to his Dark Apostle, as well as a master of rites for his warriors. The Coryphaus has the duty to command the Host in battle, to oversee all military matters and devise the strategies for the persecution of war. Every warrior in the warband is subject to him and he personally leads the Anointed, the terminator elite of the Host. There is also mention of several individual champions like the Possessed Burias Drak'Shal, the commanders of the Havoc and Assault Squad as well as figures like the corrupted Mechanicus Techpriest Darioq-Grendh’al. It is later learned that the Host has also acquired a powerful priestess and oracle of Davinite bloodline. - Relationships in the CSM Warband? The relationships in the warband seem to be quite linear, with Aspiring Champions vying for glory, with Burias Drak'Shal attempting to usurp the position of Corphaus and with the Dark Apostle and Dark Acolyte playing their games for power and prestige. Only on rare occurrences this intern strife was cause of concern for more often than not the Host appeared as an unified army when facing both their enemies as well as their "allies" from the other traitor warbands. - Describe the key assets of the CSM Warband? The Warband is described to have around 1000 astartes at the beginning of the series, a full complement of daemon engines and a strong contingent of daemon allies. On Tanakreg they enslaved the local population and forced them to build the Gehemahnet tower. We also read about a strong lance of Predator Tanks, Land Raiders, Rhinos and Helbrutes as well as a sizeable force of daemon engines in the form of stalk tanks as well as technoarcane construction machines. The fighting strength can be considered on par or even superior to a standard space marine chapter in its entirety. - How are the Chaos Space Marines supported in battle and post battle? The battle for Tanakreg shows that the warband supports its marine assets with units of Possessed scouts, with Helbrutes as linebreakers and with the armoured vehicles as the strong points. The Anointed terminators act as a powerful elite unit which is usually led against the thickest enemy formations. Post battle the novels describe that the wounded and fallen chaos space marines are removed from the battlefield for it is considered a sacrilege if they fall into enemy hands. The wounded receive medical treatment and daemonic or bionic prosthesis if need be (daemonic eye for Marduk, bionic hand for one of his champions). We read of a caste of chirumek slaves who appear to be either specialized medical drones or actual medics and chirurgeons. The Daemonic Engines are unleashed during battle left mostly to their devices and restrained by vocal and magic commands post battle. As for the tanks and the war machines of the Host they are retrieved whenever it is practicable but the Warband does not concern itself much with the losses of this machines. - Which are the known sources of geneseed, war material and supplies? The novels do not describe the source of geneseed but it can be assumed that they are a "legion warband" which means that the majority of its stock comes from the Word Bearers bloodline. It is imperative the recovery of the wounded and killed astartes and it is known that several Aspiring Champions have used the geneseed of their fallen comrades in ritual. It is implied that on Sicarus the Word Bearers have gene factories which allow the "production" of new astartes. Most of the war material and supplies comes from two sources, "Blessed Sicarus" as the throne world of the Word Bearers domain as well as from Ghalmek, a daemonic forge world in the Maelstrom. The novels also write about a host of vehicles, transports and fliers which have been looted and refitted for service as landers. - Which are the naval assets of the CSM Warband? The Warband has its base of operations as well as its main asset in the form of the Infidus Diabolus, a Strike Cruiser class battleship. - Known battlefield tactics of the CSM Warband and their impact on the Warband structure? The 34th Host seems mostly as a generic unit, preferring assaults of massed infantry and astartes supported by armour and daemons. It is also implied that the warband is not averse to covert operations but this cannot be considered their normal modus operandi. Their preference for the use of direct and shock assaults can be seen in the formation of the Anointed, the personal bodyguard of the Coryphaus and the terminator elite of the warband. - Relationship between the Chaos entities and the Warband, the intermediation between the two? Being led by a Dark Apostle, the 34th Host can call upon a host of daemonic entities and it seems that the veneration of a specific chaos god (Khorne in the case of the assault squad) is frowned upon. The Warband understands the merits of dedicating to a single god but they see it as impractical in the long term (when confronted with the DG Plague Marines). They seem also open to sacrifice on massive scale and the building of the revered Gehemahnet towers. Being a Word Bearers warband they are fanatics to a man but they are willing to oppose to powerful daemonic entities (The Tallyman) as well as offering themselves to daemons and gods (Possessed, Slaanesh). - Key battles of the Warband and their impact on the Warband? Tanakreg severly wounded the Host but also gained them a powerful artefact. Perdus Skylla showed their skill in small units operations an the invasion of the Boros Gate showed the full might of the Word Bearers in battle with their most hated foes. Each battle was significant for it shaped the relationships of the warband as well as opened their eyes to betrayers within and outside their ranks. - Logistics of the Warband? The warband supplies itself in the forges of Sicarus and with the acquisition of material on the many raids. It can be considered a well supplied and supported warband. Rich in resources, manpower and contracts to see them operational even after the deadly clash on Tanakreg and Boros Gate. - Known specialists, cults and factions in the Warband? Worth of notice are the Possessed led by Burias Drak'Shal, the Anointed led by Coryphaus Kol Badar and the Warmonger, an ancient chaos dreadnought, formerly a Dark Apostle. We learn of the assault marines favouring the worship of Khorne and of several elite or veteran units in the form of tactical squads and havoc squads. - The use and the abuse of the "mortal" assets? The 34th Host is known to have enslaved the population of Tanakreg and used them as indentured workers and forced converts. The novels also mention gun-clans from Colchis, enhanced Overseers and a vat grown sacrificial slaves. it is implied that the warband has massive resources at its disposal for the conversion of its slaves (Discords, Overseers, chaos brands, mass possessions...). - Relationships with the other CSM Warbands? Tense. Forced to cooperate with several other Word Bearers hosts in the battle for Boros Gate, the warband always stood clear of their brothers and only reluctantly supported them in battle. The 34th Host is also heavily influenced by the Dark Council via its Dark Apostles and Dark Acolytes. The relationship with the other "traitor legion warbands" are distant but not always violent, even cordial and balanced. - Strongholds of the CSM Warband? The Infidus Diabolous is their main naval asset and their only known stronghold. The Dark Apostles shared a tower on Sicarus and it was implied that each Host has one such fortress on the shrine world of the Word Bearers. - Specialized slave classes? Vat grown sacrificial slaves. Overseer class as enhanced commanders of the slave masses. Cultists which are influenced by the Warp even before the Warband appears to them. The warband also has a host of servants for ritual duties. - Size of the Warband? Initially was 1000+ marines and the full complement of armour and daemonic engines to support them in battle. By the end of the Boros Gate Dark Crusade the 34th Host has around 200 astartes. - Armoury, known special or daemonic weapons, vehicles? Warmonger - Helbrute Discords - daemonic engines, overseers, preaching machines Minelayer/Minesweeper daemonic engines Borhg'ash - daemon weapon, chainsword Source: Dark Apostle (Novel) by Anthony Reynolds Dark Disciple (Novel) by Anthony Reynolds Dark Creed (Novel) by Anthony Reynolds Word Bearers Omnibus, "Tormented" (Short Story) by Anthony Reynolds The Tallyman, Short Story by Anthony Reynolds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3766547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 In a way, the fact that Astartes are so incapable of going completely solo without "mere human" support (in the form of slaves-be they willing or taken) is sort of telling in how they were designed. That said-I have MANY issues with the basic elements of Astartes in general, from their gestation rate compared to the creation of new Chapters, to some of their component organs. I don't think CSM warbands can actually exist, given the scarity of necessary resources (Navigators, or reliable, suitable replacement) skilled, subservient human labor (pilots and weapons officers of ships, artificers, engineers). You can get hand-wavy and say "The gods of chaos provided it for them, wooooo magical answers!" like considering how big astartes are-they probably have a MASSIVE nutritional requirement (which explains the organ that allows them to digest just about any organic matter as food and water). Space is big. Suitable targets for attack for potential raids are few and far between. They have to be easy targets. "Oh by my Iron Warriors blah blah blah." they still got to worry about running out of ammo-irreplacable losses of material and astartes. Too much damaged power armor and...well you got a bunch of guys running around wearing trash cans or something. I think that's my biggest complaint with Chaos Space Marines in a thematic sense: They cannot logically be. (LOL chaos is illogical) okay, but even if Huey, Dewey, Louie and Screwy all chip in to various champions-it's not going to be enough to get them through. Yeah GW has it happen, but seriously-it wouldn't. Chaos is as much a non-threat in the fiction as they are on the tabletop. The majority are contained within the eye of terror, where they are literally starving to death and probably eating eachother to try and survive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3767089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That's why I think a big part of a minor warband's life (by 'minor' read one that cannot survive on its own) is made up of bargains and dirty works for people that can provide them with what the warband needs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3767094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The eye is full of habitable worlds. Forge worlds, agri worlds, etc. Mutated beyond reason, some of them, but not uninhabitable, and it's a huge region of the galaxy. If we want to get into specifics, though, literally none of the 40k setting 'works' even in terms of basic physics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3767095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 @ Trevak Dal If you have Black Crusade RPG books especially the Tomes you could read about lots of interesting Daemon/Chaos worlds that have semi-functioning societies and empires. The tzeentchian world Q'sal is a good example. The Daemonforges and the Dark Mechanicus Forgeworlds produce most of the equipment that isn't looted from Loyalists. It's just that they don't hand it out for free. There actually is a huge economy within the Eye of Terror that revolves mostly around slaves, souls, knowledge and weaponry but also mundane things like food and clothing. Also most sufficiently pious Chaos Warbands don't actually need navigators. Their sorcerors can guide them to the Warp just fine and I don't think Khorne would let his favourite Berzerkers get lost in the Warp on the way to a battle because they killed all their psykers.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294630-the-mechanics-of-a-chaos-warband/#findComment-3767747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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