The Legion for you... Community Assistance Thread

[1000 Sons]

What do you do when you hate the fluff of a legion (word bearers) but have fallen in love with their models ?   Can the Word Bearers function well if I never use kor phaeron or erebus, or do they add too many benefits to the army to avoid ?

[Doctor Perils]

You can always create your own chapter of the word bearers, with your own characters, that you "count as" kor or erebus.

[LordBlades]

I'm looking into getting into Horus Heresy at some point once the plastic models hit, nut I'm reaaaly torn between several legions:

 

-Death Guard I like the idea of a tough and shooty army withba focuscon chemical warfare (that's what I gathered from 1d4chan they are) and Mortarion seems like a cool model and rules, I like their fluff that I read so far, but it just seems a bit undersupported in this field (not much fluff I have read about Death Guard beyond Istvaan and the adventures of Nathaniel Garro). As a result, I can't really get a feeling about how they're really like as a legion.

 

-World Bearers I like their models a lot (their specific units seem the most unique), I like that they can take Daemon allies (another unique thing), but I really dislike the fact that, fluff-wise, they seem the legion that fails most at being marines. Lorgar never wanted to be a warrior, and I don't really recall any campaign during the Heresy where the Word Bearers actually won. Subjectively, I have some truble playing a bunch of lousy warriors in such a fluff driven game.

 

-Salamanders I love their fluff, but their rules seem very new player unfriendly (slow, close-range army that suffers badly from being outmaneuvred).

 

-Alpha Legion I love all the shenanigans you can do in the game. It doesn't look very new player friendly either, but it's something I'd love to experiment with. My issue us all the shroud of mystery that surrounds the legion. I love reading about it, but how can you identify with (and play) a legion you know almost nothing (certain) about?

[Atia]

 

 

-Death Guard I like the idea of a tough and shooty army withba focuscon chemical warfare (that's what I gathered from 1d4chan they are) and Mortarion seems like a cool model and rules, I like their fluff that I read so far, but it just seems a bit undersupported in this field (not much fluff I have read about Death Guard beyond Istvaan and the adventures of Nathaniel Garro). As a result, I can't really get a feeling about how they're really like as a legion.

Vengeful Spirit, Scars and Blades of the Traitor have also some stuff about the Death Guard in it^^

 

 

 

-World Bearers I like their models a lot (their specific units seem the most unique), I like that they can take Daemon allies (another unique thing), but I really dislike the fact that, fluff-wise, they seem the legion that fails most at being marines. Lorgar never wanted to be a warrior, and I don't really recall any campaign during the Heresy where the Word Bearers actually won. Subjectively, I have some truble playing a bunch of lousy warriors in such a fluff driven game.

read Betrayer by ADB - they had alot of wins during the Shadow Crusade (alongside the World Eaters)

 

 

 

-Salamanders I love their fluff, but their rules seem very new player unfriendly (slow, close-range army that suffers badly from being outmaneuvred).

play Zone Mortalis and have fun :P

 

 

 

-Alpha Legion I love all the shenanigans you can do in the game. It doesn't look very new player friendly either, but it's something I'd love to experiment with. My issue us all the shroud of mystery that surrounds the legion. I love reading about it, but how can you identify with (and play) a legion you know almost nothing (certain) about? 

while i know what you mean, it also opens the way to make "your own stuff" more than any other legion - f.e. i would make an army based on the laernean veterans :)

[Doctor Perils]

 

 

 

-Death Guard I like the idea of a tough and shooty army withba focuscon chemical warfare (that's what I gathered from 1d4chan they are) and Mortarion seems like a cool model and rules, I like their fluff that I read so far, but it just seems a bit undersupported in this field (not much fluff I have read about Death Guard beyond Istvaan and the adventures of Nathaniel Garro). As a result, I can't really get a feeling about how they're really like as a legion.

Vengeful Spirit, Scars and Blades of the Traitor have also some stuff about the Death Guard in it^^

 

 

 

-World Bearers I like their models a lot (their specific units seem the most unique), I like that they can take Daemon allies (another unique thing), but I really dislike the fact that, fluff-wise, they seem the legion that fails most at being marines. Lorgar never wanted to be a warrior, and I don't really recall any campaign during the Heresy where the Word Bearers actually won. Subjectively, I have some truble playing a bunch of lousy warriors in such a fluff driven game.

read Betrayer by ADB - they had alot of wins during the Shadow Crusade (alongside the World Eaters)

 

 

Yep, Word Bearers can't really be seen as "losing". That's one thing that I find so infuriating about the portrayal of the Iron Warriors: There isn't one major battle that the Iron Warriors lead on their own and win (that I'm aware of) - Istvaan V they win, but aren't alone and aren't said to do anything interesting, Phall they lose, Tallarn they Lose, Terra they lose, the Iron Cage they lose...

However, I think that LordBlades means that the Word Bearers aren't portrayed as having a military mentality. However, I think there is a slight confusion caused by Lorgar who is definitely portrayed as a priest rather than a soldier or general, but many Word Bearers are really warriors (Argel Tal for instance). The Salamanders are much further in general from the warrior spirit than the Word Bearers, but that isn't a problem either.

 

I do agree with LordBlades about the lack of Death Guard stories though, because they basically only play cameos in the Black Library books (or at least the novels) I think that there should be a full blown novel focussing on the Death Guard, because they deserve the attention far more than the Ultramarines I believe. (I'm thoroughly fed up with the Calth series)

[LordBlades]

 

 

 

 

-Death Guard I like the idea of a tough and shooty army withba focuscon chemical warfare (that's what I gathered from 1d4chan they are) and Mortarion seems like a cool model and rules, I like their fluff that I read so far, but it just seems a bit undersupported in this field (not much fluff I have read about Death Guard beyond Istvaan and the adventures of Nathaniel Garro). As a result, I can't really get a feeling about how they're really like as a legion.

Vengeful Spirit, Scars and Blades of the Traitor have also some stuff about the Death Guard in it^^

 

 

 

-World Bearers I like their models a lot (their specific units seem the most unique), I like that they can take Daemon allies (another unique thing), but I really dislike the fact that, fluff-wise, they seem the legion that fails most at being marines. Lorgar never wanted to be a warrior, and I don't really recall any campaign during the Heresy where the Word Bearers actually won. Subjectively, I have some truble playing a bunch of lousy warriors in such a fluff driven game.

read Betrayer by ADB - they had alot of wins during the Shadow Crusade (alongside the World Eaters)

 

 

Yep, Word Bearers can't really be seen as "losing". That's one thing that I find so infuriating about the portrayal of the Iron Warriors: There isn't one major battle that the Iron Warriors lead on their own and win (that I'm aware of) - Istvaan V they win, but aren't alone and aren't said to do anything interesting, Phall they lose, Tallarn they Lose, Terra they lose, the Iron Cage they lose...

However, I think that LordBlades means that the Word Bearers aren't portrayed as having a military mentality. However, I think there is a slight confusion caused by Lorgar who is definitely portrayed as a priest rather than a soldier or general, but many Word Bearers are really warriors (Argel Tal for instance). The Salamanders are much further in general from the warrior spirit than the Word Bearers, but that isn't a problem either.

 

I do agree with LordBlades about the lack of Death Guard stories though, because they basically only play cameos in the Black Library books (or at least the novels) I think that there should be a full blown novel focussing on the Death Guard, because they deserve the attention far more than the Ultramarines I believe. (I'm thoroughly fed up with the Calth series)

 

 

I have to confess I didn't read much about the Shadow Crusade yet (only about halfway through the Heresy book series, up to Age of Darkness currently). My impression of the Word Bearers was mainly founded on:

 

- The battle of Calth, where they still lost in the end despite achieving total surprise and a horrendous amount of damage on the Ultramarines in the opening moves of the battle.

- The Battle for the Abyss book, where the Word Bearer contingent aboard the Furious Abyss seems to far rather poorly in combat with the Ultramarines, World Eaters and Space Wolves

 

Time for some purely mechanical questions :P

 

I will probably start by splitting a plastic Horus Heresy set when it comes out, and then probably not make much additional purchases for a few months. Assuming the rumors are true, I'd be getting:

 

-20x Tactical Marines (There are a handful of Tactical bits on the sprue for Sergeants & other specialists, but not entirely different specialist models.)

-5x Cataphractii Terminators

-1x Contemptor Dreadnought

-1x Legio Centurion/Praetor (with bits for various Consul options)

 

Out of the 4 legions I'm currently interested in, which one do you think could make the most of this little army ?

 

Ultimately: I know Alpha Legion can be one of the best armies in 30k. Word Bearers have access to a Primarch with Invisiblity and one of the better 40k armies as allies (Chaos Daemons). What about Salamanders and Death Guard?

[Doctor Perils]

- The Battle for the Abyss book, where the Word Bearer contingent aboard the Furious Abyss seems to far rather poorly in combat with the Ultramarines, World Eaters and Space Wolves

Time for some purely mechanical questions

I will probably start by splitting a plastic Horus Heresy set when it comes out, and then probably not make much additional purchases for a few months. Assuming the rumors are true, I'd be getting:

-20x Tactical Marines (There are a handful of Tactical bits on the sprue for Sergeants & other specialists, but not entirely different specialist models.)

-5x Cataphractii Terminators

-1x Contemptor Dreadnought

-1x Legio Centurion/Praetor (with bits for various Consul options)

Out of the 4 legions I'm currently interested in, which one do you think could make the most of this little army ?

Ultimately: I know Alpha Legion can be one of the best armies in 30k. Word Bearers have access to a Primarch with Invisiblity and one of the better 40k armies as allies (Chaos Daemons). What about Salamanders and Death Guard?

Battle of the Abyss is considered one of the worst books in the series, so don't believe what you read there. Trust First Heretic and you'll see a much better representation of any of the Legions concerned (generally, ADB is a safe bet )

We really aren't sure of the rumours, but the army they talk about is pretty much the mainstay of all the Legions. It fits any of the Legions, even the more exotic ones like Thousand Sons and Space Wolves.

I believe Lorgar's invisibility was taken away ?

But the most important question is which Legion you feel like representing and painting, not which one is the "strongest"

[LordBlades]

Battle of the Abyss is considered one of the worst books in the series, so don't believe what you read there. Trust First Heretic and you'll see a much better representation of any of the Legions concerned (generally, ADB is a safe bet )

We really aren't sure of the rumours, but the army they talk about is pretty much the mainstay of all the Legions. It fits any of the Legions, even the more exotic ones like Thousand Sons and Space Wolves.

I believe Lorgar's invisibility was taken away ?

But the most important question is which Legion you feel like representing and painting, not which one is the "strongest"

You're right about Invisibility. I just came across Invisible Lorgar on 1d4chan in some of the Primarch vs. Primarch analysis, but it looks it was simply not updated.

Also, while whichever legion is stronger doesn't account for much in my choice of legion as I understood the system is pretty balanced, so weaker doesn't equal 'always loses' I feel better if I know what I am getting myself into beforehand :)

[Atia]

Also, if you want to read more about the Death Guard and what they did in the earlier Heresy -> you need to read Conquest from FW^^ that Campaign was made to give both SoH and DG more spotlight (and introduced Knight houses for both Legions :P)

[LordBlades]

Upon digging some more stuff about the Shadow Crusade, I'm leaning more and more toward Word Bearers....

 

 

EDIT: Which of the Horus Heresy books contain the needed information about making a World Bearers army?

[KJB]

Do many of you guys mix GW plastics in with your resin?

 

I'm thinking of going for a predominantly MK IV force with a healthy amount of the Blood angels plastic kit mixed in.

 

Force will be led by that totally awesome Sanguinary Priest (well, until Amit/Sanguinius arrive...)

 

Yay or Nay?

[GhostMalone]

Yay^^

 

I just used the new Assault squad box to start building up 20 man assault squads mixing in resin backpacks and helms and the odd chainsword and just making sure it's not all 40k like.

 

Using mkvii legs as trial MkV

 

Edit: http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-14%2013.10.41_zpszf50jggk.jpg

[Soldier of Dorn]

Do many of you guys mix GW plastics in with your resin?

 

I'm thinking of going for a predominantly MK IV force with a healthy amount of the Blood angels plastic kit mixed in.

 

Force will be led by that totally awesome Sanguinary Priest (well, until Amit/Sanguinius arrive...)

 

Yay or Nay?

This is the entire reason my HH force right now is Ninth Legion.

 

So, yea. Look at as many Heresy project logs on here as you can. 90% of them use at least some plastic parts of a sort. I mean, sure, you can do a purely Forge World force but it's rather limiting visually. If you include plastic you increase the realm of available bits quite dramatically.

 

At least, that's my opinion. People are ever entitled to their own.

[1000 Sons]

Upon digging some more stuff about the Shadow Crusade, I'm leaning more and more toward Word Bearers....

 

 

EDIT: Which of the Horus Heresy books contain the needed information about making a World Bearers army?

Book 5 Tempest has all the rules for the current Word Bearer army, you could get the legion red book for a cheaper price but it doesn't have the rules for Zardu Layak and the blade slaves.

 

I know you were talking about Death Guard earlier, after just finishing my first 30k game, they are a ton of fun, the 2 terminator special units are nasty, and Mortarion with his 6'' move and 10'' jump can get all over the table tearing things apart.

[Viridia]

Do many of you guys mix GW plastics in with your resin?

 

I'm thinking of going for a predominantly MK IV force with a healthy amount of the Blood angels plastic kit mixed in.

 

Force will be led by that totally awesome Sanguinary Priest (well, until Amit/Sanguinius arrive...)

 

Yay or Nay?

 

Well, I've got my IF's using 40k-era meltaguns for convenience, but I'm sticking with FW and Anvil Industries models for them. My Night Lords on the other hand are going to be mixing everything from Mk II-IV armour with what bits of Mk VII I can disguise in there, and as others have told me before, there's nothing stopping you from doing what you want with what is your army.

[BloodFox]

Not sure what I want to do for my Legion. I'm still waiting on my books to arrive so I'll be waiting on making a final decision until then, but I've narrowed it down to 2 choices just from what I've read on this thread. My reasoning is based off of both fluff and the rules I've heard and understand.

1: Imperial Fists

Pros: Siege Warfare Specialists

BS 5 bolters

T 5 Beachers (Love the way breachers look )

Phalanx Warders (though I hear they are overpriced...)

Paint Scheme (Yellow and Black looks striking)

Cons: Paint Scheme (Yellow and Black is rather bright and I'm not very confident in painting it)

No special termie unit

Primarch model has not been released yet. (not a huge complaint but its still there)

2: Death Guard

Pros: Focus on tough resilient infantry (I love infantry for warhammer, power armor looks amazing)

2 special termie units

Manreapers (look absolutely amazing!)

Rad grenades sound usefull as *BLEEP!*

Paint Scheme (I like the look of off white and green with red symbols. Bright and eye catching without straining the eyes with neon colors)

Primarch model has been released (not a huge consideration but eh)

Cons: Not sure how much I'd use chem weapons (need to see the rule book when it arrives)

Manreapers (they may be backed by the Rule of Cool, but from what I've read on them they aren't actually all that useful)

Paint Scheme (I like the colors but adding in all the wear, rust, stains, and general shabbiness I'm not a huge fan of for both looks and actually doing it)

Limited Fast Attack (Not sure if this is true but I think I read on the tactica for DG that they only get one fast attack slot for their army. Not a huge factor for me but I still would like the option of at least 2)

I'm sure that eventually I'll get around to doing both of them, but for what army I'm going to start off with its a tough choice.

[Fire Golem]

You don't have to weather the crap out of your Death Guard if you like the colours but don't like weathering.

[Charlo]

Also DG are only limited in fast attack if you take thier Rite of War, the reaping. Which you have to do to get widespread Rad Grenades...

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's not a popular opinion but IMO reaping is trash and should only be taken in larger (3000-3500) games. Build your army around the cool infantry wave (works perfectly for DG), maybe get some rad or phosphex in there, grave wardens are wicked models and shred all non marines and if you get enough model and HS consider running reaping in that case; making a starting list to such a limiting rite of war would end very poorly

[crimsonhand]

When it comes to Word Bearers, you're forgetting; after they were repremanded by the Emperor, they were actually the most successful Legion for a good long time. 
They were bringing words into compliance or wiping them out faster than anyone else. 

 

To say Calth was a loss is just plain not true. It was a great success and crippled the Ultramarines... also please remember, they ARE the bad guys - they can't ACTUALLY win lol

[LordBlades]

Are there really any good guys in the 40k or 30k world? :p

 

I view Calth as a loss because, despite having all advantages, the World Bearers still got pushed back eventually.

[Doctor Perils]

Yeah but Calth was meant to be a Massacre to perform a ritual... that's a check

 

However, the Shadow Crusade overall was a failure.

[Fire Golem]

Are there really any good guys in the 40k or 30k world? :p

I view Calth as a loss because, despite having all advantages, the World Bearers still got pushed back eventually.

They achieved their objectives so they didn't lose. They performed a lot worse than they should have done though, I'll grant you that haha.

[Warsmith Aznable]

That's one thing that I find so infuriating about the portrayal of the Iron Warriors: There isn't one major battle that the Iron Warriors lead on their own and win (that I'm aware of) - Istvaan V they win, but aren't alone and aren't said to do anything interesting, Phall they lose, Tallarn they Lose, Terra they lose, the Iron Cage they lose...

Outside of Storm of Iron the BL seem to use the IVth as generic bad guy mooks, probably because of their lack of a defining Chaos alignment. Either that or they're running too long with the theme of bitter, under appreciated work horses. Siege of Castellax in particular stands out as representative of the BL's general problem in dealing with IW; they couldn't even win in their own high light book...

 

But I disagree that the Iron Cage, at least, is a loss. Dorn mouthed off and then ran head first into a trap, and his entire Legion had their asses shot off so hard that, even though Dorn survived, breaking the Legion into chapters suddenly seemed like a good idea. I feel pretty strongly that Perturabo made the point he wanted to make, and it seems the Ruinous Powers agreed enough to accept the resultant geneseed sacrifice and elevate him to daemon-prince status.

 

The important takeaway from the Iron Cage is that Legion to Legion the Iron Warriors were systematically dismantling the Imperial Fists, who would have been the third lost legion if the Ultramarines hadn't interfered.

[Doctor Perils]

But I disagree that the Iron Cage, at least, is a loss. Dorn mouthed off and then ran head first into a trap, and his entire Legion had their asses shot off so hard that, even though Dorn survived, breaking the Legion into chapters suddenly seemed like a good idea. I feel pretty strongly that Perturabo made the point he wanted to make, and it seems the Ruinous Powers agreed enough to accept the resultant geneseed sacrifice and elevate him to daemon-prince status.

The important takeaway from the Iron Cage is that Legion to Legion the Iron Warriors were systematically dismantling the Imperial Fists, who would have been the third lost legion if the Ultramarines hadn't interfered.

I have to admit that I don't know that much about the Iron Cage, I was merely running on the information that is presented in the 40k wikia