The Talon Of Horus

[Volt]

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

[Sulemain]

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

He's a pskyer, the memory is in the warp somewhere. And he got the details wrong. 

[Volt]

 

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

He's a pskyer, the memory is in the warp somewhere. And he got the details wrong. 

 

How did he get the details wrong? The Teutonics especially didn't discriminate their targets much at all. The Crusaders didn't just target the Muslims, they went after everybody from pagans to the Catholic Church itself.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

 

He's a pskyer, the memory is in the warp somewhere. And he got the details wrong.

How did he get the details wrong? The Teutonics especially didn't discriminate their targets much at all. The Crusaders didn't just target the Muslims, they went after everybody from pagans to the Catholic Church itself.

The teutonic knights didn't have anything to do with a crusade in France while they were consolidating their hold on the Baltic...

[Volt]

 

 

 

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

He's a pskyer, the memory is in the warp somewhere. And he got the details wrong.

How did he get the details wrong? The Teutonics especially didn't discriminate their targets much at all. The Crusaders didn't just target the Muslims, they went after everybody from pagans to the Catholic Church itself.

The teutonic knights didn't have anything to do with a crusade in France while they were consolidating their hold on the Baltic...

 

Depends by Crusades if you mean those declared by the Pope, or those campaigns that were still religious in nature but not declared by the Church.

 

Of course, there's also the failed Crusade that sacked Rome and pillaged it due to a hilarious series of events.

[Lucien Eilam]

What do the Teutonic Knights, Muslims or the 12th century have to do with a 13th century French crusade to eradicate Catharism?

 

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

 
I assumed the Ragged Knight told him (willingly or not, directly or by way of a vision, seeing the essence of what it is, or whatever), its creation being the entire point of telling that story.
 

And he got the details wrong.

Which ones? It reads like a fairly direct retelling of the sack of Béziers to me, aside from attributing the famous quotation to the Pope himself rather than his legate.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

 

 

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

He's a pskyer, the memory is in the warp somewhere. And he got the details wrong.

How did he get the details wrong? The Teutonics especially didn't discriminate their targets much at all. The Crusaders didn't just target the Muslims, they went after everybody from pagans to the Catholic Church itself.

The teutonic knights didn't have anything to do with a crusade in France while they were consolidating their hold on the Baltic...

Depends by Crusades if you mean those declared by the Pope, or those campaigns that were still religious in nature but not declared by the Church.

 

Of course, there's also the failed Crusade that sacked Rome and pillaged it due to a hilarious series of events.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the Cathars.

[A D-B]

Having recently re-read it, I would really like to ask something rather weird about the book. How the hell does Khayon know about the original Crusades from the 12th Century onward? That part of writing was still exceptionally good, but it feels odd for somebody living in 41,000 to know about an event that took place over 39,000 years ago when the Imperium can't even remember where all of its planets are located.

 

Good question, but with a sadly straight answer (as already noted by Lucien). I usually like to have far future characters getting historical details fairly wrong in keeping with general 40K-verse ignorance, coupled with the fact that things in history are always melted into a mix of guesswork, misattribution, and whatever else over a long enough time period. In this case, though, Khayon has a perspective not readily available to Imperial scholars. He's a demon-binder, and he can literally talk to creatures that were there at the time. The Ragged Knight wasn't just there, either; its entire existence is shaped by that day. It's the psychic echo of everything that happened there: all the thoughts, deeds, and emotions of the men, women, and children in that particular event of the Albigensian Crusade.

 

Of course, there are still a few details wrong because Time + Daemonic interpretation of a human event + Khayon's assumptions = a 50/50 chance (at best) of historical clarity, but this isn't like a far future reference to real world history where you think "How do they know about President Obama?" or whatever. In this case, Khayon literally talks to 'people' that were 'alive' at the time. He's a demon-binder, and he hunts down "interesting" daemons for his collection, from major moments in human history, as they're often the most powerful.  

 

Probably not a practice unique to him, by any means. He's one of the few that are very good at it by M41, though. The Black Legion isn't led by Average Joe Chaos Marines, after all.

[DarKnight]

Must be a lot of WWI-era daemons then.

[Ethrion]

I liked how despite having a vast knowledge unknown to nearly everyone in the Imperium Khayon still didn't know what an apple was, a World Eater had to tell him, brilliant.

[Volt]

Must be a lot of WWI-era daemons then.

Any author that depicted a WWI Daemon looking like Sauron would win a lot of points for me as a Tolkien fan.

 

Hint hint.

 

 

 

I liked how despite having a vast knowledge unknown to nearly everyone in the Imperium Khayon still didn't know what an apple was, a World Eater had to tell him, brilliant.

That was one of the more intelligent parts of the book, considering that random planets colonized thousands of years ago are unlikely to have the same flora. Unless somebody specifically brought apples or cattle to a world, you're eating Grox.

[Marshal Rohr]

Must be a lot of WWI-era daemons then.

 

Lets hope the binding of demons created from battles doesn't become BL new flavor of the month theme. The Ragged Knight is cool, but Gav Thrope or Rob Sanders taking another of A DBs ideas and putting their own spin on it until everyone at BL got their turn (like Khârn and the dueling pits) would get old fast. Not to mention we'd have typical, unsubtle silliness from he lower-tier authors, like a Demon made of crashed helicopters from Mogadishu or a pair of talking mushroom clouds from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

[DarKnight]

 

Must be a lot of WWI-era daemons then.

 

Lets hope the binding of demons created from battles doesn't become BL new flavor of the month theme. The Ragged Knight is cool, but Gav Thrope or Rob Sanders taking another of A DBs ideas and putting their own spin on it until everyone at BL got their turn (like Khârn and the dueling pits) would get old fast. Not to mention we'd have typical, unsubtle silliness from he lower-tier authors, like a Demon made of crashed helicopters from Mogadishu or a pair of talking mushroom clouds from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

 

Welp, you put it out there. Gotta happen now.

[Volt]

 

Must be a lot of WWI-era daemons then.

 

Lets hope the binding of demons created from battles doesn't become BL new flavor of the month theme. The Ragged Knight is cool, but Gav Thrope or Rob Sanders taking another of A DBs ideas and putting their own spin on it until everyone at BL got their turn (like Khârn and the dueling pits) would get old fast. Not to mention we'd have typical, unsubtle silliness from he lower-tier authors, like a Demon made of crashed helicopters from Mogadishu or a pair of talking mushroom clouds from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

 

Naw. A Daemon fromed from Hiroshima and Nagasaki would clearly be a gigantic demon lizard also made from the combined suffering of everyone in the Pacific War.

[Marshal Rohr]

Now that I've said it, I think a Daemon made up of spent brass would be kind of cool. Like a wave that drowns people in hot brass, and they feel the desperation of soldiers who died on full auto as their positions were overwhelmed. 

 

 

 

 

:cuss, maybe it is a cooler idea than I thought...

[drooling blood]

Thorpe should be put out to pasture. Dont get me started on kymes salamanders. They should both be shot.

 

So ADB your sick of the heresy. Is that because they want you to pump a novella evey day. Emperor that xmas dorrah :cuss annoyed the :cuss outa me.

 

No i really just wanna know if Magnus is going to get shafted again. Which by the sounds of things he is, He has to win sometimes otherwise his moustache curling doesnt mean a thing

[Volt]

Thorpe should be put out to pasture. Dont get me started on kymes salamanders. They should both be shot.

So ADB your sick of the heresy. Is that because they want you to pump a novella evey day. Emperor that xmas dorrah annoyed the outa me.

No i really just wanna know if Magnus is going to get shafted again. Which by the sounds of things he is, He has to win sometimes otherwise his moustache curling doesnt mean a thing

Thorpe's consistent and Kyme's alright. Or at least his supporting characters are alright, he seems to suffer from always doing crazy sh** with the mains.

Please ADB, never write a super sayain Space Marine character like Kyme. That was extremely silly, and we can't have that level of silliness again.

[Prot]

I'm a big fan of ADB, and this is my least favorite work of his to date. I said so from the moment my special order arrived.... BUT I never dove into any details. (Oddly enough Wade covered about half of them so I know I'm not alone.)

 

But the reason I am saying this is because I read a comment to the effect of: Some people may just want to take ADB down a notch because of his popularity.

 

To which I would reply: Many people won't say anything negative... period. Because mom always said, if you can't say anything nice, shut your pie hole. Or at least that's what I heard growing up.

 

Some people won't say anything negative just because it serves no purpose beyond airing your grievances with ... a book about futuristic army men. Also the very fact that ADB is so popular on these forums it will stop some people from saying anything for suffering the wrath of the ADB fan club.

 

At the end of the day, please be respectful. It's all just opinion. :)

[Wade Garrett]

Somehow, I am skeptical of the idea that "This bloke in the Colonies said some less than complementary things about my New York Times best selling novel that is going to allow me to build a new wing of my house made of solid money" counts for the purposes of "ADB is now taken down a peg."

 

;)

[Emperors Immortals]

I enjoyed this book, it had good structure and interesting concepts. If anything I'd say I didn't quite accept Khayons spirit companions, but that may be more my fault then the novel.

 

Im just hoping ADB touches on John Banville's Copernicus as a seer, 1k son, anything. Some of my fav work right there.

 

And ADB thankyou for sharing some of the idwas behind tbe novel, csan i ask what inspired the Arachnid queen and IW outpost? I really enjoyed the fsctionality it introduced.

[Marshal Rohr]

Somehow, I am skeptical of the idea that "This bloke in the Colonies said some less than complementary things about my New York Times best selling novel that is going to allow me to build a new wing of my house made of solid money" counts for the purposes of "ADB is now taken down a peg."

 

;)

Every time he gets a negative review he wipes away the tears with stacks of 100 pound notes.

[Perrin]

Somehow, I am skeptical of the idea that "This bloke in the Colonies said some less than complementary things about my New York Times best selling novel that is going to allow me to build a new wing of my house made of solid money" counts for the purposes of "ADB is now taken down a peg."

I think it's more the "Also the very fact that ADB is so popular on these forums it will stop some people from saying anything for suffering the wrath of the ADB fan club." part of Prot's post that is relevant.

There was a weird argument a few pages back, or maybe a different thread, with someone wanting to give this book a bad review just because it had gotten so many good ones, something like that.

Obviously that's wrong, but I think some people may be put off of writing negative criticisms of ADBs work because of his massive popularity on here, coupled with the fact that ADB will most likely see what they have written and might even respond. Maybe it's just me but there are sometimes posts that seem kinda... sycophantic?

[Ethrion]

It's a minor point but one that as far as I know hasn't been really cleared up but at what point do the Thousand Sons go from the red and silver to the cobalt and gold?

 

I know 'Visions of Heresy' shouldn't be relied upon as accurate but there is a picture in there (my avatar actually) of the Thousand Sons pre-terran invasion in blue armour. Khayon is apparently in blue throughout 'Talon of Horus'. In 'Ahriman: Exile' however Amon's circle are still in the red until Ahriman casts a spell of binding and they all change to blue.

 

Is it a Magnusite badge of loyalty to stay red while it's an Ahrimanite mark to turn blue? Is it a post-rubric mark to go blue or post-terran invasion? Or is it just a individual affectation unique to each sorcerer?

[Volt]

Also, my favorite thing about Talon of Horus has to be Lheor. I have to give a lot of points to ADB for his character for writing a likeable, sympathetic, sapient, sane, World Eater post Heresy. Not only do you never see that, I have to again emphasize the sapient point, as Khornate Cultists are almost always portrayed as GARBLE GARBLE MAIMKILLBURN GARBLE GARBLE opposed to having even the slightest shred of character to their name.

 

Instead Lheor feels very similar to a D&D style Barbarian who's looking for a good fight and wants to add another trophy to his fireplace.

[A D-B]

Somehow, I am skeptical of the idea that "This bloke in the Colonies said some less than complementary things about my New York Times best selling novel that is going to allow me to build a new wing of my house made of solid money" counts for the purposes of "ADB is now taken down a peg."

The one joke that always mystifies writers is the joke that they're rich. You always smile awkwardly and think "Wait, wait, they don't... really think that, do they?"

In all seriousness, as to the wider point, you get a wide spread of criticism with everything you release. Some of it will bother you, and most of it won't. Some of it is factually wrong, setting-wise ("ADB did X wrong about Chaos") which you know isn't true. Some of it you'll agree with (too many to list here, but I'm not a fan of my own work, so use your imagination). You ignore some of it because it'd take too long / be unnecessary to refute and you rely on the fact it seems plainly untrue to most readers ("Khayon is a special snowflake"; that one didn't make me angry because I thought it was funny - I can see why people would say it, but that's not the same thing as it being true). You make a mental note on the criticisms that interest you (many do!), ignore the ones that don't (many don't), then move on after hopefully learning something.

Somehow, I am skeptical of the idea that "This bloke in the Colonies said some less than complementary things about my New York Times best selling novel that is going to allow me to build a new wing of my house made of solid money" counts for the purposes of "ADB is now taken down a peg."

I think it's more the "Also the very fact that ADB is so popular on these forums it will stop some people from saying anything for suffering the wrath of the ADB fan club." part of Prot's post that is relevant.

There was a weird argument a few pages back, or maybe a different thread, with someone wanting to give this book a bad review just because it had gotten so many good ones, something like that.

Obviously that's wrong, but I think some people may be put off of writing negative criticisms of ADBs work because of his massive popularity on here, coupled with the fact that ADB will most likely see what they have written and might even respond.

I'm sure there's an edge of that, but it goes both ways. Remember, this is the internet. It often goes the other way significantly, with any artist or author. People relishing the chance to get to argue with the creator of something 'face to face'. People desperate to prove them wrong on some point of setting trivia. Etc, etc.

More often on other sites (and thankfully even then not all that often), but familiarity breeds contempt - it's the main reason pretty much every author I know (especially the licensed fiction ones) have always advised against posting publicly as much as I do. "They're not your friends. They'll take every chance they can get to make you look like a ****." The B&C is a great forum, but if you Google, say, the time I tried to explain the perfectly true fact that the Space Wolves weren't "better at fighting" than other Space Marines and how - in-universe rumour aside - they didn't kill the Lost Legions, you'll see 3-4 Space Wolf players desperate to shoot down everything I say and taking it all wildly personally. And I've seen it in Chaos discussions, too. So, no, it goes both ways. The internet always does.